Who is the Anti-Christ?

[Butterbean]

Some comments from gotquestions.org

Question: "Who is the antichrist?"

Answer: There is much speculation about the identity of the antichrist. Some of the more popular targets are Vladimir Putin, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, and Pope Benedict XVI. In the United States, former President Bill Clinton, current President George Bush, and president-elect Barack Obama are the most frequent candidates. So, who is the antichrist, and how will we recognize him?

The Bible really does not say anything specific about where the antichrist will come from. Many Bible scholars speculate that he will come from a confederacy of ten nations and/or a reborn Roman empire (Daniel 7:24-25; Revelation 17:7). Others see him as being a Jew since he would have to be in order to claim to be the Messiah. It is all just speculation since the Bible does not specifically say where the antichrist will come from or what race he will be. One day, the antichrist will be revealed. 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 tells us how we will recognize the antichrist: "Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God."

It is likely that most people who are alive when the antichrist is revealed will be very surprised at his identity. The antichrist may or may not be alive today. Martin Luther was convinced that the pope in his time was the antichrist. Others who have lived in the past few hundred years have been equally sure as to the identity of the antichrist. So far, they have all been incorrect. We should put the speculations behind us and focus on what the Bible actually says about the antichrist. Revelation 13:5-8 declares, "The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise his authority for forty-two months. He opened his mouth to blaspheme God, and to slander his name and his dwelling place and those who live in heaven. He was given power to make war against the saints and to conquer them. And he was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation. All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast--all whose names have not been written in the book of life belonging to the Lamb that was slain from the creation of the world."


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Recommended Resource: Understanding End Times Prophecy by Paul Benware

[The Luke]

The "Antichrist" referred to in the Book of Revelations is either of the Roman Emperors Caligula or Nero... depending on when the text was written.

Here's a section of a post of mine from the "Anything original in the Jesus story?" thread which explains it rather succinctly:

The earliest copies of the Book of Revelations (written during Caligula's pogroms) refer to "the number of the Beast" being the number of a man, and that number being 661... if you write out Gaius Ceasar (Caligula was only his nickname) in Greek, but treat the letters as numerals and add up all the figures it comes to 661, this is known as Gemmatria code and was common practice among Jewish Kabbalist mystics.

Later, during the reign of Nero, this number was changed to 666... if you write out Ceasar Nero (as he was known) in Greek, but treat the letters as numerals and add up all the figures it comes to 666, using Gemmatria code. Claudius openly tolerated Christians and dismissed their refusal to swear allegiance to him, his number is not in any extant copy of Revelations.

...end-of-thread.


The Luke

[Butterbean]

The "Antichrist" referred to in the Book of Revelations is either of the Roman Emperors Caligula or Nero... depending on when the text was written.

Here's a section of a post of mine from the "Anything original in the Jesus story?" thread which explains it rather succinctly:

...end-of-thread.


The Luke

Hi The Luke!
I find it interesting that you seem to be very confident in your knowledge of the bible when previously I've asked you to state scripture you've referenced and you can't seem to find it.

Not a flame, just a question:  Do you base your knowledge of the bible upon reading the bible itself or classes or other books or other people's viewpoints and interpretations?

Also, when you say "Book of Revelations" to what are you referring?   

[The Luke]

Also, when you say "Book of Revelations" to what are you referring?   

...perhaps I should ask you how you deem me unable to quote scripture when you yourself don't know what the Book of Revelations is? (not a flame either)

It should be obvious to those who have read the description of the Antichrist that it refers to the Roman Empire (albeit in a coded way).


The Luke

[Deedee]

"The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise his authority for forty-two months."

The anti-christ is my ex-boss. 

Not having to do with this thread, hope your life is good and doing well STells... 

[Butterbean]

...perhaps I should ask you how you deem me unable to quote scripture when you yourself don't know what the Book of Revelations is? (not a flame either)

Luke, there is no "S" at the end of (The Book of) Revelation in the bible.  Just making sure that is what you are talking about or not.

The anti-christ is my ex-boss. 

Not having to do with this thread, hope your life is good and doing well STells... 

Deedles!!!!!     

I'm fine thanks!  Hope you are well too!!


How about some boss stories on the Open Talk board

[laurion]

"ANTI Christ" or against Christ refers to Anyone "ANTI Christ"

Thanks, come again.

[The Luke]

Luke, there is no "S" at the end of (The Book of) Revelation in the bible.  Just making sure that is what you are talking about or not.

...that's a matter of translation.

Too many American Evangelicals, (not a flame if you are one) people like McWay and Loco on this board, tend to quote new translations of the gospels. Which of course leads to the question whether a text originally written in Hebrew; Greek or Aramaic, then translated to either Greek or Latin, then translated to Middle English, then translated to Eighteenth Century English, then translated/updated to modern colloquial English can still be considered the LITERAL unquestionable truth.

Let me give you a few examples that might explain why discussions of the Antichrist's identity are moot.

Mistranslations in the Bible:
-the "band of men" who arrest Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemene; it's actually a "garrison": 600 men
-James, the "man whom Jesus loved"... need I say more?
-Bethlehem: no such town till the 4th century... it means "House of Bread" and is the Hebrew name for the constellation of Virgo (also known as "The Virgin")
-Barabbas... it's actually "Bar-Abba": the son of the father, he's not a real person. Pilate asks the crowd whether he should prosecute Jesus as the son of god (blasphemy) or as the son of man (a common insurrectionist). This dichotomy is explained in the Gospel of Judas.
-Judas Iscariot: no such surname... it translates as "knife man"
-Adam (the first man) means: "Red Clay"... he is a symbol/metaphor for the Third Race, a common mythological allegory
-the references to "creating man in OUR own image" and "let there be light" etc etc... Who is God talking to? Well obviously, based on the grammar and syntax, most language experts agree with the folklorists who assert Yahmeh is speaking to both his feminine consort Astarte and the other Elohim (Zodiac constellations)... later excised by monotheists.
-Jerubaal, one of the Judges, actually means "Glory of Baal" just as Hercules means "Glory of Hera"... this highlights the role of Yahweh as a localised "boxed" djinn rather than a supreme being. The Hebrew clans were openly worshiping Baal when away from Yahweh's magic tent.
-"Moses" means lawgiver, just as "Tothmoses" means "Lawgiver of Thoth"; "Ramses" means "Lawgiver of Ra", "Amon" the Egyptian god whose name ends each prayer: "Amon let it be so" is the origin of the phrase "Amen" etc

...it's pointless to speculate as to the identity of the Antichrist without considering the "prophecies" in their original language; original political context and original colloquialisms.

The Antichrist is either Caligula or Nero... both men are long dead, as is the Empire they ran.


The Luke

[laurion]

Agreed The Luke they were both antichrist

[The Luke]

Agreed The Luke they were both antichrist

...I think you are playing wordgames.


The Luke

[laurion]

...I think you are playing wordgames.


The Luke

or word games 

[Deedee]

Deedles!!!!!     

I'm fine thanks!  Hope you are well too!!

I'm good, just popping in and out. 

How about some boss stories on the Open Talk board

I'd be spamming the board    but it is a good topic. Everyone's worked with the antichrist I think!!

[NaturalWonder83]

hey guys
serious questions here:
what exactly will happen when the anti christ is revealed? will that mean the end of the world?
i keep hearing stuff about 2012 being the end of the world-kinda freaking me out

is it possible the anti christ might not know that he is the anti christ?

Gene

[loco]

Too many American Evangelicals, (not a flame if you are one) people like McWay and Loco on this board, tend to quote new translations of the gospels. Which of course leads to the question whether a text originally written in Hebrew; Greek or Aramaic, then translated to either Greek or Latin, then translated to Middle English, then translated to Eighteenth Century English, then translated/updated to modern colloquial English can still be considered the LITERAL unquestionable truth.

The Luke

Get your facts straight, young Skywalker!

I'm not an American.

I read the Bible daily, sometimes in one English translation, some times in another English translation, some times in one Spanish translation and some times in another Spanish translation.  They all say the same thing, just in different languages.

I tend to quote from the New International Version(NIV) because it is a modern English translation which is easier to read and understand by modern English speaking people than the old King James English is.  There is nothing wrong with that.

The NIV is a completely new translation of the Bible made by 100 scholars working directly from the best available Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek texts. 

The core translation group consisted of fifteen Biblical scholars. The translation took ten years and involved a team up to 100 people from the USA, Canada, the United Kingdom, Australia, New Zealand, and South Africa. The range of those participating included over twenty different denominations such as Baptists, Methodists, Lutherans, Anglicans, Assemblies of God, Brethren, Christian Reformed, Church of Christ, Evangelical Free, Mennonites, Nazarenes, Presbyterians, Wesleyan and more. That they were from so many different denominations helped to safeguard the translation from sectarian bias.

[The Luke]

Loco,


Read the Nag Hammadi texts; the Dead Sea Scrolls and read the documents supporting the hypothesis that the Jesus story is a myth. (Gandy and Freke's excellent book lists all of these)

A quality translation of limited documents gives a false sense of consistency.

The entire Christian canon has been rewritten several times.


The Luke

[loco]

Loco,


Read the Nag Hammadi texts; the Dead Sea Scrolls and read the documents supporting the hypothesis that the Jesus story is a myth. (Gandy and Freke's excellent book lists all of these)

A quality translation of limited documents gives a false sense of consistency.

The entire Christian canon has been rewritten several times.


The Luke

That is already being discussed in a different thread.  I was simply responding to your post above.

[Deicide]

Who is the antichrist?

A figment of your imagination...

[Hedgehog]

STella, what makes you think there even is an anti-Christ in the first place?

[Deicide]

STella, what makes you think there even is an anti-Christ in the first place?

Good question.

[Hedgehog]

STella, what makes you think there even is an anti-Christ in the first place?

Bump for answer.

[The Luke]

STella, what makes you think there even is an anti-Christ in the first place?

...'cos it says so in Santa's Bumper Book of Jewish Fairytales?


The Luke

[loco]

Sir George Bernard Shaw in 'The Genuine Islam,' Vol. 1, No. 8, 1936.

"If any religion had the chance of ruling over England, nay Europe within the next hundred years, it could be Islam."

“I have always held the religion of Muhammad in high estimation because of its wonderful vitality. It is the only religion which appears to me to possess that assimilating capacity to the changing phase of existence which can make itself appeal to every age. I have studied him - the wonderful man and in my opinion for from being an anti-Christ, he must be called the Savior of Humanity."

"I believe that if a man like him were to assume the dictatorship of the modern world he would succeed in solving its problems in a way that would bring it the much needed peace and happiness: I have prophesied about the faith of Muhammad that it would be acceptable to the Europe of tomorrow as it is beginning to be acceptable to the Europe of today.”

[Hedgehog]

Thanks to both The Luke and loco for replying, especially loco, very interesting reference.
Will look into that more.
But my question was for the thread starter.
STella, what makes you think there even is an anti-Christ in the first place?

[Hedgehog]

STella, what makes you think there even is an anti-Christ in the first place?
 
Thanks for taking the time to answer:)

[Deicide]

STella, what makes you think there even is an anti-Christ in the first place?
 
Thanks for taking the time to answer:)

Stella is nice enough but she doesn't even take a smidgen of time to question her beliefs or answer questions that would rub her faith the wrong way.