This just shows it doesnt matter how much you know if your genetics sucks.

[wavelength]

Lol

not he is not. he is leaner, that's it.
he is not bigger onstage, you guys should try competing you would understand what I mean

Hahahaha, Stavi laying the smack down on the clueless!

[spinnis]

Very impressive in person, saw him at a contest.  I don't doubt that he is clean; his off season pics look exactly as they should-like a clean guy with roughly 12-20%bf.  You look smaller when you are leaner, what do you expect?

ps. The point of lifting heavy weights even if you don't look like anything is because lifting heavy weights is fun and makes you feel good.  

And then you tear a muscle and your "carer" is ruined. but hey, as long as it makes you feel good  

[TommyBoy]

if one on this board is lifetime natty and can produce better pics, that would be interesting

I do believe we have lifetime naturals with better pics, but not many. All I'm debating is the question of HIS lifetime natural status. I am not one quick to say "ZOMG AAS ALL DRUGS" because I don't believe ANYONE could be all drugs (there is always hard work in there somewhere)...but I can't help but think he may have had hormonal assistance at one point based on those pics. I'm a lifetime natural and do believe some of the pics I've posted are better than his post-op...key word, post-op. Not his other contest pics.

I'm referring to the pics BEFORE injury at his contest and the ones AFTER right before his contest. I am inclined to believe muscle memory would serve him better if he were a lifetime natural.

[Stavios]

does he look the same size to you?
he has no chest offseason

his chest looks small because his stomach is bigger and has fat all over it, and has fat over the chest too
so we don't see a gasp under his chest or else if would look just as big as when he is onstage

[wavelength]

I do believe we have lifetime naturals with better pics, but not many. All I'm debating is the question of HIS lifetime natural status. I am not one quick to say "ZOMG AAS ALL DRUGS" because I don't believe ANYONE could be all drugs (there is always hard work in there somewhere)...but I can't help but think he may have had hormonal assistance at one point based on those pics. I'm a lifetime natural and do believe some of the pics I've posted are better than his post-op...key word, post-op. Not his other contest pics.

Yes of course, the first question is if he really is life time natty (which I asked in this thread).

If he is, I don't think anyone can produce better pics than his contest pics.

[Stavios]

Yes of course, the first question is if he really is life time natty (which I asked in this thread).

If he is, I don't think anyone can produce better pics than his contest pics.

spot on, as usual 

[Swedish Viking]

And then you tear a muscle and your "carer" is ruined. but hey, as long as it makes you feel good  

  I'm a lifetime natural(did take pro hormones though when they first came out), I've torn a muscle 4x, and I've come to understand that the only people that tear muscles are the ones that make chronic training mistakes.  Plenty of people lift plenty heavy without getting injured. These are the well experienced/well educated/very intuitive.

[Noel Fuller]

When did he break his right clavicle

[Boost]

You can't knock his dedication
From the videos of him on youtube he trains real hard and sticks to a flawless diet.
Its just his genetic muscle shape and bone structure that are holding him back which is kinda dissapointing.

Combine Layne Norton's work ethic with Cormier's genetics and you would be looking at a multiple O winner

[spinnis]

 I'm a lifetime natural(did take pro hormones though when they first came out), I've torn a muscle 4x, and I've come to understand that the only people that tear muscles are the ones that make chronic training mistakes.  Plenty of people lift plenty heavy without getting injured. These are the well experienced/well educated/very intuitive.

then your nat a LIFETIME natty.

[Swedish Viking]

Yes of course, the first question is if he really is life time natty (which I asked in this thread).

If he is, I don't think anyone can produce better pics than his contest pics.

 
   He's not the greatest natural of all time.  He might be one day, who know's, but not yet.  There are a lot of genetic freaks out there, guys with size 18 shoes, have 18.5 inch arms, and weigh 230lbs relatively lean after having only lifted for highschool football.

[TommyBoy]

Yes of course, the first question is if he really is life time natty (which I asked in this thread).

If he is, I don't think anyone can produce better pics than his contest pics.

Ahh, gotcha.

[Swedish Viking]

then your nat a LIFETIME natty.

  That depends on which country you've lived in.  That's still considered lifetime natural in the states and you can compete as such.  In Sweden, it's otherwise.

[wavelength]

He's not the greatest natural of all time.  He might be one day, who know's, but not yet.  There are a lot of genetic freaks out there, guys with size 18 shoes, have 18.5 inch arms, and weigh 230lbs relatively lean after having only lifted for highschool football.

Problem only is, you never know if someone is really 100% lifetime natural (no pro hormones, AAS, GH, etc.). My guess is that 90% of "natties" lie.

[wavelength]

  That depends on which country you've lived in.  That's still considered lifetime natural in the states and you can compete as such.  In Sweden, it's otherwise.

But generally it would not be considered lifetime natty.

You got an amazing physique BTW considering you only took pro hormones.

[Stavios]

layne would win the mr.getbig

[spinnis]

layne would win the mr.getbig

Daddy W would win after 6 months of traing and eating correctly, he would destroy a natural pro even at a 6"6 frame.

[Swedish Viking]

Problem only is, you never know if someone is really 100% lifetime natural (no pro hormones, AAS, GH, etc.). My guess is that 90% of "natties" lie.

 Maybe I'm naive, but I don't think it's that high.  I would feel like a total idiot lying about that.  I know some do though.  Nonetheless, that's why I made a point of using the shoe size example-some people just damn big and statistically speaking, a certain small amount of them are going to do bodybuilding.  At my last job for instance, there was a guy that was 6'2", 240lbs or so, easy 18" arms, with like size 18 shoes and arms so long he could friggin scratch his knees without bending down, pastor at a church, was very negative towards drug use.  He could have been using, I know, but I don't think he was.  I think he was just a damn big dude.  

[Pecs]

do other natural pro look like that in the off season??

[wavelength]

Daddy W would win after 6 months of traing and eating correctly, he would destroy a natural pro even at a 6"6 frame.

He ain't lifetime natty (AFAIK) and I still disagree.

[Method101]

he tore his pec, maybe he looks like shit because he can't train properly.

[Swedish Viking]

But generally it would not be considered lifetime natty.

You got an amazing physique BTW considering you only took pro hormones.

  Well competitively speaking, it's still very allowed-I took them right when they came out in like 98 or whatever, which is before the cutoff.  But alright, you can define it however you'd like, I'm fine with that-everyone has their standards.  Having never taken steroids, I don't know just how effective they are, but after having been in this 'business' for as long as I have now and been on GETBIG for as long as I have, I get the feeling that they are considerably more effective that pro hormones ever were and are going to be.

[wavelength]

Maybe I'm naive, but I don't think it's that high.  I would feel like a total idiot lying about that.  I know some do though.  Nonetheless, that's why I made a point of using the shoe size example-some people just damn big and statistically speaking, a certain small amount of them are going to do bodybuilding.  At my last job for instance, there was a guy that was 6'2", 240lbs or so, easy 18" arms, with like size 18 shoes and arms so long he could friggin scratch his knees without bending down, pastor at a church, was very negative towards drug use.  He could have been using, I know, but I don't think he was.  I think he was just a damn big dude.

As I said, people lie about things they're uncomfortable with. And IMO a physique can only be assessed correctly when under 8% BF.

[wavelength]

 Well competitively speaking, it's still very allowed-I took them right when they came out in like 98 or whatever, which is before the cutoff.  But alright, you can define it however you'd like, I'm fine with that-everyone has their standards.  Having never taken steroids, I don't know just how effective they are, but after having been in this 'business' for as long as I have now and been on GETBIG for as long as I have, I get the feeling that they are considerably more effective that pro hormones ever were and are going to be.

No doubt, and as I said, amazing physique!

[Boost]

Maybe I'm naive, but I don't think it's that high.  I would feel like a total idiot lying about that.  I know some do though.  Nonetheless, that's why I made a point of using the shoe size example-some people just damn big and statistically speaking, a certain small amount of them are going to do bodybuilding.  At my last job for instance, there was a guy that was 6'2", 240lbs or so, easy 18" arms, with like size 18 shoes and arms so long he could friggin scratch his knees without bending down, pastor at a church, was very negative towards drug use.  He could have been using, I know, but I don't think he was.  I think he was just a damn big dude.  

People don't wanna believe that some guys do have incredible genetics and don't even train.
You have all seen guys walking round with giant calves or forearms that have never done a calf raise or a wrist curl in their life.

Alot of people who train jsut don't want to believe that there are people out there....that look better than them.....without even training