Who is the Anti-Christ?

[Butterbean]

...why not.

The anti-homosexual stuff is in the same list as the dietary proscriptions.


The Luke

Luke, I think may be confused about Mosaic Law and how it pertains (or doesn't) to believers in Christ.

Here are some New Testament Scriptures:

(Food)
Mark 7:14
Again Jesus called the crowd to him and said, "Listen to me, everyone, and understand this. Nothing outside a man can make him 'unclean' by going into him. Rather, it is what comes out of a man that makes him 'unclean.' "

After he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about this parable. "Are you so dull?" he asked. "Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him 'unclean'? For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body." (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods "clean.")

He went on: "What comes out of a man is what makes him 'unclean.' For from within, out of men's hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. All these evils come from inside and make a man 'unclean.' "




(circumcision)
Galatians 5:6
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.






This may help too:

Galatians 3:21-25
Faith or Observance of the Law

Is the law, therefore, opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law. But the Scripture declares that the whole world is a prisoner of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe.

Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.

[Migs]

Obama

[The Luke]

Luke, I think may be confused about Mosaic Law and how it pertains (or doesn't) to believers in Christ.

...I'm sorry, did American Evangelical Christians suddenly become pro-gay?

Or are they still practising their true religion: hypocrisy... selectively deciding which bits of a contradictory history of temperal-lobe epilepsy in the ancient middle east are "literally" true, and which they can dismiss.


The Luke

[Butterbean]

...I'm sorry, did American Evangelical Christians suddenly become pro-gay?

Or are they still practising their true religion: hypocrisy... selectively deciding which bits of a contradictory history of temperal-lobe epilepsy in the ancient middle east are "literally" true, and which they can dismiss.


The Luke

If you take out the temperal-lobe epilepsy part, probably the hypocrisy one



Hey Luke, interesting way to discuss a subject.  You have seen that you have Mosaic Law confused with Grace and Faith in Christ.  You ignore it and then go on the "attack" from a different standpoint.  Oh well 

[The Luke]

Hey Luke, interesting way to discuss a subject.  You have seen that you have Mosaic Law confused with Grace and Faith in Christ.  You ignore it and then go on the "attack" from a different standpoint.  Oh well 

...just joshing.

But I think my point is valid. If Jesus never said jack-shit about homos (and was probably a homo himself), then why do Hypochristians latch on to outdated obsolete Mosaic Law so fervently in this particular case.


The Luke

[Butterbean]

...just joshing.

Oh!  Sorry

But I think my point is valid. If Jesus never said jack-shit about homos (and was probably a homo himself), then why do Hypochristians latch on to outdated obsolete Mosaic Law so fervently in this particular case.


The Luke

Actually homosexuality is condemned in the New Testament (ROmans, I think) but I don't ever recall reading Jesus saying anything about it specifically pinpointing and naming it.

Luke, I know a guy (who eventually got saved)that used to reject God specifically because he had gay friends and was angry that they were "condemned to hell" because of it. 

The guy was exposed to a bunch of idiot-teachings like the Westboro Church of D-Bags that have the Godhatesfags website. 

THese people do not represent the God of the Bible.  God loves homosexuals.  That being said I do not agree w/your assertion that Christ was one.

In any case, the fact that homosexuals engage in homosexual activity, according to the bible is a sin but so is lying or getting blasted or even gluttony!

Those WEstboro nuts came to my town and some of them were obese! 

God even loves those nuts.


I don't know why some "hypochristians" as you call them seem so obsessed w/them.  Maybe it's because they are more visible....who knows?

In any case God loves them

[The Luke]

THese people do not represent the God of the Bible.  God loves homosexuals.  That being said I do not agree w/your assertion that Christ was one.

...that same god who is a psychopathic genocidal monster throughout the Old Testament, only to send a thoroughly decent bloke on a suicide mission in the New Testament, then failed to intervene when literalist morons destroyed most of human culture in his name?

That asshole?


By the way, if someone introduced you to a 33 year-old virgin Jewish man, who still lived with his mother; palled around with slutty female "friend" he WASN'T banging, but mostly spent his time traveling around with twelve sailors... what would you think?

By the way, there supposedly was an early Christian cult dedicated to the secret homosexual teachings of Jebus.

Just saying... secret gospels of Mark and all that... just saying... the "young man whom Jesus loved"... just saying... the young naked guy wrapped in a tablecloth meeting Jesus in a public park at night... just saying... maybe there was a reason he didn't go out of his way to condemn queers... just saying, is all...


The Luke

[loco]

By the way, if someone introduced you to a 33 year-old virgin Jewish man, who still lived with his mother; palled around with slutty female "friend" he WASN'T banging, but mostly spent his time traveling around with twelve sailors... what would you think?

The Luke

Jesus said "I and The Father are one." 

You expect a father to bang his own daughters?  You accuse a father of being a homo for not banging his own daughters?  Don't you think that sick and twisted of you?

[The Luke]

Jesus said "I and The Father are one." 

You expect a father to bang his own daughters?  You accuse a father of being a homo for not banging his own daughters?  Don't you think that sick and twisted of you?

...I asked a hypothetical question about a hypothetical Jewish man.

You assumed I was referring to your personal zombie space daddy Jebus... quite a leap there. The kind of leap that some might consider a non-sequitur... some might even infer a chronic inability to differentiate context and subject from such a poor comprehension of context... some might infer such an IQ deficit, not me per say, but some might.


Can't you admit that most reasonable people would assume such a hypothetical Jewish man to be a ho-mo-sex-ual?

Can't you admit you might just be a little uncomfortable with your own saviours social demographic?

Not saying that statistically speaking it is far more likely such a hypothetical Jewish man is much more likely to be a commoner garden variety queer than the one and only physical embodiment of the one and only all powerful space daddy... not saying that, per say... but some might.


The Luke 

[tu_holmes]

The Luke, where did you get this information and why do you accept it as true?

Also can you tell me a little bit about your understanding of slavery back in those days?  Thanks!


What church?  If it's the Roman Catholic church I don't subscribe to their thinking.

But the Roman Catholic Church is the first Christian religion.

They are the people who put your Bible together in it's entirety in the first place.

How can you say you don't subscribe to their thinking when their thinking is the book you quote from?

[Butterbean]

...I asked a hypothetical question about a hypothetical Jewish man.

You assumed I was referring to your personal zombie space daddy Jebus... quite a leap there. The kind of leap that some might consider a non-sequitur... some might even infer a chronic inability to differentiate context and subject from such a poor comprehension of context... some might infer such an IQ deficit, not me per say, but some might.


Can't you admit that most reasonable people would assume such a hypothetical Jewish man to be a ho-mo-sex-ual?

Can't you admit you might just be a little uncomfortable with your own saviours social demographic?

Not saying that statistically speaking it is far more likely such a hypothetical Jewish man is much more likely to be a commoner garden variety queer than the one and only physical embodiment of the one and only all powerful space daddy... not saying that, per say... but some might.


The Luke 

You've got some funky information going The Luke!

But the Roman Catholic Church is the first Christian religion.

If you mean first Christian religion as in first Christian "faith,"  I tell ya, I don't agree.

How can you say you don't subscribe to their thinking when their thinking is the book you quote from?

The Roman Catholic church tends to rely on tradition etc. (and their traditions can change) and/or whatever they deem as true at a particular moment in time over and above believing the bible as truth. 

Just a couple examples the Roman Cath. church advocates which are in direct contrast w/scripture including:

Praying to dead people (an abomination according to the bible)
Mary as co-redeemer (not scriptural)  ............this one jacks with the Gospel Message...can't get much more wrong than that


Perhaps not all Catholic churches teach these inconsistencies though!  I hope not!....

[Decker]

Why the identity of a storybook figure is important today is beyond me.

Is everyone aware that Bruce Wayne is Batman?

B/c of religion, as embodied in didactic parables in those books, we have seriously demented people out there.  But for the nonsense of those books, there is no middle east problem b/c there is no 'sacred' land. 

Some people don't know where the story ends and life begins.

You want the identity of the anti-christ, ok...here he is:

&feature=related

[tu_holmes]

You've got some funky information going The Luke!


If you mean first Christian religion as in first Christian "faith,"  I tell ya, I don't agree.


The Roman Catholic church tends to rely on tradition etc. (and their traditions can change) and/or whatever they deem as true at a particular moment in time over and above believing the bible as truth. 

Just a couple examples the Roman Cath. church advocates which are in direct contrast w/scripture including:

Praying to dead people (an abomination according to the bible)
Mary as co-redeemer (not scriptural)  ............this one jacks with the Gospel Message...can't get much more wrong than that


Perhaps not all Catholic churches teach these inconsistencies though!  I hope not!....

Disagree if you want, but the history of the Catholic church is the longest history of the Christian faith. Time = Origin.

Also, The Catholic church put together the Bible... They picked and chose what books to join together to create it... How can you say you don't subscribe to their belief when the Bible you are quoting was created by them?

[Deicide]

Disagree if you want, but the history of the Catholic church is the longest history of the Christian faith. Time = Origin.

Also, The Catholic church put together the Bible... They picked and chose what books to join together to create it... How can you say you don't subscribe to their belief when the Bible you are quoting was created by them?

Word.

[The Luke]

Also, The Catholic church put together the Bible... They picked and chose what books to join together to create it... How can you say you don't subscribe to their belief when the Bible you are quoting was created by them?

...excellent point.

When Constantine convened the Council of Nicea in 325 AD, he pretty much locked all the Christian patriarchs in a room till they came to some kind of agreement.

This compromise result was the New Testament as we know it today.


But consider what they discarded... 76 alternate gospels, some of which have been recovered via the Dead Sea Scrolls, Nag Hammadi Library, Cathar/Bogomil/Albigensian/Aryan literature, the Quumran texts etc etc:
-the Gospel of Mary Magdalene (in which the Magdalene is Jesus' wife/secret apostle/successor)
-the Gospel of Thomas (where Jesus survives the crucifixion only to retire in Pakistan)
-another Gospel of Thomas (in which Thomas is Jesus' twin brother)
-the Gospel of Pontius Pilate (in which Pilate was a Christian true believer)
-the Gospel of Judas Iscariot (in which Judas is ordered by Jesus to betray him)
-the "Secret" Gospel of Mark (for higher initiates, detailing supposedly homosexual rituals)

None of these gospels are self-consistent, most can't even agree on the names of the twelve disciples... and that's not including the wealth of associated midrash literature.


If you choose to distance yourself from Vatican thinking despite it's history as the main branch of Christian thought (as some of the apologists here insist upon doing), you have to be very, very careful of the company you're keeping... traditionally those Christians who had access to the full canon of texts and adhered to the teachings of such texts differed significantly from Vatican thinking.

These "True Christians": The Aryans; Bogomils and Cathars (practically the same group), Albigensians, Old Believers and Hibernian Church, while thoroughly Christian in their attitude and conduct, being far more charitable, tolerant, egalitarian and observant of Christ's message... they didn't necessarily believe in:
-the virgin birth
-the immaculate conception
-Jesus being celibate
-Jesus being god
-Jesus being the "son of god"
-Jesus rising from the dead
-Jesus being crucified
-Jesus being assumed bodily into heaven
-Jesus being a real historical person
-Jesus being anything other than an allegorical example for humankind

...so if you believe the canonical gospels to be LITERALLY true, then it ought give you pause that the majority of Christians throughout Christian history were far better informed regarding the nature of the Jesus, and the vast majority of them had come to the conclusion that Jesus was mythological.


The Luke

[laurion]

The neverending discussion.............. .................. i wish i never posted this thread, it won't go away from my "new replies.." list.  Like all religious discussions, the points have all been made no one is changing their minds, please stop now...

[Deicide]

The neverending discussion.............. .................. i wish i never posted this thread, it won't go away from my "new replies.." list.  Like all religious discussions, the points have all been made no one is changing their minds, please stop now...

Blame it on the fundies...

[Hedgehog]

Now for an interesting question, or rather... lets say hypothetical situation, for those of you who believe there is an Anti-Christ:

There is a new-born baby, and you would get information that made you absolutely sure, no doubts in the world, that the baby was the Anti-Christ.

You happen to know where the baby is, and you also have free access to it.

And have the tools to kill it.

You know that once the baby grows up, the chance is gone.

Would you kill the baby?

[Deicide]

Now for an interesting question, or rather... lets say hypothetical situation, for those of you who believe there is an Anti-Christ:

There is a new-born baby, and you would get information that made you absolutely sure, no doubts in the world, that the baby was the Anti-Christ.

You happen to know where the baby is, and you also have free access to it.

And have the tools to kill it.

You know that once the baby grows up, the chance is gone.

Would you kill the baby?

I am sure this is a real dilemma for these nutters.

[tu_holmes]

I am sure this is a real dilemma for these nutters.

What if Roe v. Wade has already killed or will kill the Anti-Christ... what about that?

[The Luke]

What if Roe v. Wade has already killed or will kill the Anti-Christ... what about that?

...haha!

The real question is... seeing as Jebus Christ essentially destroyed world culture and replaced it with the unenlightened anti-intellectual anti-knowledge literalist dogma of Christianity which in turn lead to the Inquisition; Dark Ages; suppression of alchemy; suppression of critical thought; suppression of science and stifling of human progression, only to repay us with a paradigm of brutality, guilt and sexual repression...

Considering all this... shouldn't we be hoping for the Antichrist?


The Luke

[Hedgehog]

Actually, I think the question is a pretty interesting one.

There are quite a few aspects on it as well for the Christian faithful.

[loco]

...haha!

The real question is... seeing as Jebus Christ essentially destroyed world culture and replaced it with the unenlightened anti-intellectual anti-knowledge literalist dogma of Christianity which in turn lead to the Inquisition; Dark Ages; suppression of alchemy; suppression of critical thought; suppression of science and stifling of human progression, only to repay us with a paradigm of brutality, guilt and sexual repression...

Considering all this... shouldn't we be hoping for the Antichrist?


The Luke

 

Christianity played a prominent role in the shaping of Western civilization, abolishing slavery in the west, the invention of the printing press, promoting literacy around the world, and much much more.

[Deicide]

Christianity played a prominent role in the shaping of Western civilization, abolishing slavery in the west, the invention of the printing, promoting literacy around the world, and much much more.

By default it shaped the West; no one had a choice but to listen to the Church.

Abolishing slavery? You are concocting something there...

None of the other things you mention has anything whatsoever to do with Christianity...I am starting to doubt your sanity Loco.

[loco]

By default it shaped the West; no one had a choice but to listen to the Church.

Abolishing slavery? You are concocting something there...

None of the other things you mention has anything whatsoever to do with Christianity...I am starting to doubt your sanity Loco.

Are you saying these Christians had nothing to do with abolishing slavery?

America:
John Brown
Frederick Douglass
Abraham Lincoln
 
Britain:
William Wilberforce
Granville Sharp
Thomas Clarkson


Contribution to World Literacy
There are Christian organizations which send missionaries to parts of the world where these missionaries translate the Bible into the locals' language and then teach them how to read it.  They also go into parts of the world where people have a spoken language, but no written language.  These organizations learn the spoken language, create a written language from it, then translate the Bible into this new written language, and finally teach these people their new written language.  Wycliffe Bible Translators is one of these Christian organizations. 

I'm surprised that you, Deicide, of all people have never heard of them, given your skills and career choice!

The Printing Press and its contribution to the rapid development in the sciences and art
Johannes Gutenberg invented the printing press with replaceable/moveable wooden or metal letters in 1436 (completed by 1440). This method of printing can be credited not only for a revolution in the production of books, but also for fostering rapid development in the sciences, arts and religion through the transmission of texts.

Johannes Gutenberg is also accredited with printing the world's first book using movable type, the 42-line (the number of lines per page) Gutenberg Bible.