TEST = NO LIBIDO

[Luv2Hurt]

maybe the DHEA is too low bro, I am taking 2 100mg pills a day

Really?  Yeah could be, I guess 50 mg is a conservative dose. I think i will double it 

[Exal]

if you decide to get too liberal with the dhea i sure hope you are using a serm or any kind of weak anti e

[Stavios]

if you decide to get too liberal with the dhea i sure hope you are using a serm or any kind of weak anti e

why ?

at 200mg I don't feel I would need  an anti e

[Luv2Hurt]

if you decide to get too liberal with the dhea i sure hope you are using a serm or any kind of weak anti e

Yes it appears in the info i have on it that DHEA will increase test and therefore aromatase.  Im really sceptical about this though and if it does i would think the increase would be small.

So no anti-E here right now also on about 600mg test e a week.  Will see how things go.

[DIVISION]

here is what Dr Crisler wrote on HCG:

It is important that no more than 500IU of HCG be administered on any given day. There is only just so much stimulation possible, and exceeding that not only is wasteful, doing so has important negative consequences. Higher doses overly stimulate -*test*-('")icular aromatase, which inappropriately raises estrogen levels, and brings on the detrimental effects of same

I always injected 2500 IU twice a week, for 2 week after each cycle !!! 
my balls must be fucked up

Stavios, your nuts might be in permanent decline.   

I'd go lower than the doctor recommends, probably 300IU or so every three to four days.

Any more than that and you're simply oversaturating the HPTA and risking estrogen rebound.

You need to keep the frequency at three to five days in between injections as well.


DIV

[tbombz]

Stavios, your nuts might be in permanent decline.   

I'd go lower than the doctor recommends, probably 300IU or so every three to four days.

Any more than that and you're simply oversaturating the HPTA and risking estrogen rebound.

You need to keep the frequency at three to five days in between injections as well.


DIV

500iu e3d is the optimal dose, thats not risking anything at all. and there isnt any negatives to high estrogen other than water retentionand a slight shift in whereyour body stores fat (not how much, but just where)..other than that estrogen is a great thing to have.

[DIVISION]

500iu e3d is the optimal dose, thats not risking anything at all. and there isnt any negatives to high estrogen other than water retentionand a slight shift in whereyour body stores fat (not how much, but just where)..other than that estrogen is a great thing to have.

Are you seriously arguing with me?

Have you not learned?

You have neither the experience nor rep to counter me in any way, even in terms of supplements.

When you actually start using AAS, let us know..........but keep your advice to yourself.

I'm about to make a "Tbombz" sticky advising all newbies to disregard your comments.

Experience is everything, google is nothing. 

The next time there is a Waxy Maize giveaway, I'll be sure to let you know!   


DIV

[Stavios]

Stavios, your nuts might be in permanent decline.   

I'd go lower than the doctor recommends, probably 300IU or so every three to four days.

Any more than that and you're simply oversaturating the HPTA and risking estrogen rebound.

You need to keep the frequency at three to five days in between injections as well.


DIV

I don't use any HCG right now, last time I used it was after my cycle in august.

my balls seem fine now, thanks god !! I wasn't even sure I still had balls back in july 

now I'll do 250 IU  2 times a week of HCG during every cycle

[tbombz]

Are you seriously arguing with me?

Have you not learned?

You have neither the experience nor rep to counter me in any way, even in terms of supplements.

When you actually start using AAS, let us know..........but keep your advice to yourself.

I'm about to make a "Tbombz" sticky advising all newbies to disregard your comments.

Experience is everything, google is nothing. 

The next time there is a Waxy Maize giveaway, I'll be sure to let you know!   


DIV

500iu e3d is common knowledge.

[Exal]

if you wish to permanently fuck up your nuts sure

[tbombz]

if you wish to permanently fuck up your nuts sure

hi division 

[Luv2Hurt]

500iu e3d is common knowledge.

There is no real science or recommended dose for this.  I have heard 500IU E3D protocol but some say to try and use a bit less as not to desensitize the LH receptors, because the natural dose is quite low. You do not want to desensitize the LH receptors (if you even can is also open to debate) because when its time to return to homeostasis the small natural LH output that starts to occur in time will not be enough to trigger a response or have much effect.  This will prolong the period where your body is not producing any LH-test. When someone thought this theory up they went with 500 IU cause it seemed like a reasonable but not too large a dose.  They also took into consideration HCG's half life.

No real facts on this therapy, its kind of trial, error and the best logic you can come up with.

[Emmortal]

There is no real science or recommended dose for this.  I have heard 500IU E3D protocol but some say to try and use a bit less as not to desensitize the LH receptors, because the natural dose is quite low. You do not want to desensitize the LH receptors (if you even can is also open to debate) because when its time to return to homeostasis the small natural LH output that starts to occur in time will not be enough to trigger a response or have much effect.  This will prolong the period where your body is not producing any LH-test. When someone thought this theory up they went with 500 IU cause it seemed like a reasonable but not too large a dose.  They also took into consideration HCG's half life.

No real facts on this therapy, its kind of trial, error and the best logic you can come up with.

I agree.  I always lean toward starting out low and see if you can get away with less.  250ius pretty well for me for a while but I switched back to 500ius because I felt it kept me more regulated.

[Exal]

I have nothing to do with div candi...

There are loads of studies claiming that anything over 500iu will have serious consequences on your LH receptors in the testes...

I'm on 500iu ew, injection 250iu mon and thurs and my balls are just as full as when I'm off cycle...

p.s while I'm only on my first year of medicinal chemistry, this is the year where I have fysiology where 30% of the litterature is about the HPTA

[Stavios]

I have nothing to do with div candi...

There are loads of studies claiming that anything over 500iu will have serious consequences on your LH receptors in the testes...

I'm on 500iu ew, injection 250iu mon and thurs and my balls are just as full as when I'm off cycle...

p.s while I'm only on my first year of medicinal chemistry, this is the year where I have fysiology where 30% of the litterature is about the HPTA

very nice, good luck with school !

[4thAD]

I have nothing to do with div candi...

There are loads of studies claiming that anything over 500iu will have serious consequences on your LH receptors in the testes...

I'm on 500iu ew, injection 250iu mon and thurs and my balls are just as full as when I'm off cycle...

p.s while I'm only on my first year of medicinal chemistry, this is the year where I have fysiology where 30% of the litterature is about the HPTA

Post those studies that show 500iu of HCG will cause desensitization! I dont believe it for one second. First off I personally run 500 IU e3d, secondly I have posted the long term studies on this board, and most of all Dr. John Crisler recommends 1000iu of HCG a week, just under a different dosing protocol. 500iu was not just a made up number, it was researched and proven to be the ideal amount to keep the testes from atrophy.

[4thAD]

500iu e3d is the optimal dose, thats not risking anything at all. and there isnt any negatives to high estrogen other than water retentionand a slight shift in whereyour body stores fat (not how much, but just where)..other than that estrogen is a great thing to have.

Do some more research on this D! There are some potential problems in men having high estrogen.

[Emmortal]

Do some more research on this D! There are some potential problems in men having high estrogen.

Yea, something with prostate being enlarged and all that...not fun.

[Exal]

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/90/5/2595/F4

And yes you should ALWAYS keep your estrogen within the recommended range for males, because anything over that will fuck you up in the long run...

If you get regular bloodwork done and that way can keep check with your estrogen levels try to keep em right in the middle of the range for men...

low range fucks up your joins and sex drive, and has other negative effects...
High range equals, like you said, prostate problems, water retention problems, fat storage, gyno, BP problems all stuff you don't want, and for what? a few extra lbs on the bar that aint gonna help you shit in the long run

edit: if you feel 500iu is working good for you then keep doing it, I'm not gonna be the one to stop you, but keeping the dose as low as possible is the best... Ofcourse it all depends on the individual...

Ideally we should have a pill equal to the birth control pills that women have, just with HCG and HMG instead, would be the perfect oncycle/pct pill

[4thAD]

it can also cause diabetes, heart disease, and certain cancers.

[EKROCK]

been following this thread cos had the same no libido while on test  I was on 800  mgs of test  droped test to 500mgs
added 500iu of hcg 3 times a week and 100dhea ed and boy I`m waking up with wood everyday I feel 18 again
thanks guys  you know your shit  much respect

[tbombz]

been following this thread cos had the same no libido while on test  I was on 800  mgs of test  droped test to 500mgs
added 500iu of hcg 3 times a week and 100dhea ed and boy I`m waking up with wood everyday I feel 18 again
thanks guys  you know your shit  much respect

thats fuckin great man im glad to hear your good news ! 

[4thAD]

been following this thread cos had the same no libido while on test  I was on 800  mgs of test  droped test to 500mgs
added 500iu of hcg 3 times a week and 100dhea ed and boy I`m waking up with wood everyday I feel 18 again
thanks guys  you know your shit  much respect

Good news bro, glad the board could help.

[WillGrant]

You guys are so lucky..we cant even buy basic dhea here.. 
Cant even go onto bb.com and get it..

[tbombz]

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/90/5/2595/F4

And yes you should ALWAYS keep your estrogen within the recommended range for males, because anything over that will fuck you up in the long run...

low range fucks up your joins and sex drive, and has other negative effects...
High range equals, like you said, prostate problems, water retention problems, fat storage, gyno, BP problems all stuff you don't want, and for what? a few extra lbs on the bar that aint gonna help you shit in the long run

it doesnt cause fat storeage, and it does help you gain muscle quicker and retain muscle better while in a deficit.