Author Topic: Brown clouds over Asia pose new threat to planet: UN  (Read 2662 times)

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Brown clouds over Asia pose new threat to planet: UN
« on: November 19, 2008, 07:49:41 PM »
Brown clouds over Asia pose new threat to planet: UN
Thu Nov 13, 12:00 PM

WINNIPEG (CBC) - A brown haze of soot, particles and chemicals that hangs over parts of Asia is darkening cities, melting glaciers in the Himalayas and making weather systems more extreme, the United Nations said Thursday.

Scientists who have studied the thick brown clouds, which they estimate to be more than three kilometres thick, said the haze stretches from the Arabian Peninsula to China and the Western Pacific Ocean. It is officially known as atmospheric brown clouds.

The scientists, who come from China, India, Europe and the U.S., said in a new report commissioned by the UN Environment Program that the brown clouds are aggravating the impact of climate change caused by greenhouse gases in some regions.

They said they are issuing the warning now about the brown haze because it is a "serious and significant" environmental challenge facing the planet that poses a threat to human health and food production.

"Imagine for a moment a three-kilometer-thick band of soot, particles, a cocktail of chemicals that stretches from the Arabic Peninsula to Asia," Achim Steiner, UN undersecretary general and executive director of the program, said during a news conference on the findings.

"All of this points to an even greater and urgent need to look at emissions across the planet, because this is where the stories are linked in terms of greenhouse emissions and particle emissions and the impact that they're having on our global climate," he said.

The brown clouds have darkened 13 cities in Asia, including Beijing, Shanghai, Bangkok, Cairo, Mumbai, New Delhi and Tehran, "dimming" sunlight in some places by as much as 25 per cent.

The brown clouds, produced by the burning of fossil fuels, wood and plants, form particles like black carbon and soot that absorb sunlight and warm the air, enhancing the greenhouse effect.

Scientists, however, said the brown clouds also "mask" the warming impacts of climate change by an average of 40 per cent because they contain particles that reflect sunlight and cool the earth's surface.

According to the report, the phenomenon has been studied closely in Asia, but it is not unique to the region, with brown clouds seen over parts of North America, Europe, southern Africa and the Amazon Basin.

The scientists said the brown clouds are having a negative impact on air quality and agricultural production in Asia with risks to human health increasing. Health problems associated with the brown clouds include cardiovascular and respiratory diseases.

Veerabhadran Ramanathan, head of the scientific panel that is carrying out the research and a professor at the Scripps Institution of Oceanography at the University of California in San Diego, said the huge cloud masses can cross continents in the space of three to four days.

It's not a regional issue, but a global one, he said.

"The main message is that it's a global problem. This is not a problem where we point fingers at our neighbours. Everyone is in someone else's backyard," Ramanathan said.

He said one of most serious problems noted in the report is melting of the Hindu Kush-Himalaya-Tibetan glaciers, which provide the head-waters for the major river systems including the Ganges, Brahmaputra, Mekong and Yangtze rivers.

The Ganges basin, for example, is home to more than 400 million people and holds 40 per cent of India's irrigated croplands.

He said the melting has "serious implications for the water and food security of Asia."

The Chinese Academy of Sciences estimates that the glaciers have shrunk five per cent since the 1950s and the volume of China's nearly 47,000 glaciers has fallen by 3,000 square kilometres over the past quarter century.

The brown clouds also have helped decrease the monsoon season in India. The weather extremes caused by the clouds may have also helped to reduce production of crops such as rice, wheat and soybean, according to the report.

Ramanathan said he hopes the report "triggers" an international response to the problems of greenhouse gases and brown clouds and the "unsustainable development" that underlies them both.

"The new research, by identifying some of the causal factors, offers hope for taking actions to slow down this disturbing phenomenon," he said.
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Re: Brown clouds over Asia pose new threat to planet: UN
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2008, 10:56:22 PM »
Your fuel caps will save us all!  :-* :-*

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Re: Brown clouds over Asia pose new threat to planet: UN
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2008, 11:02:04 PM »
I see "brown clouds" every time I drive by Compton.

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Re: Brown clouds over Asia pose new threat to planet: UN
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2008, 06:04:09 AM »
Your fuel caps will save us all!  :-* :-*

China will never sign any climate agreements, yet the morons in this country want to impose even tougher rules on our own economy which is vastly cleaner than China's.


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Re: Brown clouds over Asia pose new threat to planet: UN
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2008, 08:11:49 AM »
Your fuel caps will save us all!  :-* :-*

Well when you consider the fact that they reduce emissions in the form of particulate matter and Oxides of nitrogen by up to 75% and more, they will have a considerable impact. i think the most immediate impact that people will notice however, is their ability to pass emissions. With the lack of federal monies at the ready, many states will have to generate revenue somehow, ...and many are looking to motorists to fund maintenance of roads, highways, and other infrastructure.  More and more states are adopting stricter EPA guidelines similar to California's. Recently in NY they randomly tested 200 trucks. Of those 137 failed. Fines of $335 were incurred. If the problem was not fixed by the 2nd test, the fine increases tenfold. Trucks emitting particulate matter are going to be big revenue generators for many states, and yes we can address that.
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Re: Brown clouds over Asia pose new threat to planet: UN
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2008, 08:17:49 AM »
Well when you consider the fact that they reduce emissions in the form of particulate matter and Oxides of nitrogen by up to 75% and more, they will have a considerable impact. i think the most immediate impact that people will notice however, is their ability to pass emissions. With the lack of federal monies at the ready, many states will have to generate revenue somehow, ...and many are looking to motorists to fund maintenance of roads, highways, and other infrastructure.  More and more states are adopting stricter EPA guidelines similar to California's. Recently in NY they randomly tested 200 trucks. Of those 137 failed. Fines of $335 were incurred. If the problem was not fixed by the 2nd test, the fine increases tenfold. Trucks emitting particulate matter are going to be big revenue generators for many states, and yes we can address that.

Oh, and who do you think the costs will get passed on to?????????????????????

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Re: Brown clouds over Asia pose new threat to planet: UN
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2008, 08:22:02 AM »
China will never sign any climate agreements, yet the morons in this country want to impose even tougher rules on our own economy which is vastly cleaner than China's.



So because china isn't doing anything at all that makes it ok for us not to strive to get better?

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Re: Brown clouds over Asia pose new threat to planet: UN
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2008, 09:54:00 AM »
So because china isn't doing anything at all that makes it ok for us not to strive to get better?

While our economy is in the toilet, it is suicide to place more shackles around our ankles with onerous regulations based upon dubious science.

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Re: Brown clouds over Asia pose new threat to planet: UN
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2008, 09:59:32 AM »
While our economy is in the toilet, it is suicide to place more shackles around our ankles with onerous regulations based upon dubious science.



Global warming is dubious science, the effects of pollution isn't.  We should insist companies follow strict sensible guidelines.  The cost will always be passed down to the consumer as always.

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Re: Brown clouds over Asia pose new threat to planet: UN
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2008, 10:28:10 AM »


Global warming is dubious science, the effects of pollution isn't.  We should insist companies follow strict sensible guidelines.  The cost will always be passed down to the consumer as always.

We already have many regulations and do business in a far cleaner way than most countries.  Russia, India, and China are far worse polluters than the USA and they will never sign on to stupidity like the KYOTO protocols or other garbage treaties.


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Re: Brown clouds over Asia pose new threat to planet: UN
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2008, 10:35:01 AM »
We already have many regulations and do business in a far cleaner way than most countries.  Russia, India, and China are far worse polluters than the USA and they will never sign on to stupidity like the KYOTO protocols or other garbage treaties.



I'm not arguing that we are not cleaner than anyone else, what I'm saying is that we are not as clean as we need to be.

But implying that we shouldn't do more because no one else is, is a cop out.  If they want to have rivers unfit for fish or smog alert days that make it unsafe to go outdoors then that's on them.  but when their pollution starts affecting our country then something needs to be done.  and we can do something.   International pressure, UN pressure and the threat of sanctions, embargos, trade wars etc..

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Re: Brown clouds over Asia pose new threat to planet: UN
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2008, 10:43:33 AM »
We already have many regulations and do business in a far cleaner way than most countries.  Russia, India, and China are far worse polluters than the USA and they will never sign on to stupidity like the KYOTO protocols or other garbage treaties.

That's like sitting in the McDonalds Drive thru at 25% bodyfat... making fun of the guy in the car behind you at 40% bodyfat, for being a lardass...

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Re: Brown clouds over Asia pose new threat to planet: UN
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2008, 10:47:39 AM »
That's like sitting in the McDonalds Drive thru at 25% bodyfat... making fun of the guy in the car behind you at 40% bodyfat, for being a lardass...

Then afterwards, ordering 4 quarter pounders without cheese, small fries and a diet coke.   ;D

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Re: Brown clouds over Asia pose new threat to planet: UN
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2008, 10:57:14 AM »
Then afterwards, ordering 4 quarter pounders without cheese, small fries and a diet coke.   ;D

Wait, what?  The Diet Coke doesn't offset everything?!  Aw crap...........
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Re: Brown clouds over Asia pose new threat to planet: UN
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2008, 11:13:29 AM »
We cannot handicap ourselves by self imposed tough restrictions when other countries, who are competing, don't play by the same rules.  This is where the UN could be helpful.  Force all nations to abide by certain pollution standards.  If China, Japan, India and the rest of Asia aren't cleaning up their act, the initiatives we take will be of limited value.  We pay enough into the UN to get something out of it!

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Re: Brown clouds over Asia pose new threat to planet: UN
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2008, 11:13:43 AM »
Then afterwards, ordering 4 quarter pounders without cheese, small fries and a diet coke.   ;D

Hey, apple pies contain fruit.  They must be good for you!

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Re: Brown clouds over Asia pose new threat to planet: UN
« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2008, 11:19:23 AM »
I'm not arguing that we are not cleaner than anyone else, what I'm saying is that we are not as clean as we need to be.

But implying that we shouldn't do more because no one else is, is a cop out.  If they want to have rivers unfit for fish or smog alert days that make it unsafe to go outdoors then that's on them.  but when their pollution starts affecting our country then something needs to be done.  and we can do something.   International pressure, UN pressure and the threat of sanctions, embargos, trade wars etc..

We tried that and it does not work.  Do you want a shooting war with China????

Your ideas would force millions of their citizens onto the unemployment line since they would not be able to operate any industry.  Neither would India or Russia who are trying to get themselves to 1st world status.  Shutting down industries is not the way to do it. 


Soul Crusher

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Re: Brown clouds over Asia pose new threat to planet: UN
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2008, 11:21:00 AM »
That's like sitting in the McDonalds Drive thru at 25% bodyfat... making fun of the guy in the car behind you at 40% bodyfat, for being a lardass...

Nonsense.  We are moving in the right direction without having UN mandates.  By all measures we are cleaner and doing business in a cleaner fashion than ever.

The doom and gloom by the envirofreaks is fear-mongering at its worst. 

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Re: Brown clouds over Asia pose new threat to planet: UN
« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2008, 12:11:41 PM »
We tried that and it does not work.  Do you want a shooting war with China????

Your ideas would force millions of their citizens onto the unemployment line since they would not be able to operate any industry.  Neither would India or Russia who are trying to get themselves to 1st world status.  Shutting down industries is not the way to do it. 



If done right, with world support from strong economic countries, it will not lead to war.

My idea would require change.  Change never happens without pain.  Nothing progresses without change.

that's why they should just let the Auto industry run it's course so that the "change" produces a better ran  auto company with less greedy unions.

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Re: Brown clouds over Asia pose new threat to planet: UN
« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2008, 12:19:57 PM »
"that's why they should just let the Auto industry run it's course so that the "change" produces a better ran  auto company with less greedy unions."

Absolutely, and re-examine executive salaries....tie them to company profits.

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Re: Brown clouds over Asia pose new threat to planet: UN
« Reply #20 on: November 20, 2008, 12:26:34 PM »
Well when you consider the fact that they reduce emissions in the form of particulate matter and Oxides of nitrogen by up to 75% and more, they will have a considerable impact. i think the most immediate impact that people will notice however, is their ability to pass emissions. With the lack of federal monies at the ready, many states will have to generate revenue somehow, ...and many are looking to motorists to fund maintenance of roads, highways, and other infrastructure.  More and more states are adopting stricter EPA guidelines similar to California's. Recently in NY they randomly tested 200 trucks. Of those 137 failed. Fines of $335 were incurred. If the problem was not fixed by the 2nd test, the fine increases tenfold. Trucks emitting particulate matter are going to be big revenue generators for many states, and yes we can address that.

 ::)

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Re: Brown clouds over Asia pose new threat to planet: UN
« Reply #21 on: November 20, 2008, 12:31:07 PM »
Quote
Some of you are thinking you won't fight. Others, that you can't fight, they all say that, until they're out there. [He picks up a sword.] Thrust this into another man's chest, and the crowd will applaud and love you for it. In time, you may even begin to love them for that. Ultimately, we're all dead men. Sadly, we cannot choose how, but…we can decide how we meet that end, so that we are remembered…as men.
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Re: Brown clouds over Asia pose new threat to planet: UN
« Reply #22 on: November 20, 2008, 12:50:59 PM »
I'm not arguing that we are not cleaner than anyone else, what I'm saying is that we are not as clean as we need to be.

But implying that we shouldn't do more because no one else is, is a cop out.  If they want to have rivers unfit for fish or smog alert days that make it unsafe to go outdoors then that's on them.  but when their pollution starts affecting our country then something needs to be done.  and we can do something.   International pressure, UN pressure and the threat of sanctions, embargos, trade wars etc..

This was one of the key points Stéphane Dion was trying to address inhis Liberal party platform in our last election.
He was quite concerned that Canada would be placed at a disadvantage in yrs to come because of our increasing pollution problem. He knew that eventually countries will adopt a more responsible way of doing business and will no longer turn a blind eye to nations that do not do their part to ensure a cleaner environment. Just as there were those who boycotted SA because of apartheid, ...there will be those that will boycott those not part of Kyoto. country will have to reduce their carbon footprint in order to take full advantage of a global economy.
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Re: Brown clouds over Asia pose new threat to planet: UN
« Reply #23 on: November 20, 2008, 12:53:37 PM »
This was one of the key points Stéphane Dion was trying to address inhis Liberal party platform in our last election.
He was quite concerned that Canada would be placed at a disadvantage in yrs to come because of our increasing pollution problem. He knew that eventually countries will adopt a more responsible way of doing business and will no longer turn a blind eye to nations that do not do their part to ensure a cleaner environment. Just as there were those who boycotted SA because of apartheid, ...there will be those that will boycott those not part of Kyoto. country will have to reduce their carbon footprint in order to take full advantage of a global economy.

You are hardcore Judy.
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24KT

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Re: Brown clouds over Asia pose new threat to planet: UN
« Reply #24 on: November 20, 2008, 12:56:50 PM »
You are hardcore Judy.

Is hardcore your new word of the day, week, month? ???
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