The Republican idea factory has dried up

[a_joker10]

The damage is done.

And all it took to make it better was 600+ billion dollars, 4100 american lives, 100,000+ dead kids, women and men, and some 40,000 wounded us soldiers and ruined country....not to mention the strain on each soldier's domestic life--relatives and all.

Shit, even the barest risk/reward analysis shows the Iraq debacle was flop.

It depends on the next 4 to 5 years.
If a stable ally appears in the region next to Iran and Syria then it would a major success.

[Decker]

It depends on the next 4 to 5 years.
If a stable ally appears in the region next to Iran and Syria then it would a major success.

Not in 4 years and not in 50 years.

The dead are still dead and the billions still wasted and the middle east is still a shit hole.

[a_joker10]

Not in 4 years and not in 50 years.

The dead are still dead and the billions still wasted and the middle east is still a shit hole.

I see it as a success now.
Heck cities that never had services like potable water or sanitary sewer are receiving them.

Oh well to each there own.

[Arnold jr]

I see it as a success now.
Heck cities that never had services like potable water or sanitary sewer are receiving them.

Oh well to each there own.

It's a useless arguement. Those who are as adamantly apposed to the Iraq war as Decker will never see what you or I see. They can't.

These people are blinded by an idea of all man kind living in harmony on gum drop lane in lolly pop city. If we can just all agree to hold hands and get along, if we just try it all the bad monsters will go away and we can sing and rejoice and frolic in the marshmallow patch.

Unfortunately, that's not real life or the real world. The real world is an evil place made up of many evil people who could give a rats ass about peaceful ideology. The real world is made up of evil people who you cannot talk to, you can't reason with, you cannot even get them to consider your side of the arguement.

[DIVISION]

It's true.  No message.  No leader. 

The Republicans are lost.....

They don't have an Obama on their side.

All they have are factions.


DIV

[Straw Man]

The Republicans are lost.....

They don't have an Obama on their side.

All they have are factions.


DIV

maybe they should lean farther to the right

that might work

[Parker]

I have already posted why I think Iraq is better off without Saddam.
That they have more power, more drink water, more sanitary sewer services.
That the ethnic cleansing is now largely subsided for the first time in over 20 years.

If Bush is judged solely by Iraq, I would be one of the very few that said he did he right thing.
Many Americans suffered for this, but in the end the US military and its allies performed valiantly, through some of the most trying domestic times for the military.

So much better, that it was questioned whether a dictator that answered to the US would be a thesable option now.

[Dos Equis]

The Republicans are lost.....

They don't have an Obama on their side.

All they have are factions.


DIV

I think both parties are suffering from the same problem (no message), but Democrats now have their leader.  I don't view this election the same as 94.  Republicans actually had a theme and ran on that theme.  This election was all about running against Bush, with a huge boost from the war (in 06) and the economic meltdown in 08.   

[DIVISION]

I think both parties are suffering from the same problem (no message), but Democrats now have their leader.  I don't view this election the same as 94.  Republicans actually had a theme and ran on that theme.  This election was all about running against Bush, with a huge boost from the war (in 06) and the economic meltdown in 08.   

This election was a referendum on Bush -or- Obama.

McCain lost because he had no message to promote other than to vote against Obama which isn't a message at all.

I honestly believe that if he'd ran as the McCain of '00, he'd have had a much better shot.

When he sold his soul to the Republican base, he already lost the election.

Independents and Reagan democrats loved the McCain who bucked the establishment but once he BECAME the establishment there was nothing to run against, therefore he lost whatever edge he had.

He tried to run as the change agent in a year against the ultimate change agent in Obama and it was a failed strategy.

The selection of Palin was the final nail in his coffin.

Initially she boosted his candidacy, but she also failed miserably among suburban whites which is the main reason why Obama won the battle ground states.

I cannot think of a worse candidate than Palin in terms of experience for VP with the exception of Dan Quayle.

McCain ended up looking senile, having to clean up his mess......


DIV

[Decker]

It's a useless arguement. Those who are as adamantly apposed to the Iraq war as Decker will never see what you or I see. They can't.

These people are blinded by an idea of all man kind living in harmony on gum drop lane in lolly pop city. If we can just all agree to hold hands and get along, if we just try it all the bad monsters will go away and we can sing and rejoice and frolic in the marshmallow patch.

Unfortunately, that's not real life or the real world. The real world is an evil place made up of many evil people who could give a rats ass about peaceful ideology. The real world is made up of evil people who you cannot talk to, you can't reason with, you cannot even get them to consider your side of the arguement.

So we fight evil with evil?  That's showing them!

[Arnold jr]

So we fight evil with evil?  That's showing them!

Fighting evil by way of force is not evil. If you see a man beating and raping a woman and you walk up and hit him in the face with a bat, does this make you evil? No, it made you a responsible human being who did the right thing.

[Decker]

Fighting evil by way of force is not evil. If you see a man beating and raping a woman and you walk up and hit him in the face with a bat, does this make you evil? No, it made you a responsible human being who did the right thing.

I do agree with that.

Who did Iraq attack?

[stormshadow]

How does capitalism engender superpower status?

I thought that our country had an abundance of natural resources and a representative democracy that made all of old Europe's governments obsolete and undesirable.

No we do not.

[Arnold jr]

I do agree with that.

Who did Iraq attack?

We attacked the regime of Iraq, an evil regime. Not exactly the same as Bosnia but similar aspects.

In Iraq after the fall of the evil regime, we stayed to fight evil terrorist...not the law abiding good Iraqi people.

Yes, some good Iraqi people have suffered from what's happened, but most would agree the country is better off as a whole then it was before.

[Decker]

We attacked the regime of Iraq, an evil regime. Not exactly the same as Bosnia but similar aspects.

In Iraq after the fall of the evil regime, we stayed to fight evil terrorist...not the law abiding good Iraqi people.

Yes, some good Iraqi people have suffered from what's happened, but most would agree the country is better off as a whole then it was before.

The evil must be quantified in accordance with our use of JUSTIFIED force.  We can't attack unless Iraq attacked us, an ally or our property interest or, if pursuant to UN authority, to stop an ongoing genocide.

None of that happened.

The terrorists that attacked us were in Pakistan and not Iraq.