Author Topic: If Big 3 closes.... 1% of US population loses their job... 3 million jobs  (Read 2547 times)

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Wow, that's a HUGE impact if the Big 3 go under.

But then again, you have high-school dropouts making 90k a year working 40 hours on relatively easy assembly lines, thanks to Union arm-twisting.  maybe it's best to stop the inefficient car production.

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Re: If Big 3 closes.... 1% of US population loses their job... 3 million jobs
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2008, 11:00:14 PM »
Wow, that's a HUGE impact if the Big 3 go under.

But then again, you have high-school dropouts making 90k a year working 40 hours on relatively easy assembly lines, thanks to Union arm-twisting.  maybe it's best to stop the inefficient car production.

 I don't care.

Let the fuckers starve.

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Re: If Big 3 closes.... 1% of US population loses their job... 3 million jobs
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2008, 12:24:26 AM »
I don't care.

Let the fuckers starve.

They won't starve, ...they'll just go on welfare, and default on their mortgages leaving YOU to pick up the tab.

...oh, ...and they won't have any money to buy your services and keep your business in the red.  :)
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Re: If Big 3 closes.... 1% of US population loses their job... 3 million jobs
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2008, 03:52:46 AM »
I don't care.

Let the fuckers starve.

It would be wonderful if it were that easy......

I'd love to let them starve too, except that it won't just be them who's starving.  The American auto industry HAS to change, there's no doubt about that, but it is tied to too many areas of our economy.  If the big 3 go under, it wouldn't be good for anyone initially.
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Re: If Big 3 closes.... 1% of US population loses their job... 3 million jobs
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2008, 05:21:13 AM »
Wow, that's a HUGE impact if the Big 3 go under.

But then again, you have high-school dropouts making 90k a year working 40 hours on relatively easy assembly lines, thanks to Union arm-twisting.  maybe it's best to stop the inefficient car production.

I guess a CEO making 500 million in one year even though the company lost 40% of its value is OK. What really bugs is the fucking union "arm-twisting"!

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Re: If Big 3 closes.... 1% of US population loses their job... 3 million jobs
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2008, 06:12:14 AM »
Wow, that's a HUGE impact if the Big 3 go under.

But then again, you have high-school dropouts making 90k a year working 40 hours on relatively easy assembly lines, thanks to Union arm-twisting.  maybe it's best to stop the inefficient car production.

The  Big 3 and the Unions earned bankruptcy very hard.  Produce expensive crappy products and overpay retirees to do nothing. 

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Re: If Big 3 closes.... 1% of US population loses their job... 3 million jobs
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2008, 06:57:00 AM »
Yep, system needs an overhaul from unions to CEO bonuses.
My guess is that 1% of population will not loose their jobs.  One or two of the big 3 will become bigger and hire more.  there may be a transitionary period of major job loss, but many of those jobs will return after some re-tooling and mergers.

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Re: If Big 3 closes.... 1% of US population loses their job... 3 million jobs
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2008, 07:49:42 AM »
[...]many of those jobs will return after some re-tooling and mergers.

Ya think? My company (the one that lost > 20 billion dollars) is in the verge of outsourcing pretty much anything that does not involve face-to-face contact with the clients. I'm not talking about 3000 or 4000 employees... They're already doing metrics to see what part of the operations can and cannot be outsourced... They've already built a huge building in India, financed partly by you and I, and as soon as all regulatory constraints are removed (and believe me, they will lobby to get them removed!) they will move over there permanently. This is the very same company that is going to get a cut of the 850 billion dollar package mind you.

You can call it capitalism of free market or give it any other bullshit term you like, but I work for a huge conglomerate, have seen 40% of the workforce fired and NOT replaced. Capisci?

My father belongs to DC9, and although some of the bosses there are indeed corrupt (as with our government, Big Business, etc;) the unions DO HELP spread the wealth to a vastly larger percentage of the population (as opposed to a small percentage). The fallacy, YES, FALLACY, that unions drive businesses to the ground is a bullshit story from greedy motherfuckers who want to create a country in which 5% of the population owns 95% of Da Shit while 95% of the population is asked to "get by" on the remaning 5%. I hate to break it to you, but if that is capitalism, TO HELL WITH CAPITALISM! TO HELL WITH THE FREE MARKET!

What we need to do is go back to 1955 USA (economically speaking). We need to protect our products (hence our jobs) from countries that subject their people to slavery-like conditions and Big Business (the Walmarts of this world) and put OUR people to work. We need to tell Big Business that: IF YA DON'T MAKE IT HERE, YOU AIN'T SELLIN' IT HERE!!



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Re: If Big 3 closes.... 1% of US population loses their job... 3 million jobs
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2008, 08:02:04 AM »
Ya think? My company (the one that lost > 20 billion dollars) is in the verge of outsourcing pretty much anything that does not involve face-to-face contact with the clients. I'm not talking about 3000 or 4000 employees... They're already doing metrics to see what part of the operations can and cannot be outsourced... They've already built a huge building in India, financed partly by you and I, and as soon as all regulatory constraints are removed (and believe me, they will lobby to get them removed!) they will move over there permanently. This is the very same company that is going to get a cut of the 850 billion dollar package mind you.

You can call it capitalism of free market or give it any other bullshit term you like, but I work for a huge conglomerate, have seen 40% of the workforce fired and NOT replaced. Capisci?

My father belongs to DC9, and although some of the bosses there are indeed corrupt (as with our government, Big Business, etc;) the unions DO HELP spread the wealth to a vastly larger percentage of the population (as opposed to a small percentage). The fallacy, YES, FALLACY, that unions drive businesses to the ground is a bullshit story from greedy motherfuckers who want to create a country in which 5% of the population owns 95% of Da Shit while 95% of the population is asked to "get by" on the remaning 5%. I hate to break it to you, but if that is capitalism, TO HELL WITH CAPITALISM! TO HELL WITH THE FREE MARKET!

What we need to do is go back to 1955 USA (economically speaking). We need to protect our products (hence our jobs) from countries that subject their people to slavery-like conditions and Big Business (the Walmarts of this world) and put OUR people to work. We need to tell Big Business that: IF YA DON'T MAKE IT HERE, YOU AIN'T SELLIN' IT HERE!!




The DC9 painters unions are bums.  not the workers, but the "business managers" and "organizers" are thugs.  I have had to deal with them on a few occasions.  They always have their hands out and are leeches.

The world is not 1995 anymore.  We need to adapt.

If you want job security, do like I did, quit your job, find a passion in life, and start your own business. 

Relying on corporate america for a job is like a slave begging the master for crumbs. 

Is is stressful???  Yes!!!!!!!!!!!

However, the stress I have is far better than feeling like a slave to corporate masters.

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Re: If Big 3 closes.... 1% of US population loses their job... 3 million jobs
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2008, 08:51:57 AM »
The DC9 painters unions are bums.  not the workers, but the "business managers" and "organizers" are thugs.  I have had to deal with them on a few occasions.  They always have their hands out and are leeches.

I know. I'm not saying the bosses are not bums, but at least all DC9 employees get a far share. My father makes a decent living, was able to buy a house, cars, take both kids through college, etc. And now he is going to retire with a decent amount of his hard-earned money.

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The world is not 1995 anymore.  We need to adapt.

Adapt to what... exactly? I mean the relationship between boss-worker is still the same now as it was 50, 500 or 5000 years ago. Well, there is a difference, now it's approaching equality. Meaning whereas years ago bosses OWED the employees, now it's not the case anymore. We no longer have to work for free. We no longer have to work 7 days a week. And what do you propose? To "adapt" to a market that would take the American worker back about 125 years?

May you, by any chance, be saying that there is a correlation between American companies going down the drain because the American worker makes "too much" money? Because if you are, I hate to break it to you, but that is not the case. After WWII American companies enjoyed a huge market shares for all their products, being able to sell them all over the globe. The managers of these companies, instead of learning from their mistakes, streamlining their operations, making new innovative products and just taking advantage of the fact that we couldn't make what we sold fast enough, fell asleep at the wheel. Eventually companies from all over the globe started competing against US corporations and became better at it. Nowadays we have corporations that are NOT free market enterprises in nature and relly HEAVILY on government intervention (via tax breaks, bailouts, tariffs, etc), in essence, they've become financially parasitic. And what is the best explanation these managers and CEOs have to explain why they just threw away such a loooooooong technological advantage (almost 50 years)?: "The unions are driving us to the ground!". Yeah right!!

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If you want job security, do like I did, quit your job, find a passion in life, and start your own business.

I'm pretty sure you are happy and that you found your "passion", but not everyone is like you, not everyone has that entrepreneur experience. I'm not talking about myself, I'm talking about the immense majority of Americans. We need REALISTIC solutions not do-like-I-dos

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Relying on corporate america for a job is like a slave begging the master for crumbs. 

Is is stressful???  Yes!!!!!!!!!!!

However, the stress I have is far better than feeling like a slave to corporate masters.

Well, nowadays you do not have much of a choice. I mean corporations own pretty much everything, so like it or not, even if you get your own business... if you are successful is because your market segment is not profitable for Big Money to get into, otherwise you'd be pretty much priced out.

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Re: If Big 3 closes.... 1% of US population loses their job... 3 million jobs
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2008, 09:02:19 AM »
I know. I'm not saying the bosses are not bums, but at least all DC9 employees get a far share. My father makes a decent living, was able to buy a house, cars, take both kids through college, etc. And now he is going to retire with a decent amount of his hard-earned money.

Adapt to what... exactly? I mean the relationship between boss-worker is still the same now as it was 50, 500 or 5000 years ago. Well, there is a difference, now it's approaching equality. Meaning whereas years ago bosses OWED the employees, now it's not the case anymore. We no longer have to work for free. We no longer have to work 7 days a week. And what do you propose? To "adapt" to a market that would take the American worker back about 125 years?

May you, by any chance, be saying that there is a correlation between American companies going down the drain because the American worker makes "too much" money? Because if you are, I hate to break it to you, but that is not the case. After WWII American companies enjoyed a huge market shares for all their products, being able to sell them all over the globe. The managers of these companies, instead of learning from their mistakes, streamlining their operations, making new innovative products and just taking advantage of the fact that we couldn't make what we sold fast enough, fell asleep at the wheel. Eventually companies from all over the globe started competing against US corporations and became better at it. Nowadays we have corporations that are NOT free market enterprises in nature and relly HEAVILY on government intervention (via tax breaks, bailouts, tariffs, etc), in essence, they've become financially parasitic. And what is the best explanation these managers and CEOs have to explain why they just threw away such a loooooooong technological advantage (almost 50 years)?: "The unions are driving us to the ground!". Yeah right!!

I'm pretty sure you are happy and that you found your "passion", but not everyone is like you, not everyone has that entrepreneur experience. I'm not talking about myself, I'm talking about the immense majority of Americans. We need REALISTIC solutions not do-like-I-dos

Well, nowadays you do not have much of a choice. I mean corporations own pretty much everything, so like it or not, even if you get your own business... if you are successful is because your market segment is not profitable for Big Money to get into, otherwise you'd be pretty much priced out.

Labor is much more free moving in this day an age.  Companies are able to move to where labor is cheaper much easier than ever before.  Between cheap transportation, internet, mobile communications, the world is much more global than in 1955.   

People need to update their skills, and keep abreast of new developments.  Having a 1955 mentality is why we are falling behind.  The "good old days" are gone.  Get over it.  Someone with low skills is not going to be able to have a middle class lifestyle. 

People who refuse to understand this are going to be no different than 3rd world poor people. 

The "union mentality" is what killed GM and the Big Three.

 

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Re: If Big 3 closes.... 1% of US population loses their job... 3 million jobs
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2008, 09:05:19 AM »
I know. I'm not saying the bosses are not bums, but at least all DC9 employees get a far share. My father makes a decent living, was able to buy a house, cars, take both kids through college, etc. And now he is going to retire with a decent amount of his hard-earned money.

Adapt to what... exactly? I mean the relationship between boss-worker is still the same now as it was 50, 500 or 5000 years ago. Well, there is a difference, now it's approaching equality. Meaning whereas years ago bosses OWED the employees, now it's not the case anymore. We no longer have to work for free. We no longer have to work 7 days a week. And what do you propose? To "adapt" to a market that would take the American worker back about 125 years?

May you, by any chance, be saying that there is a correlation between American companies going down the drain because the American worker makes "too much" money? Because if you are, I hate to break it to you, but that is not the case. After WWII American companies enjoyed a huge market shares for all their products, being able to sell them all over the globe. The managers of these companies, instead of learning from their mistakes, streamlining their operations, making new innovative products and just taking advantage of the fact that we couldn't make what we sold fast enough, fell asleep at the wheel. Eventually companies from all over the globe started competing against US corporations and became better at it. Nowadays we have corporations that are NOT free market enterprises in nature and relly HEAVILY on government intervention (via tax breaks, bailouts, tariffs, etc), in essence, they've become financially parasitic. And what is the best explanation these managers and CEOs have to explain why they just threw away such a loooooooong technological advantage (almost 50 years)?: "The unions are driving us to the ground!". Yeah right!!

I'm pretty sure you are happy and that you found your "passion", but not everyone is like you, not everyone has that entrepreneur experience. I'm not talking about myself, I'm talking about the immense majority of Americans. We need REALISTIC solutions not do-like-I-dos

Well, nowadays you do not have much of a choice. I mean corporations own pretty much everything, so like it or not, even if you get your own business... if you are successful is because your market segment is not profitable for Big Money to get into, otherwise you'd be pretty much priced out.

The 9-5 mentality is what is killing us. 

I chose to do my own thing because I dont want to rely on some corporate board or committee for my livilihood.  I like what I do, but my motivation in doing my own thing is so that i dont have to answer to anyone, especially some disgusting politically correct HR department in some corporation.

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Re: If Big 3 closes.... 1% of US population loses their job... 3 million jobs
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2008, 09:12:02 AM »
You are sorely mistaken if you don't see the negatives that unions have brought in recent times.  As already pointed out in our other discussion, unions were absolutely necessary historically and they could still be useful to protect workers, but they have abused their power in recent times and are a drain on business.  They must be ammended.  Union grievances are often a joke now, and costly.

Yes, I do believe that many American auto union workers make too much $ for the job they do.  We can agree to disagree.  I also believe CEO bonuses must be tied to company profits.  If the company doesn't make $, the CEO and COO make no bonuses that year.  We must have incentive that benefits all.

Having higher corporate taxation and proportionally increased regulation will drive even more companies out of the US.  Big mistake IMO.

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Re: If Big 3 closes.... 1% of US population loses their job... 3 million jobs
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2008, 09:14:20 AM »
People need to update their skills, and keep abreast of new developments.  Having a 1955 mentality is why we are falling behind.  The "good old days" are gone.  Get over it.  Someone with low skills is not going to be able to have a middle class lifestyle.
 

First off, I'm well off.

Secondly, like I said, we need REALISTIC solutions. "Updating" someone's skills is not cheap. In fact, it requires huge sums of money either from tax breaks or huge government projects that people adamantly refuse because of the stench of "socialism".

Now, I do understand companies want to go where labor costs are cheaper, but by that rule of thumb, and now speaking as the one HOLDING the money, aka "buyer", I think it would be reasonable to invite companies to sell their products where they are cheapest.  

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People who refuse to understand this are going to be no different than 3rd world poor people.


It's not "refusing" to understand, it's that it's a remarkadly stupid proposal. I mean, like I said, how do you retrain a 150+ million workforce into accepting a lower salary? Or do you expect everyone of those 150+ million workers to become lawyers, doctors or nuclear scientists? Is that a realistic solution?

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The "union mentality" is what killed GM and the Big Three.

That is a lie. What killed GM and the rest of the big conglomerates is the fact that they stopped awarding independent though, innovation and productivity. Look at the Japanese companies.

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Re: If Big 3 closes.... 1% of US population loses their job... 3 million jobs
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2008, 09:20:56 AM »
How about letting those idiot retrain THEMSELVES? I paid for my own college, wtf? Now we gotta pay for unionites too?  Nah, lets just continue to pay them 4X what they are worth for semi-skilled work because it's too much trouble to make them adapt.

"It's not "refusing" to understand, it's that it's a remarkadly stupid proposal. I mean, like I said, how do you retrain a 150+ million workforce into accepting a lower salary? Or do you expect everyone of those 150+ million workers to become lawyers, doctors or nuclear scientists? Is that a realistic solution?"

Hah. 140 of those 150 million will take the year of employment, then go on disability some how. Bet on it.

Quote
The "union mentality" is what killed GM and the Big Three.

That is a lie. What killed GM and the rest of the big conglomerates is the fact that they stopped awarding independent though, innovation and productivity. Look at the Japanese companies.

Ya, the fact that there is more union labor costs in every car than actual materials has nothing to do with it... Idiot.

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Re: If Big 3 closes.... 1% of US population loses their job... 3 million jobs
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2008, 09:41:21 AM »
How about letting those idiot retrain THEMSELVES? I paid for my own college, wtf? Now we gotta pay for unionites too?  Nah, lets just continue to pay them 4X what they are worth for semi-skilled work because it's too much trouble to make them adapt.

"It's not "refusing" to understand, it's that it's a remarkadly stupid proposal. I mean, like I said, how do you retrain a 150+ million workforce into accepting a lower salary? Or do you expect everyone of those 150+ million workers to become lawyers, doctors or nuclear scientists? Is that a realistic solution?"

Hah. 140 of those 150 million will take the year of employment, then go on disability some how. Bet on it.

Quote
The "union mentality" is what killed GM and the Big Three.

That is a lie. What killed GM and the rest of the big conglomerates is the fact that they stopped awarding independent though, innovation and productivity. Look at the Japanese companies.

Ya, the fact that there is more union labor costs in every car than actual materials has nothing to do with it... Idiot.

Thank you.  i was just posting this.  These union bums are mostly lazy slobs looking for more money to do less. 

If these small minded bums are too lazy to educate THEMSELVES, then screw em, its their own fault.

Anyone who refuses to adapt to the realities of the world will fall behind.  Its not GWB's fault, its their own.

I say let them all go bankrupt and start over.

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Re: If Big 3 closes.... 1% of US population loses their job... 3 million jobs
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2008, 09:46:15 AM »
You are sorely mistaken if you don't see the negatives that unions have brought in recent times.  As already pointed out in our other discussion, unions were absolutely necessary historically and they could still be useful to protect workers, but they have abused their power in recent times and are a drain on business.  They must be ammended.  Union grievances are often a joke now, and costly.

Yes, I do believe that many American auto union workers make too much $ for the job they do.  We can agree to disagree.  I also believe CEO bonuses must be tied to company profits.  If the company doesn't make $, the CEO and COO make no bonuses that year.  We must have incentive that benefits all.

Having higher corporate taxation and proportionally increased regulation will drive even more companies out of the US.  Big mistake IMO.

Another problem is that GM simply does not make a reliable product at a reasonable price that people want to buy.

Simply existing to provide jobs to people is stupid.

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Re: If Big 3 closes.... 1% of US population loses their job... 3 million jobs
« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2008, 10:02:43 AM »
Another problem is that GM simply does not make a reliable product at a reasonable price that people want to buy.

Simply existing to provide jobs to people is stupid.

That's all the big 3 are these days though.

And I love all this talk about how Detroit makes 1% - 3% of all the jobs in the US, so we can't afford to let them fail.

Bust the unions, fire all those people making $60 an hour. Hire them back (on professional probation for performance) at $15 an hour, which is more realistic to what they are really worth. Then take the extra $45 and hire three more people. See? I just found a way to hire 4% to 12% of the entire country! 

 ;D

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Re: If Big 3 closes.... 1% of US population loses their job... 3 million jobs
« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2008, 02:31:31 PM »
How about letting those idiot retrain THEMSELVES? I paid for my own college, wtf? Now we gotta pay for unionites too?  Nah, lets just continue to pay them 4X what they are worth for semi-skilled work because it's too much trouble to make them adapt.

"It's not "refusing" to understand, it's that it's a remarkadly stupid proposal. I mean, like I said, how do you retrain a 150+ million workforce into accepting a lower salary? Or do you expect everyone of those 150+ million workers to become lawyers, doctors or nuclear scientists? Is that a realistic solution?"

Hah. 140 of those 150 million will take the year of employment, then go on disability some how. Bet on it.

Quote
The "union mentality" is what killed GM and the Big Three.

That is a lie. What killed GM and the rest of the big conglomerates is the fact that they stopped awarding independent though, innovation and productivity. Look at the Japanese companies.

Ya, the fact that there is more union labor costs in every car than actual materials has nothing to do with it... Idiot.



Well, I'm not just grabbing this out of my ass, I learned it in a Production and Operations Management class that was a requisite in graduate school (back in the late 90s). I mean, if there's one thing I learned about the state of American auto making at the time is that, within the higher ups, the discussion was not about unions or angry employees or anything like that, it was about how to introduce new production concepts in order to compete with the Japanese automakers.

Now, EVERTHING the Japanese know about automaking they got from the Americans. Furthermore, the Japanese, after the war, decided to embark on an industrialization crusade in which American profesors, experts and the like took a very active part. Note that these experts (writing extensively in the HBR at the time) were totally ignored by Big Car.

Now, if you're being used a case study in graduate school ona a what-not-to-do basis, you know there's a problem with your company. Something must've happened in the late 60s early 70s because Big Business turned their back on American expertise, American academics and this is costing them dearly, because for many years we had the best of the best scientists, profesors, investigators, etc, enjoying the competitive advantage 30 years of uninterrupted development gives you or the presence of a multitude of researchers that could find you the best way to produce from condoms to nuclear reactor domes.

This is what I think the # 1 problem is, or so they try to teach me. I mean, look at the unionized world right now... I mean, 95% of the companies going under haven't even 5% of the workers unionized, and they are going under any way. By this I'm not saying there isn't any corruption or ill intentions within the union's higherups, I am merely saying that they are not the culprit of the currect Big Business state of affairs. I am merely saying that at the end of the day my father was able to provide for us and is going to be able to retire with a rather nice benefits package.

This is my humble opinion and nothing more.

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Re: If Big 3 closes.... 1% of US population loses their job... 3 million jobs
« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2008, 02:33:44 PM »
Who cares? Gay people want to get married...
I hate the State.

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Re: If Big 3 closes.... 1% of US population loses their job... 3 million jobs
« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2008, 02:41:16 PM »
Nice reply Slapper. Props for that one...

Unions are gay. Coincidence?

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Re: If Big 3 closes.... 1% of US population loses their job... 3 million jobs
« Reply #21 on: November 14, 2008, 02:53:28 PM »


 The fallacy, YES, FALLACY, that unions drive businesses to the ground is a bullshit story from greedy motherfuckers who want to create a country in which 5% of the population owns 95% of Da Shit while 95% of the population is asked to "get by" on the remaning 5%. I hate to break it to you, but if that is capitalism, TO HELL WITH CAPITALISM! TO HELL WITH THE FREE MARKET!





Uh...as it currently stands, the richest 1% possess more wealth than the bottom 90% COMBINED. 

It would be an improvement if that 1% was spread out to 5%.....
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Re: If Big 3 closes.... 1% of US population loses their job... 3 million jobs
« Reply #22 on: November 14, 2008, 03:11:45 PM »
This is what drives companies to the ground. Jack Welsh compensation package:

The blemish to the reputation of former General Electric CEO Jack Welch, Jr. began with a divorce paper filed by his estranged wife Jane Welch. She complained that a $35,000 monthly settlement Welch offered her was nowhere near the amount she needed to maintain her living standards. In her affidavit, she estimated that the couple spent more than $126,000 a month. This money didn't even draw from the perks provided by GE in accordance with Welch's compensation package when he officially stepped down from GE in September 2001. It was the size and extent of these perks that created an uproar on Wall Street and with the public, which eventually forced Jack Welch to give up most of the free benefits he had enjoyed during the past year.

In the final full year with the company, Welch earned more than $16 million. The retirement agreement provides him with an annual pension of more than $9 million a year and a health and life insurances. As a consultant to the company, he is paid $86,535 for his first 30 days of work each year, plus $17,307 for each additional day. GE provides him with financial planning services to manage his fortune, which is estimated at nearly $1 billion.

Much of the controversy surrounding Welch's compensation is related to the company perks he can still access. These include access to the company-owned luxury apartment at the Trump International Hotel and Towers in New York City, unlimited use of a corporate jet (estimated at $291,869 a month), a grand tier box at the Metropolitan Opera, membership at country clubs, court-side tickets to New York Knicks games, box seats at Yankee Stadium, prime tickets to the French and U.S. Open and Wimbledon tennis tournaments, and VIP tickets to all Olympic events.

GE picks up additional tabs that a billionaire should have no trouble paying, leading many to accuse Welch of greed. Welch's wife claims that the company had paid nearly $7.5 million to furnish, finance security, and install high-tech equipment for their four homes.

In the face of numerous revelations about the greed of corporate executives, investors and analysts have been highly critical of Welch. Following Welch's compensation, GE's board was blasted for irresponsibility and recklessness by the company shareholders, whose stock has lost more than 45 percent of its value since Welch's departure. In response to the onslaught of criticism, Welch announced on Sept. 16 that he had renegotiated his retirement package with the board of GE and given up all of the controversial perks, even as he defended the original retirement compensation.

In an op-ed piece that appeared in The Wall Street Journal, he claimed that his wife had "grossly misrepresented" his contract with GE. He said that "the world has changed during the past year" and that in today's reality, his package may be "misportrayed as an excessive retirement package." Welch wrote, "One thing I learned during my years as CEO is that perception matters. And in times when public confidence and trust have been shaken, I've learned the hard way that perception matters more than ever."

He also noted that the compensation package was arranged in 1996 so he would stay with the company with the unanimous approval of the board. Although he was offered "a special one-time payment of tens of millions of dollars to remain as CEO until December 2000" he instead agreed to a contract that "spelled out [his] obligations to GE, including [his] post-retirement obligations and the benefits [he] would receive in return."

In the end, Welch said he approached the GE board to restructure his retirement package because an "unwelcome and inaccurate attention to the company" was brought about by his compensation. The new agreement excludes all free benefits from GE except for funding for an office and administrative support, which has been provided to retiring GE heads for decades. Welch will also pay the company about $2 million for other services that he had been receiving for free, although his pension was unaffected by the renegotiated contract.

The responses to Welch's concessions have been mixed. While many praised his continuing leadership to shield the company from further negative attention, others noted that the SEC had launched an informal investigation into Welch's compensation package to see if it had been appropriately released in GE's 1997 annual report. Others noted that the board had provided excessive compensation in the first place, and shareholders rightfully deserved to have their money back.


Slapper

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Re: If Big 3 closes.... 1% of US population loses their job... 3 million jobs
« Reply #23 on: November 15, 2008, 05:00:24 AM »
Uh...as it currently stands, the richest 1% possess more wealth than the bottom 90% COMBINED. 

It would be an improvement if that 1% was spread out to 5%.....

Really? Where did ya get that info?

troponin

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Re: If Big 3 closes.... 1% of US population loses their job... 3 million jobs
« Reply #24 on: November 15, 2008, 05:17:43 AM »
Really? Where did ya get that info?

Just do a search for the richest 1%, you'll find a million sites.


It's hard to grasp the upper echelon of wealth. 

A Billionaire is as many times more wealth as a Millionaire is to a HOMELESS man begging for change.  When you get up around the wealth of Buffet or Gates at his peak, it isn't even "real" as far as us normals walking around with paper cash and credit payments are concerned. 


It takes a LOT of middle American salaries to make up for one Billionaire. 
The amount of money that is "owned" in America is amazing....if it were divided evenly, it would be surprising how much each person would have.....
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