Cowardly "No on Prop. 8" supporters in California?

[MCWAY]

A lot has been made on the news of the protests by gay activists and their supporters, seething over the passing of Prop. 8, which once again defines marriage as union between a man and a woman.

Those protests have targeted a Mormon church there. There have been fights, vandalism, and intimidation.

But, here's the rub:

1) There ain't that many Mormons in California.

2) It's been stated long and loudly, that black voters (to the tune of 70%) voted for Prop. 8. And black voters have made it no secret that their overwhelming support of Barack Obama DOES NOT EQUATE to a support of gay "marriage". Yet, for some reason, I don't see gay protesters hiking up the streets of black neighborhoods and protesting in front of black churches. I wonder why!!!

3) We've seen footage of Hollywood celebrities fuming about what went down (Madonna, Sean Penn, Janice Dickinson, etc). But, apparently they have amnesia, as it's slipped their mind that one of their members, who just happens to be the governor of Hollywood's home, TWICE VETOED legislation that would have legalized gay "marriage". Yet, no mobs of homosexuals are coming after the Governator. I wonder why!!!

4) It's also known that 53% of Latino voters approve of Prop. 8. But, I've yet to hear reports of the barrios and razas being flooded with gay activist protesters. Again, I wonder why.


What happened to "equality"? If gay "marriage" supporters are so upset, then they should aim their frustration at ALL of the demographic groups, responsible for the passage of Prop. 8. But, it appears they prefer soft targets, as a white suburban Mormon church is far easier to attack, than black churches, Latino churches, and the govenor of the Golden state.

[Cap]

See, in the mind of black people it's okay to "discriminate" (I'm cool with Prop 8  ) against gays but not against blacks?  Lol, such flawed logic. 

[Straw Man]

Wasn't Arnold against prop 8?

[Cap]

Wasn't Arnold against prop 8?

I'll be honest, I'm not sure.  One of the commercials said he was and they also mentioned Obama, but then I read in the Liberal aka LA Times that gays were mad because Obama didn't take a firm stance on it.  I think gay marriage is like abortion, you will never really change how people think about it.

[TrapsMcLats]

Machismo based minorities, like blacks and latinos, do not like gays.  they cannot be reasoned with in this regard.  their cultures are based on masculinity.  Its true.

[TrapsMcLats]

A lot has been made on the news of the protests by gay activists and their supporters, seething over the passing of Prop. 8, which once again defines marriage as union between a man and a woman.

Those protests have targeted a Mormon church there. There have been fights, vandalism, and intimidation.

But, here's the rub:

1) There ain't that many Mormons in California.

2) It's been stated long and loudly, that black voters (to the tune of 70%) voted for Prop. 8. And black voters have made it no secret that their overwhelming support of Barack Obama DOES NOT EQUATE to a support of gay "marriage". Yet, for some reason, I don't see gay protesters hiking up the streets of black neighborhoods and protesting in front of black churches. I wonder why!!!

3) We've seen footage of Hollywood celebrities fuming about what went down (Madonna, Sean Penn, Janice Dickinson, etc). But, apparently they have amnesia, as it's slipped their mind that one of their members, who just happens to be the governor of Hollywood's home, TWICE VETOED legislation that would have legalized gay "marriage". Yet, no mobs of homosexuals are coming after the Governator. I wonder why!!!

4) It's also known that 53% of Latino voters approve of Prop. 8. But, I've yet to hear reports of the barrios and razas being flooded with gay activist protesters. Again, I wonder why.


What happened to "equality"? If gay "marriage" supporters are so upset, then they should aim their frustration at ALL of the demographic groups, responsible for the passage of Prop. 8. But, it appears they prefer soft targets, as a white suburban Mormon church is far easier to attack, than black churches, Latino churches, and the govenor of the Golden state.

Umm, dunno f you live in california like me, but there are TONS of Mormons in the east bay (and all over).  Also, the Moron church donated shitloads of money to the 8 campaign (that doesn't look like separation of church and state to me).  can someone honestly tell me how this prop differs from dumbass rednecks saying," negroes can't have equal rights like me."

Anyone who voted for prop 8 is a moron, and does not believe in America.  Its pretty simple that equality is completely necessary to the American ideal.  How discrimination equates to a better society, i have yet to see.

[Cap]

Machismo based minorities, like blacks and latinos, do not like gays.  they cannot be reasoned with in this regard.  their cultures are based on masculinity.  Its true.

So is it okay for Cletus or Billy Bob to say that their culture does not like and is not based on blacks?  They cannot be reasoned with in this regard.  It's true.

See what's ironic, especially in a liberal state like CA.  I should write a letter to the LA "Liberal" Times and see what happens.  Blacks can discriminate against whoever they want with impunity.  Makes me sick.

Umm, dunno f you live in california like me, but there are TONS of Mormons in the east bay (and all over).  Also, the Moron church donated shitloads of money to the 8 campaign (that doesn't look like separation of church and state to me).  can someone honestly tell me how this prop differs from dumbass rednecks saying," negroes can't have equal rights like me."

Anyone who voted for prop 8 is a moron, and does not believe in America.  Its pretty simple that equality is completely necessary to the American ideal.  How discrimination equates to a better society, i have yet to see.

Kinda like a bunch of racist/bigoted black people saying "homos can't have equal rights like me".  Hahaha

My argument about hypocritical blacks aside, I think people in CA look at it as a morality issue and they don't agree with it, and don't have to because homosexuality is still seen as a choice by people. 

[MCWAY]

Umm, dunno f you live in california like me, but there are TONS of Mormons in the east bay (and all over).  Also, the Moron church donated shitloads of money to the 8 campaign (that doesn't look like separation of church and state to me).  can someone honestly tell me how this prop differs from dumbass rednecks saying," negroes can't have equal rights like me."

No, My home's in Florida, where the marriage amendment (Amend. 2) passed as well. There is no "separation of Church and State" in the U.S. constitution. Furthermore, this isn't about backing a political candidate or party; it's about a moral and social issue, which church members are more than allowed to speak their mind, via the ballot box.

Equal rights means that everyone can participate in the same institutions. This is about the institution of marriage (and how it's defined). That institution in CA is defined, once again, as a union between one man and one woman. Please tell me who is NOT ALLOWED to participate in such. Gays may not want to do so, based on their sexual PREFERENCE; but that doesn't mean they can't.

Anyone who voted for prop 8 is a moron, and does not believe in America.  Its pretty simple that equality is completely necessary to the American ideal.  How discrimination equates to a better society, i have yet to see.

I beg to differ. Again, this isn't about a party or candidate. Democrats, Republicans whites, blacks, Latinos, Asians, rich, middle-class, poor, Christian, non-Christian, young, middle-aged, and old ALL voted on this issue in California (as well as Florida, Arizona, and the other 27 states that have such amendments).

[Straw Man]

No, My home's in Florida, where the marriage amendment (Amend. 2) passed as well. There is no "separation of Church and State" in the U.S. constitution. Furthermore, this isn't about backing a political candidate or party; it's about a moral and social issue, which church members are more than allowed to speak their mind, via the ballot box.

Equal rights means that everyone can participate in the same institutions. This is about the institution of marriage (and how it's defined). That institution in CA is defined, once again, as a union between one man and one woman. Please tell me who is NOT ALLOWED to participate in such. Gays may not want to do so, based on their sexual PREFERENCE; but that doesn't mean they can't.



I beg to differ. Again, this isn't about a party or candidate. Democrats, Republicans whites, blacks, Latinos, Asians, rich, middle-class, poor, Christian, non-Christian, young, middle-aged, and old ALL voted on this issue in California (as well as Florida, Arizona, and the other 27 states that have such amendments).

?

[MCWAY]

So is it okay for Cletus or Billy Bob to say that their culture does not like and is not based on blacks?  They cannot be reasoned with in this regard.  It's true.

See what's ironic, especially in a liberal state like CA.  I should write a letter to the LA "Liberal" Times and see what happens.  Blacks can discriminate against whoever they want with impunity.  Makes me sick.
 Kinda like a bunch of racist/bigoted black people saying "homos can't have equal rights like me".  Hahaha

Well, it appears that homosexuals can do the same, if you will, as lamented by a black lesbian (in an Op-Ed from the LA Times), who claims that white gays are quick to hit blacks with racist comments.

From "No-on-8's White Bias":

The first problem with Proposition 8 was the issue of marriage itself. The white gay community never successfully communicated to blacks why it should matter to us above everything else -- not just to me as a lesbian but to blacks generally. The way I see it, the white gay community is banging its head against the glass ceiling of a room called equality, believing that a breakthrough on marriage will bestow on it parity with heterosexuals. But the right to marry does nothing to address the problems faced by both black gays and black straights. Does someone who is homeless or suffering from HIV but has no healthcare, or newly out of prison and unemployed, really benefit from the right to marry someone of the same sex?

Second is the issue of civil rights. White gays often wonder aloud why blacks, of all people, won't support their civil rights. There is a real misunderstanding by the white gay community about the term. Proponents of gay marriage fling it around as if it is a one-size-fits-all catchphrase for issues of fairness.

But the black civil rights movement was essentially born out of and driven by the black church; social justice and religion are inextricably intertwined in the black community. To many blacks, civil rights are grounded in Christianity -- not something separate and apart from religion but synonymous with it. To the extent that the issue of gay marriage seemed to be pitted against the church, it was going to be a losing battle in my community.....

There's nothing a white gay person can tell me when it comes to how I as a black lesbian should talk to my community about this issue. If and when I choose to, I know how to say what needs to be said. Many black gays just haven't been convinced that this movement for marriage is about anything more than the white gays who fund it (and who, we often find, are just as racist and clueless when it comes to blacks as they claim blacks are homophobic).


http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-cannick8-2008nov08,0,3295255.story

My argument about hypocritical blacks aside, I think people in CA look at it as a morality issue and they don't agree with it, and don't have to because homosexuality is still seen as a choice by people. 

One black preacher put it this way, "Don't confuse my skin with your sin."

[TrapsMcLats]

No, My home's in Florida, where the marriage amendment (Amend. 2) passed as well. There is no "separation of Church and State" in the U.S. constitution. Furthermore, this isn't about backing a political candidate or party; it's about a moral and social issue, which church members are more than allowed to speak their mind, via the ballot box.

Equal rights means that everyone can participate in the same institutions. This is about the institution of marriage (and how it's defined). That institution in CA is defined, once again, as a union between one man and one woman. Please tell me who is NOT ALLOWED to participate in such. Gays may not want to do so, based on their sexual PREFERENCE; but that doesn't mean they can't.



I beg to differ. Again, this isn't about a party or candidate. Democrats, Republicans whites, blacks, Latinos, Asians, rich, middle-class, poor, Christian, non-Christian, young, middle-aged, and old ALL voted on this issue in California (as well as Florida, Arizona, and the other 27 states that have such amendments).

Sexual PREFERENCE has no bearing here.  i do not see why anyone would PREFER to be discriminatd against.  If you think homosexuality is a choice, chances are you are an idiot and not very educated.  The fact of this is that educated (yeah, we're smarter than you, we don't believe in god, and we're right) people all agree that homosexuality is a byproduct of evolution.  Sexual ORIENTATION (that which you are born with) is being discriminated against.  Thats why I'm marching in Sacramento tomorrow.  the right that my girlfriend and I have to marry should not be different from anyone else.  What is next, people saying that marriage is only between a christian man and woman?   If the religious right gets their way, this isnt far off (like stem cell research being constricted).

[MCWAY]

?

Correction: Democrats, Republicans whites, blacks, Latinos, Asians, rich, middle-class, poor, Christian, non-Christian, young, middle-aged, and old ALL voted on this issue in California (as DID THE CITIZENS of Florida, Arizona, and the other 27 states that have such amendments, voted on this issue).

[Straw Man]

Correction: Democrats, Republicans whites, blacks, Latinos, Asians, rich, middle-class, poor, Christian, non-Christian, young, middle-aged, and old ALL voted on this issue in California (as DID THE CITIZENS of Florida, Arizona, and the other 27 states that have such amendments, voted on this issue).

I'm only aware of  ~ 3 or 4

what are you referring to?

[MCWAY]

Sexual PREFERENCE has no bearing here.  i do not see why anyone would PREFER to be discriminatd against.  If you think homosexuality is a choice, chances are you are an idiot and not very educated.  The fact of this is that educated (yeah, we're smarter than you, we don't believe in god, and we're right) people all agree that homosexuality is a byproduct of evolution.  Sexual ORIENTATION (that which you are born with) is being discriminated against.  Thats why I'm marching in Sacramento tomorrow.  the right that my girlfriend and I have to marry should not be different from anyone else.  What is next, people saying that marriage is only between a christian man and woman?   If the religious right gets their way, this isnt far off (like stem cell research being constricted).

Whether you're allegedly smarter than those with whom you disagree is subject to debate. You mentioned you and your girlfriend. You're a man; she's a woman. That meets the requirements of the marriage law. You could be as gay as Elton John; it doesn't matter. It certainly doesn't matter for women, as a number of "lesbians" revert to being with men. If they bring one to the church/or the courthouse, they can get hitched.

Furthermore, why are you complaining about the "religious right". Last time I checked, California was the LAST place where the "religious right" was much of a force. How many DEMOCRATS (hardly members of that demographic) voted for Prop. 8, again?

[MCWAY]

I'm only aware of  ~ 3 or 4

what are you referring to?

I'm referrring to ALL of the marriage amendments that have been passed over the last several years, not just to the three that were on the ballot in 2008.

[Cap]

Sexual PREFERENCE has no bearing here.  i do not see why anyone would PREFER to be discriminatd against.  If you think homosexuality is a choice, chances are you are an idiot and not very educated.  The fact of this is that educated (yeah, we're smarter than you, we don't believe in god, and we're right) people all agree that homosexuality is a byproduct of evolution.  Sexual ORIENTATION (that which you are born with) is being discriminated against.  Thats why I'm marching in Sacramento tomorrow.  the right that my girlfriend and I have to marry should not be different from anyone else.  What is next, people saying that marriage is only between a christian man and woman?   If the religious right gets their way, this isnt far off (like stem cell research being constricted).

Are you cool with 3o year olds marrying 12 year old boys or girls?  Or animals (Clerks 2  )?  

Traps, while you are pointing at the religious right you might as well swing that judgemental pendulum to the religious left of BLACK people who turned out to deny the people with a preference for same sex, the right to vote.

[TrapsMcLats]

Whether you're allegedly smarter than those with whom you disagree is subject to debate. You mentioned you and your girlfriend. You're a man; she's a woman. That meets the requirements of the marriage law. You could be as gay as Elton John; it doesn't matter. It certainly doesn't matter for women, as a number of "lesbians" revert to being with men. If they bring one to the church/or the courthouse, they can get hitched.

Furthermore, why are you complaining about the "religious right". Last time I checked, California was the LAST place where the "religious right" was much of a force. How many DEMOCRATS (hardly members of that demographic) voted for Prop. 8, again?

Umm, how many lesbians go back to men?  That sounds like prop 8 propoganda to me.  I actually know of a few men who got married, had kids and then ended up gay and with a long time partner.  Hmm... shit, he got married.  The RELIGIOUS RIGHT came in and flooded california with 50 million worth of false information (at least the mormon chruch did, or 40 million, some ridiculous number).

And how can you really be this into the "institution of marriage" considering you can get hitched while intoxicated in vegas for 200 bux with the correct paper work.  Marriage has an over 50% divorce rate, and the average marriage lasts something like less that five years these days.  that doesn't sound like much on an institution. It sounds like something every person has a right to do.

[TrapsMcLats]

Are you cool with 3o year olds marrying 12 year old boys or girls?  Or animals (Clerks 2  )?  

Traps, while you are pointing at the religious right you might as well swing that judgemental pendulum to the religious left of BLACK people who turned out to deny the people with a preference for same sex, the right to vote.

I said above that blacks and latinos are massively machismo based cultures (like most uneducated people/cultures... hence the "billybob the redneck" comment made by someone else above), and don't agree with homosexuality because they feel threatened by it.  I don't particularly care for many black people, as the greatly choose to remain uneducated and blame someone else for their problems.

as for NAMBLA and beastiality, no... i don't want marriage to be made a mockery of, or for it to suit the needs of pedophiles.  Someone who knows (cuz i don't), do you have to be 18 to be married?

[Cap]

I said above that blacks and latinos are massively machismo based cultures (like most uneducated people/cultures... hence the "billybob the redneck" comment made by someone else above), and don't agree with homosexuality because they feel threatened by it.  I don't particularly care for many black people, as the greatly choose to remain uneducated and blame someone else for their problems.

as for NAMBLA and beastiality, no... i don't want marriage to be made a mockery of, or for it to suit the needs of pedophiles.  Someone who knows (cuz i don't), do you have to be 18 to be married?

I respect your position but you do see the contradictions that exist because of that right?  They engage in the same hatred they preach against.  I don't particularly care about gay rights but find it funny coming from black people, and nobody talks about it in the media.

I think prop 8 is looked at by some as a slippery slope of what will be allowed in marriage.

Marriage age http://www.coolnurse.com/marriage_laws.htm

[TrapsMcLats]

I respect your position but you do see the contradictions that exist because of that right?  They engage in the same hatred they preach against.  I don't particularly care about gay rights but find it funny coming from black people, and nobody talks about it in the media.

I think prop 8 is looked at by some as a slippery slope of what will be allowed in marriage.

Marriage age http://www.coolnurse.com/marriage_laws.htm

Yeah, well marriage is already going down a slippery slope with the massive failure rate.  I do see the massive contradictions, but thats not gay people's fault, thats the black people's ignorance.  Black people should've been rioting in teh streets for gay rights.  where was jesse jackson on that one?

[MCWAY]

Are you cool with 3o year olds marrying 12 year old boys or girls?  Or animals (Clerks 2  )?  

Ironically enough, in the first state that legalized gay "marriage" (Massachusettes), girls can get married at age 12.

Traps, while you are pointing at the religious right you might as well swing that judgemental pendulum to the religious left of BLACK people who turned out to deny the people with a preference for same sex, the right to vote.

They had the right to vote. It's just that the "Yes" votes outnumbered the "No" votes on Prop. 8. But, that goes to what I said earlier.

I don't see masses of gay protesters, headed to South Central LA, or other black neighborhoods, or to the razas and suburbs, loaded with Latino voters. No Baptist, Pentecostal, or Lutheran churches are being vandalized by angry mobs of gays and lesbians.

[TrapsMcLats]

Ironically enough, in the first state that legalized gay "marriage" (Massachusettes), girls can get married at age 12.


They had the right to vote. It's just that the "Yes" votes outnumbered the "No" votes on Prop. 8. But, that goes to what I said earlier.

I don't see masses of gay protesters, headed to South Central LA, or other black neighborhoods, or to the razas and suburbs, loaded with Latino voters. No Baptist, Pentecostal, or Lutheran churches are being vandalized by angry mobs of gays and lesbians.

They also weren't the ones pumping in massive amounts of money into the Yes on 8 campaign.  black and latino people don't have money, you should know better

And blacks and latinos, due to their ignorance and lack of education, are irrational and violent (not racist, horrible truth).  I never saw one black or latino car driving around with Yes on 8 gear on them, but i saw a shitload of fat, white housewives with those stupid cartoon family stickers and a jesus fish on their car with a big yes on 8 sign in their read window.

[MCWAY]

Umm, how many lesbians go back to men?  That sounds like prop 8 propoganda to me.  I actually know of a few men who got married, had kids and then ended up gay and with a long time partner.  Hmm... shit, he got married.  The RELIGIOUS RIGHT came in and flooded california with 50 million worth of false information (at least the mormon chruch did, or 40 million, some ridiculous number).

And how can you really be this into the "institution of marriage" considering you can get hitched while intoxicated in vegas for 200 bux with the correct paper work.  Marriage has an over 50% divorce rate, and the average marriage lasts something like less that five years these days.  that doesn't sound like much on an institution. It sounds like something every person has a right to do.

If it's so bad, why are you so upset about Prop. 8 passing? Perhaps, people are concerned about marriage being deteriorated FURTHER, who knows.

But, citing divorce rates doesn't help to make your point. Divorce is rampant, partially due to the concept of "no-fault" divorces. And, I agree with you about the relative ease in which marriage can be entered. But, what can be done about that? Do you propose mandatory marriage counseling? Some churches have that (i.e. they won't marry a couple, unless they undergo marriage counseling at their church). But, that can easily be circumvented.

And, if marriage counseling had to be a requirement, you might still complain, if the lion's share of that were done in churches. After all, what would be the principles discussed in marriage counseling, and what would be the divide between that done at a church and that done somewhere else?

[MCWAY]

They also weren't the ones pumping in massive amounts of money into the Yes on 8 campaign.  black and latino people don't have money, you should know better

And blacks and latinos, due to their ignorance and lack of education, are irrational and violent (not racist, horrible truth).  I never saw one black or latino car driving around with Yes on 8 gear on them, but i saw a shitload of fat, white housewives with those stupid cartoon family stickers and a jesus fish on their car with a big yes on 8 sign in their read window.

How cute!! When you can't come up with a valid argument, you fall on the tried (or should I say "tired") spiel, of "we're smart; they're stupid".

It doesn't matter who supposedly pumped massive amounts of money into the campaign (as about $40 million went into BOTH sides), or who had stickers and fishes on their cars, it's the blacks and Latinos that pushed Prop. 8 over the top.

Now, what was that you were saying about ignorance and hate, again? 

[TrapsMcLats]

How cute!! When you can't come up with a valid argument, you fall on the tried (or should I say "tired") spiel, of "we're smart; they're stupid".

It doesn't matter who supposedly pumped massive amounts of money into the campaign (as about $40 million went into BOTH sides), or who had stickers and fishes on their cars, it's the blacks and Latinos that pushed Prop. 8 over the top.

Now, what was that you were saying about ignorance and hate, again? 

I am not ignorant or hateful, i am informed and honest.  blacks and latinos have low voter registratiion and turnout, and did not have that great of an impact on this decision.  Its not my fault that heavily populated black and latino areas have high rates of violent crime. I call'am as i see'em.