Author Topic: News Keeps Getting Worse for Vitamins  (Read 4591 times)

nycbull

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News Keeps Getting Worse for Vitamins
« on: November 24, 2008, 12:54:53 PM »
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/11/20/news-keeps-getting-worse-for-vitamins/?em


NEW YORK TIMES

News Keeps Getting Worse for Vitamins
The best efforts of the scientific community to prove the health benefits of vitamins keep falling short.


Consumers don’t want to give up their vitamins. (Tony Cenicola/The New York Times)This week, researchers reported the disappointing results from a large clinical trial of almost 15,000 male doctors taking vitamins E and C for a decade. The study showed no meaningful effect on cancer rates.

Another recent study found no benefit of vitamins E and C for heart disease.

In October, a major trial studying whether vitamin E and selenium could lower a man’s risk for prostate cancer ended amidst worries that the treatments may do more harm than good.

And recently, doctors at Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center in New York warned that vitamin C seems to protect not just healthy cells but cancer cells, too.

Everyone needs vitamins, which are critical for the body. But for most people, the micronutrients we get from foods usually are adequate to prevent vitamin deficiency, which is rare in the United States. That said, some extra vitamins have proven benefits, such as vitamin B12 supplements for the elderly and folic acid for women of child-bearing age. And calcium and vitamin D in women over 65 appear to protect bone health.

But many people gobble down large doses of vitamins believing that they boost the body’s ability to mop up damaging free radicals that lead to cancer and heart disease. In addition to the more recent research, several reports in recent years have challenged the notion that megadoses of vitamins are good for you.

A Johns Hopkins School of Medicine review of 19 vitamin E clinical trials of more than 135,000 people showed high doses of vitamin E (greater than 400 IUs) increased a person’s risk for dying during the study period by 4 percent. Taking vitamin E with other vitamins and minerals resulted in a 6 percent higher risk of dying. Another study of daily vitamin E showed vitamin E takers had a 13 percent higher risk for heart failure.

The Journal of Clinical Oncology published a study of 540 patients with head and neck cancer who were being treated with radiation therapy. Vitamin E reduced side effects, but cancer recurrence rates among the vitamin users were higher, although the increase didn’t reach statistical significance.

A 1994 Finland study of smokers taking 20 milligrams a day of beta carotene showed an 18 percent higher incidence of lung cancer among beta carotene users. In 1996, a study called Caret looked at beta carotene and vitamin A use among smokers and workers exposed to asbestos, but the study was stopped when the vitamin users showed a 28 percent higher risk for lung cancer and a 26 percent higher risk of dying from heart disease.

A 2002 Harvard study of more than 72,000 nurses showed that those who consumed high levels of vitamin A from foods, multivitamins and supplements had a 48 percent higher risk for hip fractures than nurses who had the lowest intake of vitamin A.

The Cochrane Database of Systematic Reviews looked at vitamin C studies for treating colds. Among more than two dozen studies, there was no overall benefit for preventing colds, although the vitamin was linked with a 50 percent reduction in colds among people who engaged in extreme activities, such as marathon runners, skiers and soldiers, who were exposed to significant cold or physical stress. The data also suggested vitamin C use was linked with less severe and slightly shorter colds.

In October 2004, Copenhagen researchers reviewed seven randomized trials of beta carotene, selenium and vitamins A, C and E (alone or in combination) in colon, esophageal, gastric, pancreatic and liver cancer. The antioxidant users had a 6 percent higher death rate than placebo users.

Two studies presented to the American College of Cardiology in 2006 showed that vitamin B doesn’t prevent heart attacks, leading The New England Journal of Medicine to say that the consistency of the results “leads to the unequivocal conclusion” that the vitamins don’t help patients with established vascular disease.

The British Medical Journal looked at multivitamin use among elderly people for a year but found no difference in infection rates or visits to doctors.

Despite a lack of evidence that vitamins actually work, consumers appear largely unwilling to give them up. Many readers of the Well blog say the problem is not the vitamin but poorly designed studies that use the wrong type of vitamin, setting the vitamin up to fail. Industry groups such as the Council for Responsible Nutrition also say the research isn’t well designed to detect benefits in healthy vitamin users.

jtsunami

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Re: News Keeps Getting Worse for Vitamins
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2008, 12:58:24 PM »
good will stop people from wasting their money on supplements.

jt
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johnnynoname

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Re: News Keeps Getting Worse for Vitamins
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2008, 12:59:00 PM »
steroids> vitamins

timfogarty

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Re: News Keeps Getting Worse for Vitamins
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2008, 01:14:24 PM »
there is a big difference between taking a multi-vitamin and mineral supplement daily, and the mega-doses of individual vitamins that some people take.

everything in moderation

nycbull

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Re: News Keeps Getting Worse for Vitamins
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2008, 01:24:12 PM »
They failed to mention that synthetic vitamin E was used   ::)

i dont understand, why is that worse?

elite_lifter

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Re: News Keeps Getting Worse for Vitamins
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2008, 01:24:38 PM »
Studies, BAH, i'll stick with my vits!
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Royalty

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Re: News Keeps Getting Worse for Vitamins
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2008, 03:30:49 PM »
i dont understand, why is that worse?

Thats like a doctor setting up a study on steroids and their effectiveness on building muscle. The doctor then gives all subjects catabolic steroids (that tear down muscle) rather than anabolic steroids (that build muscle)....8 weeks later the doctor measures everyones strength and body mass compisition and compares it to their pre-drug numbers....then he acts suprised that every test subject is not bigger or stronger...he then deducing that steroids actually breakdown muscle


hey cholesterol is technically a steroid....so it must be the same as Anadrol 50 right??  Wrong!



PS- I Think body lacks receptors for synthetic vitamin e

Bluto

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Re: News Keeps Getting Worse for Vitamins
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2008, 03:47:25 PM »
wrong board guy
old news guy
bad research guy
Z

MuscleMcMannus

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Re: News Keeps Getting Worse for Vitamins
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2008, 05:35:24 PM »
Megadosing vitamins is detrimental to one's health.  People need to get the fuck back to nature.  You don't find those levels of vitamins and minerals in natural wholesome food.  People just need to fucking eat better.  Raw milk, eggs, meat, lots of fruits and veggies and maybe a few vitmains like niacin, flax seed, etc.  But only in moderation and on the conservative side in my opinion.  If people just ate better they wouldn't need vitamins. 

Necrosis

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Re: News Keeps Getting Worse for Vitamins
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2008, 05:37:41 PM »
Megadosing vitamins is detrimental to one's health.  People need to get the fuck back to nature.  You don't find those levels of vitamins and minerals in natural wholesome food.  People just need to fucking eat better.  Raw milk, eggs, meat, lots of fruits and veggies and maybe a few vitmains like niacin, flax seed, etc.  But only in moderation and on the conservative side in my opinion.  If people just ate better they wouldn't need vitamins. 

milk?

you know that in the majority of humans lactase levels decline after breastfeeding begins which indicates that milk is to be weened off.Many ethnicities lack enough lactase to take care of consumption, i doubt milk is a solid choice here.

nycbull

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Re: News Keeps Getting Worse for Vitamins
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2008, 07:46:07 PM »
wrong board ####
old news ####
bad research ####


how is this old news?, and its the NY Times, most reliable source.

The True Adonis

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Re: News Keeps Getting Worse for Vitamins
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2008, 08:58:26 PM »
Vitamin Supplements will fall by the wayside eventually.  Especially if a trend in certain Cancers can be observed.

Rami

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Re: News Keeps Getting Worse for Vitamins
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2008, 09:08:59 PM »
Vitamin Supplements will fall by the wayside eventually.  Especially if a trend in certain Cancers can be observed.

How do you mean?

elite_lifter

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Re: News Keeps Getting Worse for Vitamins
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2008, 09:12:53 PM »
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/11/20/news-keeps-getting-worse-for-vitamins/?em


NEW YORK TIMES

News Keeps Getting Worse for Vitamins
The best efforts of the scientific community to prove the health benefits of vitamins keep falling short.


Consumers don’t want to give up their vitamins. (Tony Cenicola/The New York Times)This week, researchers reported the disappointing results from a large clinical trial of almost 15,000 male doctors taking vitamins E and C for a decade. The study showed no meaningful effect on cancer rates.

Another recent study found no benefit of vitamins E and C for heart disease.

In October, a major trial studying whether vitamin E and selenium could lower a man’s risk for prostate cancer ended amidst worries that the treatments may do more harm than good.

And recently, doctors at Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center in New York warned that vitamin C seems to protect not just healthy cells but cancer cells, too.

Everyone needs vitamins, which are critical for the body. But for most people, the micronutrients we get from foods usually are adequate to prevent vitamin deficiency, which is rare in the United States. That said, some extra vitamins have proven benefits, such as vitamin B12 supplements for the elderly and folic acid for women of child-bearing age. And calcium and vitamin D in women over 65 appear to protect bone health.

But many people gobble down large doses of vitamins believing that they boost the body’s ability to mop up damaging free radicals that lead to cancer and heart disease. In addition to the more recent research, several reports in recent years have challenged the notion that megadoses of vitamins are good for you.

A Johns Hopkins School of Medicine review of 19 vitamin E clinical trials of more than 135,000 people showed high doses of vitamin E (greater than 400 IUs) increased a person’s risk for dying during the study period by 4 percent. Taking vitamin E with other vitamins and minerals resulted in a 6 percent higher risk of dying. Another study of daily vitamin E showed vitamin E takers had a 13 percent higher risk for heart failure.

The Journal of Clinical Oncology published a study of 540 patients with head and neck cancer who were being treated with radiation therapy. Vitamin E reduced side effects, but cancer recurrence rates among the vitamin users were higher, although the increase didn’t reach statistical significance.

A 1994 Finland study of smokers taking 20 milligrams a day of beta carotene showed an 18 percent higher incidence of lung cancer among beta carotene users. In 1996, a study called Caret looked at beta carotene and vitamin A use among smokers and workers exposed to asbestos, but the study was stopped when the vitamin users showed a 28 percent higher risk for lung cancer and a 26 percent higher risk of dying from heart disease.

A 2002 Harvard study of more than 72,000 nurses showed that those who consumed high levels of vitamin A from foods, multivitamins and supplements had a 48 percent higher risk for hip fractures than nurses who had the lowest intake of vitamin A.

The Cochrane Database of Systematic Reviews looked at vitamin C studies for treating colds. Among more than two dozen studies, there was no overall benefit for preventing colds, although the vitamin was linked with a 50 percent reduction in colds among people who engaged in extreme activities, such as marathon runners, skiers and soldiers, who were exposed to significant cold or physical stress. The data also suggested vitamin C use was linked with less severe and slightly shorter colds.

In October 2004, Copenhagen researchers reviewed seven randomized trials of beta carotene, selenium and vitamins A, C and E (alone or in combination) in colon, esophageal, gastric, pancreatic and liver cancer. The antioxidant users had a 6 percent higher death rate than placebo users.

Two studies presented to the American College of Cardiology in 2006 showed that vitamin B doesn’t prevent heart attacks, leading The New England Journal of Medicine to say that the consistency of the results “leads to the unequivocal conclusion” that the vitamins don’t help patients with established vascular disease.

The British Medical Journal looked at multivitamin use among elderly people for a year but found no difference in infection rates or visits to doctors.

Despite a lack of evidence that vitamins actually work, consumers appear largely unwilling to give them up. Many readers of the Well blog say the problem is not the vitamin but poorly designed studies that use the wrong type of vitamin, setting the vitamin up to fail. Industry groups such as the Council for Responsible Nutrition also say the research isn’t well designed to detect benefits in healthy vitamin users.

It's all about balance. I did not hear of anyones eating habits or exercise habits in these studies. Vitamins are not a magic bullet but in combination with a healthy lifestyle they are beneficial. High does of anything will kill you, and it seems these studies like to mega dose people. All bullshit propaganda to further the profits of the pharmaceutical companies.BAHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
I am a big baby

Rami

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Re: News Keeps Getting Worse for Vitamins
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2008, 09:19:23 PM »
Damn I usually take a vitamin C every day but I'm going to stop now. Thank's for letting us know!

stuntmovie

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Re: News Keeps Getting Worse for Vitamins
« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2008, 09:24:48 PM »
I seem to recall this same "battle" being fought in the early 70's.

Eisenherz

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Re: News Keeps Getting Worse for Vitamins
« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2008, 09:37:21 PM »
You fools they dont want you to take your vitamins so you get sick more often and buy medicines from the pharmaceutical companies..
These scientists are usualy funded by them, and if they produce research that shows differently to what their sponsors want, they stop the funding..
Dont buy into the anti vitamin bs, before you know it you will need a prescription to buy them, they already tried doing this in Australia..
Dont take everything authorative figures say as gosple.

MuscleMcMannus

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Re: News Keeps Getting Worse for Vitamins
« Reply #17 on: November 25, 2008, 12:11:12 AM »
milk?

you know that in the majority of humans lactase levels decline after breastfeeding begins which indicates that milk is to be weened off.Many ethnicities lack enough lactase to take care of consumption, i doubt milk is a solid choice here.

No offense but you have no clue what you're talking about.  Raw milk has naturally occurring lactase.  Those who are lactose intolerant cannot handle pasteurized dairy products but have no problems digesting raw dairy products, as nature intended.  I suggest you read up on Weston A. Price and his study of indigenous people all over the world during the 1930's.  One tribe he studied in particular were the Masai in Africa.  They lived off blood and milk basically.  Suffered none of the chronic diseases that affect westerners such as arthritis, heart disease, cancer etc.  Many people have allergies to shellfish, peanuts, eggs etc.  Doesn't mean they are bad foods that others shouldn't embrace.  I'd say raw milk and raw eggs are two of the most healthiest foods humans can consume.  You can live off of raw milk and eggs.  Try living off vegetables and see how long you live. 

nycbull

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Re: News Keeps Getting Worse for Vitamins
« Reply #18 on: November 25, 2008, 12:19:28 AM »
You fools they dont want you to take your vitamins so you get sick more often and buy medicines from the pharmaceutical companies..
These scientists are usualy funded by them, and if they produce research that shows differently to what their sponsors want, they stop the funding..
Dont buy into the anti vitamin bs, before you know it you will need a prescription to buy them, they already tried doing this in Australia..
Dont take everything authorative figures say as gosple.

good thesis there but now you have to prove it  :D

Fatpanda

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Re: News Keeps Getting Worse for Vitamins
« Reply #19 on: November 25, 2008, 05:05:04 AM »
vit c cures heart disease - theres a patent on its use for this treatment, so no company will fund research to prove it.

also vitamins can not be patented, so there is no profit in corporations finding out if a vitamin cures a disease, as they cannot get exclusive rights to sell it.

vitamin b17 cures cancer.

read upon this and do not be fooled by big pharma.
175lbs by 31st July

MuscleMcMannus

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Re: News Keeps Getting Worse for Vitamins
« Reply #20 on: November 25, 2008, 06:49:37 AM »
vit c cures heart disease - theres a patent on its use for this treatment, so no company will fund research to prove it.

also vitamins can not be patented, so there is no profit in corporations finding out if a vitamin cures a disease, as they cannot get exclusive rights to sell it.

vitamin b17 cures cancer.

read upon this and do not be fooled by big pharma.

The science surrounding B17 is very shoddy.  Apricot kernels etc.  There is a book on this subject called a World Without Cancer or something like that.  I have an open mind but what little research I've done on B17 seems like quakery. 

affeman

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Re: News Keeps Getting Worse for Vitamins
« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2008, 06:58:15 AM »
A Johns Hopkins School of Medicine review of 19 vitamin E clinical trials of more than 135,000 people showed high doses of vitamin E (greater than 400 IUs) increased a person’s risk for dying during the study period by 4 percent. Taking vitamin E with other vitamins and minerals resulted in a 6 percent higher risk of dying.

I love stuff like that. How do you measure a person's risk for dying?? (and by how many percent it's increased lol ???) Did they all die during the study?

Fatpanda

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Re: News Keeps Getting Worse for Vitamins
« Reply #22 on: November 25, 2008, 07:16:47 AM »
The science surrounding B17 is very shoddy.  Apricot kernels etc.  There is a book on this subject called a World Without Cancer or something like that.  I have an open mind but what little research I've done on B17 seems like quakery. 
you have to look beyond the lies.

how many billions would be lost if a cure for cancer was found? and they could not patent it because the cure was a simple vitamin  ;)

there is too much cash at stake to allow a cure to be found.
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Bluto

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Re: News Keeps Getting Worse for Vitamins
« Reply #23 on: November 25, 2008, 07:35:22 AM »
mostly old people die of cancer

the key here is to never get old, then you avoid cancer

Z

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Re: News Keeps Getting Worse for Vitamins
« Reply #24 on: November 25, 2008, 08:25:37 AM »
No offense but you have no clue what you're talking about.  Raw milk has naturally occurring lactase.  Those who are lactose intolerant cannot handle pasteurized dairy products but have no problems digesting raw dairy products, as nature intended.  I suggest you read up on Weston A. Price and his study of indigenous people all over the world during the 1930's.  One tribe he studied in particular were the Masai in Africa.  They lived off blood and milk basically.  Suffered none of the chronic diseases that affect westerners such as arthritis, heart disease, cancer etc.  Many people have allergies to shellfish, peanuts, eggs etc.  Doesn't mean they are bad foods that others shouldn't embrace.  I'd say raw milk and raw eggs are two of the most healthiest foods humans can consume.  You can live off of raw milk and eggs.  Try living off vegetables and see how long you live. 

no offense taken, if im wrong i will admit no big deal. Post the study you are referring to if you would. I have some other arguments but im busy right now, ill get back to you.