Cowardly "No on Prop. 8" supporters in California?

[TrapsMcLats]

If it's so bad, why are you so upset about Prop. 8 passing? Perhaps, people are concerned about marriage being deteriorated FURTHER, who knows.

But, citing divorce rates doesn't help to make your point. Divorce is rampant, partially due to the concept of "no-fault" divorces. And, I agree with you about the relative ease in which marriage can be entered. But, what can be done about that? Do you propose mandatory marriage counseling? Some churches have that (i.e. they won't marry a couple, unless they undergo marriage counseling at their church). But, that can easily be circumvented.

And, if marriage counseling had to be a requirement, you might still complain, if the lion's share of that were done in churches. After all, what would be the principles discussed in marriage counseling, and what would be the divide between that done at a church and that done somewhere else?

EDIT: i misread what you said, but those who equate gays being able to marry with a further deterioration of the "institution of marriage"  do not believe in equal rights.

As culture progresses, we will see more of what is known as serial monogamy.  People just can't stay married, especially now that women have equal (or close to) financial opportunity.  Women aren't trapped by marriage anymore.  that is also a big part of the climb in divorce rates. 

[nycbull]

Umm, dunno f you live in california like me, but there are TONS of Mormons in the east bay (and all over).  Also, the Moron church donated shitloads of money to the 8 campaign (that doesn't look like separation of church and state to me).  can someone honestly tell me how this prop differs from dumbass rednecks saying," negroes can't have equal rights like me."

Anyone who voted for prop 8 is a moron, and does not believe in America.  Its pretty simple that equality is completely necessary to the American ideal.  How discrimination equates to a better society, i have yet to see.

absolutely, they put in like 80 million I heard....They're tax exempt status as a church should be investigated...

They are the most unethical people in the world. They should be more concerned about child abuse in their own "church" and the fact that a girl named Elizabeth Smart was almost killed and raped because she believed that a profit had walked into her room in the middle of the night and told her she was to be his wife because God said so. She believed that creep because the Mormons taught her to.

[CQ]

absolutely, they put in like 80 million I heard....They're tax exempt status as a church should be investigated...

Sad to see a church choose to fund the taking of people's rights, instead of spending that money on helping people and doing actual good.

[TrapsMcLats]

Sad to see a church choose to fund the taking of people's rights, instead of spending that money on helping people and doing actual good.

All churches are after is money and power, that is why they are so threatened by education and tolerance, it could potentially dethrone them.  They have faith, which is belief without reason.  We have the scientific method, which yields progress and belief within reason.

[nycbull]

The Mormons have ruined Southern California with their unabashed bad taste and gated ghetto housing slumls, they have raped the hills and destroyed the environment and then preach to people about GOD.

In Laguna Beach where my bf has a house, the Mormons up the street went out in the middle of the night to kill palm trees on other peoples property that were blocking their view to the ocean.  They are the most hypocritical self centered people on earth.

[loco]

I said above that blacks and latinos are massively machismo based cultures (like most uneducated people/cultures... hence the "billybob the redneck" comment made by someone else above), and don't agree with homosexuality because they feel threatened by it.  I don't particularly care for many black people, as the greatly choose to remain uneducated and blame someone else for their problems.

as for NAMBLA and beastiality, no... i don't want marriage to be made a mockery of, or for it to suit the needs of pedophiles.  Someone who knows (cuz i don't), do you have to be 18 to be married?

They also weren't the ones pumping in massive amounts of money into the Yes on 8 campaign.  black and latino people don't have money, you should know better

And blacks and latinos, due to their ignorance and lack of education, are irrational and violent (not racist, horrible truth).  I never saw one black or latino car driving around with Yes on 8 gear on them, but i saw a shitload of fat, white housewives with those stupid cartoon family stickers and a jesus fish on their car with a big yes on 8 sign in their read window.

I am not ignorant or hateful, i am informed and honest.  blacks and latinos have low voter registratiion and turnout, and did not have that great of an impact on this decision.  Its not my fault that heavily populated black and latino areas have high rates of violent crime. I call'am as i see'em.

TrapsMcLats,
Ironically, you come off as ignorant, uneducated, hateful and racist.  I do not like your racist stereotypical, negative generalization of Blacks and Latinos.

[TrapsMcLats]

TrapsMcLats,
Ironically, you come off as ignorant, uneducated, hateful and racist.  I do not like your racist stereotypical, negative generalization of Blacks and Latinos.

I'm not trying to deny any rights of theirs.  I am honest, will admit to that.  I have latino and black friends, and asian, polynesian, indian etc etc etc...  i see problems and i call people on it, simple as that.


Oh, and go into the iron triangle in richmond, CA, one of the most violent places in the country, and tell me what type of people are living there.  Just food for thought....  It ain't stereotyping  if I say i don't want to go into violent ghetto areas because the people there are violent.  It also isn't negative, its honest.  Most of the people living in ghettos are uneducated, a common factor amongst violent areas and minorities. 

[drkaje]

People need to stop pretending blacks and Mormons are the only reason things went the way they did.

[MCWAY]

I am not ignorant or hateful, i am informed and honest.  blacks and latinos have low voter registratiion and turnout, and did not have that great of an impact on this decision.  Its not my fault that heavily populated black and latino areas have high rates of violent crime. I call'am as i see'em.

That's funny. From the number shown on the news networks:

49% of White voters approved Prop. 8
49% of Asian voters did as well
53% of Latino voters gave it the nod.
70% of Black voters went for Prop. 8.

It's not my fault that gay/bisexual men have the highest rate of HIV/AIDS, either (or that the average life span of gays and lesbians is in the mid 40s). But that has nothing to do with the voters who approve Prop. 8, just as the crime rates of black and latino areas.

[TrapsMcLats]

People need to stop pretending blacks and Mormons are the only reason things went the way they did.

The mormons used classic fear tactics to get people thinking that schools would start teaching homosexuality.  I mean, fuck fucks sake, a person in the local paper wrote in today talking about Obama being an Arab terrorist.  People are dumb as shit and easily influenced.  Those commercials have a huge impact.  the between the lines story is yes, people are still not all that cool with homosexuality.  But the bottom line is that no one should be denied these basic rights.  Melissa Ethridge had a great quote yesterday, and i'm paraphrasing "if i'm not going to be treated like a full citizen of california, i'm not going to pay the 500k i do in taxes every year.  i could do better things with that money."  that actually makes sense to me.  I mean, why should she pay into a system that doesn't treat her as an equal?

[MCWAY]

People need to stop pretending blacks and Mormons are the only reason things went the way they did.

As I said, this covers the spectrum of race, gender, political affiliation, religious beliefs, and economic brackets.

But, once again, the blacks and Latino churches and neighborhoods go conspicuously unprotested. And, I don't see anyone storming Arnold's house, either.


Now that I think about it, I've yet to see any GetBig folk (who support gay "marriage") protest the great Arnold Schwarzenegger for vetoing that gay "marriage" bill TWICE.

[TrapsMcLats]

That's funny. From the number shown on the news networks:

49% of White voters approved Prop. 8
49% of Asian voters did as well
53% of Latino voters gave it the nod.
70% of Black voters went for Prop. 8.

It's not my fault that gay/bisexual men have the highest rate of HIV/AIDS, either (or that the average life span of gays and lesbians is in the mid 40s). But that has nothing to do with the voters who approve Prop. 8, just as the crime rates of black and latino areas.

But their overall voter turnout (low) did not impact the election that much.  They have low voter rates.  The crime rates were referenced as why i wouldn't want to go into a ghetto to protest.  You called us (no on 8 people) cowards and I gave you straight up info as to why i would stay away from those areas.

[TrapsMcLats]

As I said, this covers the spectrum of race, gender, political affiliation, religious beliefs, and economic brackets.

But, once again, the blacks and Latino churches and neighborhoods go conspicuously unprotested. And, I don't see anyone storming Arnold's house, either.


Now that I think about it, I've yet to see any GetBig folk (who support gay "marriage") protest the great Arnold Schwarzenegger for vetoing that gay "marriage" bill TWICE.

I can't blame him for trying to stay out of an issue thats not up to him to decide.  it is unfortunate that he doesn't haev the stones to stand up to his party and do what is best for his state.  he left it to the people, it will be repealed and replealed until its ratified in 4-12 years.

[MCWAY]

The mormons used classic fear tactics to get people thinking that schools would start teaching homosexuality.  I mean, fuck fucks sake, a person in the local paper wrote in today talking about Obama being an Arab terrorist.  People are dumb as shit and easily influenced.  Those commercials have a huge impact.  the between the lines story is yes, people are still not all that cool with homosexuality.  But the bottom line is that no one should be denied these basic rights.  Melissa Ethridge had a great quote yesterday, and i'm paraphrasing "if i'm not going to be treated like a full citizen of california, i'm not going to pay the 500k i do in taxes every year.  i could do better things with that money."  that actually makes sense to me.  I mean, why should she pay into a system that doesn't treat her as an equal?

No one being denied any basic rights. This is about defining marriage. Name one gay or lesbian who can't get married, if he/she follows the criteria, established in Prop. 8.

Furthermore, what stopped Ethridge (or any other Hollywood heavyweight) from starting an initiative of their own, to define marriage as "a union of any two people", instead of "a union between one man and one woman"? Apparently, it's never that important to them, UNTIL THEIR OPPONENTS put their own amendment on the ballot.

[TrapsMcLats]

No one being denied any basic rights. This is about defining marriage. Name one gay or lesbian who can't get married, if he/she follows the criteria, established in Prop. 8.

Furthermore, what stopped Ethridge (or any other Hollywood heavyweight) from starting an initiative of their own, to define marriage as "a union of any two people", instead of "a union between one man and one woman"? Apparently, it's never that important to them, UNTIL THEIR OPPONENTS put their own amendment on the ballot.

So, when women couldn't vote, that wasn't them being denied rights?  They just hadn't done enough about it yet?  yeah... intelligent arguement.

[garebear]

 I should write a letter to the LA "Liberal" Times and see what happens.  

I know what will happen. A team of editors will all read it and then have a quick debate. Finally, one of them will yell, "Stop the presses!"

Eventually, as a direct result of your writing, newspapers all over the country, nay, the world, will evolve and become better.

[MCWAY]

But their overall voter turnout (low) did not impact the election that much.  They have low voter rates.  The crime rates were referenced as why i wouldn't want to go into a ghetto to protest.  You called us (no on 8 people) cowards and I gave you straight up info as to why i would stay away from those areas.

In other words, the protestors would rather go to relatively quiet white neigbhorhoods and raise a ruckus there.

Gay protesters were vandalizing private property, stealing signs, and (in a handful of cases) assaulting people. Last time I checked, that was called CRIME.

[MCWAY]

All churches are after is money and power, that is why they are so threatened by education and tolerance, it could potentially dethrone them.  They have faith, which is belief without reason.  We have the scientific method, which yields progress and belief within reason.

Churches are hardly threatened by education, or did you forget that some of the colleges in this country were founded by churches and by Christians (i.e. Harvard, Princeton, etc.).

Once again, you're complaining about ignorance, hatred, and intolerance. Yet, you come up with tirades like this, regarding people with whom you disagree.

That makes you no better than the people you decry.

[TrapsMcLats]

Churches are hardly threatened by education, or did you forget that some of the colleges in this country were founded by churches and by Christians (i.e. Harvard, Princeton, etc.).

Once again, you're complaining about ignorance, hatred, and intolerance. Yet, you come up with tirades like this, regarding people with whom you disagree.

That makes you no better than the people you decry.

I believe in equality, i'm not trying to deny christians their right to go to church.

Here's your arguement:

My arguement is that if the state provides a document of marriage to any man and woman, they have to provide it for a man and man.  That is equality.  Who wants to get unioned?

[garebear]

The mormons used classic fear tactics to get people thinking that schools would start teaching homosexuality.  I mean, fuck fucks sake, a person in the local paper wrote in today talking about Obama being an Arab terrorist.  People are dumb as shit and easily influenced.  Those commercials have a huge impact.  the between the lines story is yes, people are still not all that cool with homosexuality.  But the bottom line is that no one should be denied these basic rights.  Melissa Ethridge had a great quote yesterday, and i'm paraphrasing "if i'm not going to be treated like a full citizen of california, i'm not going to pay the 500k i do in taxes every year.  i could do better things with that money."  that actually makes sense to me.  I mean, why should she pay into a system that doesn't treat her as an equal?

I like your posts, I must say, pretty much every one of them I read.

If gays are allowed to serve openly in the military this will also go a long way towards getting gay marriage 'legalized'. How can someone be willing to die for their country and not allowed to get married?

Another point of interest in this debate is that politicians are going on record as being discriminatory. I think this will look 'interesting' a little later on (20 years or so) when homosexual marriages are mainstream. There is going to be a price to pay for this.

As for your overall message, that banning gay marriage is denying rights to citizens, I agree 100%. It is a point of shame for the US.

[Hereford]

Allowing gay marriage makes the US a laughingstock of the world.

[MCWAY]

I believe in equality, i'm not trying to deny christians their right to go to church.

Here's your arguement:

My arguement is that if the state provides a document of marriage to any man and woman, they have to provide it for a man and man.  That is equality.  Who wants to get unioned?

Do they have to provide it to a man and two women, two women and man, three (or more) men, three (or more) women. Can children be added to the mix?

By your arguments, limiting marriage to two people makes you bigoted toward polygamists. Why not let kids get involved (after all, Mass. allows girls to marry at 12 with parental permission)?

[MCWAY]

So, when women couldn't vote, that wasn't them being denied rights?  They just hadn't done enough about it yet?  yeah... intelligent arguement.

Maybe, if you cease with the sarcasm and insults, you'll be able to read what I actually posted.

Once again, there was NOTHING stopping gay "marriage" supporters from starting initatives OF THEIR OWN, attempting to gather hundreds of thousands of signatures, and trying to get an amendment, defining marriage as "a union of any two people" on the ballot.

The only time they start voting about this issue is when their opponents have their own amendment, such as Prop. 8, to keep (or, in this case, re-establish) the definition of marriage as a union between a man and a woman.

[drkaje]

The mormons used classic fear tactics to get people thinking that schools would start teaching homosexuality.  I mean, fuck fucks sake, a person in the local paper wrote in today talking about Obama being an Arab terrorist.  People are dumb as shit and easily influenced.  Those commercials have a huge impact.  the between the lines story is yes, people are still not all that cool with homosexuality.  But the bottom line is that no one should be denied these basic rights.  Melissa Ethridge had a great quote yesterday, and i'm paraphrasing "if i'm not going to be treated like a full citizen of california, i'm not going to pay the 500k i do in taxes every year.  i could do better things with that money."  that actually makes sense to me.  I mean, why should she pay into a system that doesn't treat her as an equal?

That's funny, because one of the pre-school employees felt the need to inform my daughter about gay marriage.

If gay marriage becomes the norm how can it not end up being taught in school? Stop bullshitting us because we all know someone will argue that teaching about gay marriage in school about it will decrease prejudice and make things less stressful for the children of gay couples.

[TrapsMcLats]

That's funny, because one of the pre-school employees felt the need to inform my daughter about gay marriage.

If gay marriage becomes the norm how can it not end up being taught in school? Stop bullshitting us because we all know someone will argue that teaching about gay marriage in school about it will decrease prejudice and make things less stressful for the children of gay couples.

It won't matter what people teach your daughter, because she either will feel biochemical reactions when a man touches her hand or she'll feel that way when a woman touches her hand.  People are born that way.  you can't teach me to get a boner when a dude bends over in front of me  I never had to be taught to get a boner when a girl with a nice ass bent over in front of me.

Maybe, if you cease with the sarcasm and insults, you'll be able to read what I actually posted.

Once again, there was NOTHING stopping gay "marriage" supporters from starting initatives OF THEIR OWN, attempting to gather hundreds of thousands of signatures, and trying to get an amendment, defining marriage as "a union of any two people" on the ballot.

The only time they start voting about this issue is when their opponents have their own amendment, such as Prop. 8, to keep (or, in this case, re-establish) the definition of marriage as a union between a man and a woman.

.


well, it had been voted on by judges to make it legal... you do remember that don't you?