Waxy Maize......

[DIVISION]

Best taken alone post-workout or with whey isolate?

An old bodybuilder said he preferred it alone, with whey coming an hour later.......then a food meal an hour after that.

I'm sure alot of this depends on metabolism, but what are the opinions on this.

(tbombz, you settle down.)




DIV

[tendonitis]

if you're completely anal about every aspect of nutrition, take the waxy immediately after your last rep of your last set and then wait 20 minutes or so and have a whey shake. supposedly protein puts a load on the waxy and slows it's absorption a bit

i like waxy but it can make a damn mess if you're not careful

i usually just go with the old standby, whey and dextrose together,  simple and cheap

[Emmortal]

When I used WM I'd just mix it with my whey never noticed a difference from staggering the whey delivery.  I do the same now with Karbolyn, works fine, especially with Slin.

[busyB]

Best taken alone post-workout or with whey isolate?

An old bodybuilder said he preferred it alone, with whey coming an hour later.......then a food meal an hour after that.

I'm sure alot of this depends on metabolism, but what are the opinions on this.

(tbombz, you settle down.)




DIV

Like I told you before kid, keep it simple, mix the Whey and Waxy together in one shaker, fill at the water fountain when done training, and enjoy! 

Then eat about solid meal of protein and carbs 1-1.5 hours after shake.

[tbombz]

whey protein  digestion rate is about 40 minutes

waxy maize about 3 minute , maybe less

you want high conecntrations of protein in your blood when you start working out, and when you finish working out

you want elevated insulin and carbs in your blood when you start working out and when you finish working out.



you do the math
 

[flexingtonsteele]

Whey protein slows down the stomach emptying of the waxy maize ( since it needs to be digested by the stomach) and pretty much destroys the purpose of it.

To take full advantage of the waxy maize take it with something that doesnt need to be digested such as amino's, creatine, glutamine etc to get its full benefits of the extremely fast gastric emptying. Then 45-60 minutes later eat a whole food meal.

So if ur going to take whey with ur waxy maize, u might as well take maltodextrin or dextrose because its a lot cheaper and will do the same thing.

The only way u can get that extremely fast digestion and absportion of the WMS is to take it without the whey.

Hope this helps

[tbombz]

yeah thats true

but what the hell is the point of raised insulin and replensihed glycogen without amino acids in the blood to manufacture new proteins with  

[Alex23]

Hahahah I find it funny that the "nutritional experts" on this thread are all under 180lb 
 


Unless you're "dialing in" .... Who gives a fuck; KISS is the key.

[io856]

Whey protein slows down the stomach emptying of the waxy maize ( since it needs to be digested by the stomach) and pretty much destroys the purpose of it.

To take full advantage of the waxy maize take it with something that doesnt need to be digested such as amino's, creatine, glutamine etc to get its full benefits of the extremely fast gastric emptying. Then 45-60 minutes later eat a whole food meal.

So if ur going to take whey with ur waxy maize, u might as well take maltodextrin or dextrose because its a lot cheaper and will do the same thing.

The only way u can get that extremely fast digestion and absportion of the WMS is to take it without the whey.

Hope this helps

Now I don't know too much about the subject so bare with me.

I heard that WMS can "carry more nutrients" to the muscle... high molecular weight etc. so in that way there still are benefits. Right?

[flexingtonsteele]

yeah thats true

but what the hell is the point of raised insulin and replensihed glycogen without amino acids in the blood to manufacture new proteins with  

yea exactly my point.

Take the waxy with bcaa's or eaa's and creatine, and even throw in a lil' beta alanine. But just not whey.

Since amino acids are what the whey is going to get broken down into anyways, just get right down to the nitty gritty and pump those aminos in there at warp speed with the waxy.

[flexingtonsteele]

Now I don't know too much about the subject so bare with me.

I heard that WMS can "carry more nutrients" to the muscle... high molecular weight etc. so in that way there still are benefits. Right?

Yep, wazy carries everything to the muscles along with it ( aminos, creatine, etc ) but once u add whey protein to it, it lowers the molecular weight thus slowing digestion and wasting its benefits.

[flexingtonsteele]

Hahahah I find it funny that the "nutritional experts" on this thread are all under 180lb 
 


Unless you're "dialing in" .... Who gives a fuck; KISS is the key.

I'll be waaaayyy past 180 pretty soon here, and ive forgotten more about nutrition than most people know, got a B.S in the subject, and a bit of real life experience.

So id listen to me if i were someone else 

[io856]

Yep, wazy carries everything to the muscles along with it ( aminos, creatine, etc ) but once u add whey protein to it, it lowers the molecular weight thus slowing digestion and wasting its benefits.

ok so if used pre workout would you take your WPI 30 mins before or after the waxy maize?

[Alex23]

I'll be waaaayyy past 180 pretty soon here, and ive forgotten more about nutrition than most people know, got a B.S in the subject, and a bit of real life experience.

So id listen to me if i were someone else 

Are you saying that adding whey reduces the "molecular weight" of waxy maize? Unless you break down the molecule this is chemically impossible... some vague memory from biochem major.. 

[Rimbaud]

I personally don't care for it as a post workout type drink.

[flexingtonsteele]

ok so if used pre workout would you take your WPI 30 mins before or after the waxy maize?

This is what i would do if u want to take waxy pre workout and post workout.

Eat a meal whole food or whey with some fats it doesnt matter.

1.5 hours later- (30 min before training)- Take 30 grams WMS with 10g bcaa, 5g creatine and 3 grams beta alanine, 10g glycerol. ( this will give u a sick ass pump)

Immediately after training take 30g WMS, 10g bcaa, 10g eaa, 5g creatine, 20g glutamine.

1 hour later........Eat a whole food meal with complex carbs and lean protein. i.e...........Chicken and rice or egg whites and sweet potatoe or grits.

Everything is optional except the wms and bcaa and creatine......Only add the other stuff if u have the cash.

[flexingtonsteele]

Are you saying that adding whey reduces the "molecular weight" of waxy maize? Unless you break down the molecule this is chemically impossible... some vague memory from biochem major.. 

Yes thats what im saying. Do some research.

Think about it, u dont break the molecule, u weigh it down, thus lowering the molecular weight.

Pretty simple. U should stop trying to disprove me and think logically 

[tbombz]

that owuld be good but id go with whey isolate 60g 50 minutes pre workout

qand id alsso bump the wazy to 100 g each shake and put one intra workout

[Emmortal]

Yep, wazy carries everything to the muscles along with it ( aminos, creatine, etc ) but once u add whey protein to it, it lowers the molecular weight thus slowing digestion and wasting its benefits.

I seriously question the amount that it slows down to be significant to the point of negatively impacting overall absorption.  I've tried it both ways for months at a time and never noticed a damn bit of difference.

[flexingtonsteele]

that owuld be good but id go with whey isolate 60g 50 minutes pre workout

qand id alsso bump the wazy to 100 g each shake and put one intra workout

usually anything more than 60g wms gives me the runs.......

And an intra workout shake would be fine too.

i wouldnt use so much though, to get the insulin response u need u dont need that much waxy I think 60g is the max someone should use. But it depends on their insulin sensitivity and size.

[Alex23]

Yes thats what im saying. Do some research.
Think about it, u dont break the molecule, u weigh it down, thus lowering the molecular weight.
Pretty simple. U should stop trying to disprove me and think logically 

"Do some research" oh brother... chemistry 101, unless you break  down a molecule you can't "Weight it down" ... maybe you mean diluting as a solution...

oh brother... you're starting to sound like the other manteca idiot... making shit up...

[flexingtonsteele]

I seriously question the amount that it slows down to be significant to the point of negatively impacting overall absorption.  I've tried it both ways for months at a time and never noticed a damn bit of difference.

yea its not much at all, but all it does is, slow it down enough to negate the extemely quick gastric emptying that it has without it. Thats pretty much the only reason to buy waxy maize. Because at the end of the day your not going to notice much difference with it than u would malto or dextrose. Except that there is no bloat from it and the pump is a bit better.

But like anything else, ur really not going to "feel" a difference between whatever protocol u use.

Like right now i just changed multi vitamins, the one im taking now is "supposed" to be better and more geared for athletes, but do i feel any difference. NOPE! Same thing with the waxy and whey or waxy without whey.

[flexingtonsteele]

"Do some research" oh brother... chemistry 101, unless you break  down a molecule you can't "Weight it down" ... maybe you mean diluting as a solution...

oh brother... you're starting to sound like the other manteca idiot... making shit up...

So ur telling me that waxy and whey digest just as fast as waxy and water???

You are the same person who said that why not just take corn syrup instead of waxy maize starch ( oh brother    )

And I find it funny that people trying to "disprove" people on the nutrition board havent seen there abs since the clinton was in office.

[Alex23]

So ur telling me that waxy and whey digest just as fast as waxy and water???

You are the same person who said that why not just take corn syrup instead of waxy maize starch ( oh brother   )

And I find it funny that people trying to "disprove" people on the nutrition board havent seen there abs since the clinton was in office.

Corn starch, not corn syrup... maize ~ corn...  pretty similar shit.

Stop obsessing dude and keep it simple... tbh, I don't give a fuck about having abs or not... I train hard, I get big, I'm happy... I have  better things to do in life than time waxy shit 29.324234mins after my last set followed by 25.23423904820394g of some other shit...

[Emmortal]

yea its not much at all, but all it does is, slow it down enough to negate the extemely quick gastric emptying that it has without it. Thats pretty much the only reason to buy waxy maize. Because at the end of the day your not going to notice much difference with it than u would malto or dextrose. Except that there is no bloat from it and the pump is a bit better.

But like anything else, ur really not going to "feel" a difference between whatever protocol u use.

Like right now i just changed multi vitamins, the one im taking now is "supposed" to be better and more geared for athletes, but do i feel any difference. NOPE! Same thing with the waxy and whey or waxy without whey.

I wasn't going off how I felt, I was strictly speaking from body composition changes.