Author Topic: Detroit Is Tanking, But Toyota's in Trouble, Too  (Read 851 times)

Al Doggity

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Detroit Is Tanking, But Toyota's in Trouble, Too
« on: November 12, 2008, 07:46:47 PM »
Read the auto makers thread and was reminded of this story. Interesting.

http://blog.wired.com/cars/2008/11/gm-and-ford-may.html

Everyone knows General Motors, Ford and Chrysler are in deep, deep trouble. Cratering sales, credit downgrades and cash reserves that are dwindling faster than a keg at a frat party have some analysts saying we may see one or two of the Big Three go down for good. Critics like to say Detroit's getting what it deserves because the Japanese build better cars, but guess what -- Toyota isn't looking so great these days, either.

Toyota's stock nosedived 17 percent last week -- its greatest decline in 18 years -- after the company announced it will see an operating profit of just $6.9 billion, a 73.6 percent decline over last year. That's far worse than expected, and it underscores not only the dismal state of the domestic auto market but some strategic mistakes Toyota made on its way to becoming the biggest automaker in the world.

"Toyota has become used to carrying excessive investment, and this has left it vulnerable in a downsizing," Takaki Nakasishi, a J.P. Morgan Securities analyst, told Reuters. "It's important to recognize that the current steep decline in Toyota's earnings is not only a cyclical problem -- the downturn has been exacerbated by its own structural problems."

If Toyota's in trouble, it means a global economic meltdown that has sent auto sales tumbling 32 percent in October alone could shake the entire auto industry to its core.

Toyota has been showing Detroit how it's done for almost two decades now, racking up eight consecutive years of profit growth and consistently delivering profit margins that make competitors drool. For years it seemed the company could do no wrong, cranking out successful cars like the Camry and Prius. Taking advantage of the big three's relative weakness, the company ramped up its sales and marketing operation and aggressively plowed its profits into new North American plants (it now operates 10). It paid off, allowing the company to push its market share from 7.5 percent in 1990 to 16.3 percent today.

But some missteps along the way mean the economic slump is hitting Toyota harder than its Asian rival Honda. Part of it is a timing issue. Seeing a hole in its lineup, Toyota rolled out the full-size Tundra pickup in 2007, just as gasoline prices started skyrocketing and U.S. consumers started abandoning trucks and SUVs in favor of more fuel efficient cars.

Now that the economy is on the skids, the company's breakneck expansion of its U.S. operations isn't looking all that smart, either. The soaring value of the yen hasn't helped, because it's made Japanese exports less competitive and undercuts the value of earnings made in American and elsewhere.

Also hurting the company is its unwritten but understood policy of not laying off permanent employees. It's a wonderful practice, but this year it will cost Toyota $300 million to keep workers on the payroll while its factories sit idle. Nissan, Daimler, GM, Renault, Ford, Volvo and Chrysler don't share Toyota's altruism -- they've all announced layoffs in the last month.

In a way, Toyota is a victim of its own success. It has over the past 20 years transformed itself into one of the two biggest fish (the other being GM) in the pond. But now that pond has turned into a festering swamp of freaked out consumers and eerily quiet dealerships, and it's not such a great place to be.

Toyota won't go the way of Bear Stearns. It has a fat $18.5 billion cash cushion, almost no debt and a big lead in clean technology led by the Prius. Demonstrating its flexibility, it announced earlier this year that it would flip its new plant in Mississippi from building Highlander SUVs to Prius hybrids. And it's speeding up the roll out of new hybrids, with plans to launch four new models next year.

That said, no one expecting things to turn around anytime soon. Toyota's in for some lean times. And that's a big change for a company that for years looked like it could do no wrong.

Hedgehog

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Re: Detroit Is Tanking, But Toyota's in Trouble, Too
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2008, 08:20:53 PM »
Toyota is in very good shape.
It's just a drop in profit for the company, ie they're still making money.
They're solid as well and has good products in all classes.
They may even come out of this crisis a winner since they are one of few carmakers with real muscle to make moves right now.
Wouldn't be surprised to see Toyota buying some brands from the three big ones.
Volkswagen might get involved as well in trying to buy a brand at a discount price.   
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Soul Crusher

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Re: Detroit Is Tanking, But Toyota's in Trouble, Too
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2008, 10:11:31 AM »
Toyota is in very good shape.
It's just a drop in profit for the company, ie they're still making money.
They're solid as well and has good products in all classes.
They may even come out of this crisis a winner since they are one of few carmakers with real muscle to make moves right now.
Wouldn't be surprised to see Toyota buying some brands from the three big ones.
Volkswagen might get involved as well in trying to buy a brand at a discount price.   

GM needs to go bankrupt and all union contracts and top execs need to be replaced.

The unions and the inept execs have destroyed that company.

 

Hereford

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Re: Detroit Is Tanking, But Toyota's in Trouble, Too
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2008, 10:15:32 AM »
If Detroit goes bankrupt, look for the federal government to take over all the union legacy costs at the direct expense of the taxpayers.

OzmO

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Re: Detroit Is Tanking, But Toyota's in Trouble, Too
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2008, 10:16:29 AM »
GM needs to go bankrupt and all union contracts and top execs need to be replaced.

The unions and the inept execs have destroyed that company.

 

Completely agree.

In addition Pelosi and company have been bought and paid for by Unions

OzmO

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Re: Detroit Is Tanking, But Toyota's in Trouble, Too
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2008, 10:18:01 AM »
If Detroit goes bankrupt, look for the federal government to take over all the union legacy costs at the direct expense of the taxpayers.

Let them go bankrupt and not pay.   


Soul Crusher

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Re: Detroit Is Tanking, But Toyota's in Trouble, Too
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2008, 10:25:19 AM »
Let them go bankrupt and not pay.   

The only way our US auto companies will be competitive is to get ride of the many regulations and act like any other industry such as the computer, telephone, or other companies not saddled with Union rules and hamstrings.

Unionism fosters laziness, mediocrity, and increased costs with less quality to the end user.

Without the Union tax on each car, the cost of a US automobile would be thousands and thousands of dollars less money. 

Hereford

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Re: Detroit Is Tanking, But Toyota's in Trouble, Too
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2008, 10:26:42 AM »
That's a big reason union leadershit isn't concerned about driving Detroit or any other industry out of business. The democrats will be sure they get theirs no matter what.

If GM fails, for employees it basically means an early retirement with something like 90% of pay plus all benefits.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Detroit Is Tanking, But Toyota's in Trouble, Too
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2008, 10:27:45 AM »
That's a big reason union leadershit isn't concerned about driving Detroit or any other industry out of business. The democrats will be sure they get theirs no matter what.

If GM fails, for employees it basically means an early retirement with something like 90% of pay plus all benefits.

Overpaid, underworkerd, and crappy product.

Hereford

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Re: Detroit Is Tanking, But Toyota's in Trouble, Too
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2008, 10:33:17 AM »
IMHO, a BIG reason the US car makers focused on big trucks and SUVs is that those are the only things they could sell for enough $$$ to be able to cover the union costs that every car has. You can still make money selling a vbig ehicle for 55K, but nobody is going to pay that for an American car. Go buy a BMW or Mercedes for that kinda money.

Ford can't cover the $70/hr labor costs by selling a Fusion for 25K. They CAN by selling an F350 for 55K.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Detroit Is Tanking, But Toyota's in Trouble, Too
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2008, 10:37:11 AM »
IMHO, a BIG reason the US car makers focused on big trucks and SUVs is that those are the only things they could sell for enough $$$ to be able to cover the union costs that every car has. You can still make money selling a vbig ehicle for 55K, but nobody is going to pay that for an American car. Go buy a BMW or Mercedes for that kinda money.

Ford can't cover the $70/hr labor costs by selling a Fusion for 25K. They CAN by selling an F350 for 55K.

Great point.  Exactly 100% accurate.



shootfighter1

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Re: Detroit Is Tanking, But Toyota's in Trouble, Too
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2008, 11:55:28 AM »
Obama is asking for the auto industry bailout!  Please government, listen to the people!

OzmO

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Re: Detroit Is Tanking, But Toyota's in Trouble, Too
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2008, 12:06:32 PM »
This shows you the power of Unions


When was the last time government  listened to the people?   during the Vietnam war?

Soul Crusher

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Re: Detroit Is Tanking, But Toyota's in Trouble, Too
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2008, 12:30:16 PM »
This shows you the power of Unions


When was the last time government  listened to the people?   during the Vietnam war?

A bailout of GM is a waste of money in the worst sense.  Unless they are prepared to radically change the way they do business, there is no sense in letting them continue.