Author Topic: Oh Lord NO!!!! Please say it isn't so?  (Read 1094 times)

24KT

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Oh Lord NO!!!! Please say it isn't so?
« on: November 27, 2008, 06:04:09 PM »
Back To The Polls?
Ottawa's Controversial Cost Cutting Could Lead To A New Election

Thursday November 27, 2008
CityNews.ca Staff



When the going gets tough, the tough stop spending.

That seems to be the mantra in Ottawa, as Finance Minister Jim Flaherty delivered his long awaited economic statement Thursday afternoon. It shows the Conservatives expect Canada to go into a recession until at least April 2009, with a jobless rate near 7 per cent and a razor thin surplus.

Flaherty admits the ideas the Tories had when they went into last month's election changed quickly as the credit crunch was felt all over the world. And that means that a lot of what was on the federal menu is being sent back to the fiscal kitchen for a much lighter meal.

The upshot: the government can't afford the kind of stimulus package that might be needed to give the economy a shot in the arm. That injection will be delayed until at least next year with the hopes the patient doesn't get any sicker before then.

Times will be tough, but Flaherty believes Canada can weather the fiscal storm, provided we prepare for a "global credit crunch we did not spark."

But to do it, he's stepping on a lot of toes. And it means we could be heading back to the polls again.

Perhaps the most controversial move involves this country's powerful unions. Noting that huge salary hike expectations aren't reasonable right now, public sector pay increases will be scaled back to 1.5 per cent.

And perhaps more importantly, the unions' right to strike will be "curtailed" for the next two years.

The Public Service Alliance of Canada has already agreed that desperate times require desperate measures and has said its members are willing to scale back their demands.

But how they and other collectives across the country will feel about having the right to walk off the job scaled back is another matter that doesn't just affect salary.

In an announcement that was leaked last month, Flaherty confirmed that the feds will also sell off some government and Crown corporations, netting the treasury $2.3 billion. But the names of those assets weren't revealed.

Government programs will be cut wherever possible, with an eye to saving $2 billion.

Equalization payments will be scaled back, something that could hurt the new have-not Ontario.

And in a move that has the opposition in an uproar, the Tories also plan to table legislation that will eliminate taxpayer-financed subsidies of political parties.

Under the current rules, there's a $30 million fund that's distributed to all the parties, depending on how many seats they capture in an election.

With the Liberals broke and the NDP with fewer MPs, eliminating that subsidy could seriously hurt the opposition. They claim they'll do everything to defeat what Liberal leadership candidate Bob Rae has already called "an attack on democracy."

All the opposition parties immediately weighed in after Flaherty's speech and their tough talk is worrisome for the election-weary. Each vows not to support the update and if they keep their word, Canada would be plunged into yet another federal vote.

The Tories appear ready to play chicken with their opponents, with the Liberals boasting a lame duck leader who won't be replaced until May of next year.

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Fiscal Statement Highlights:

  • No immediate government stimulus for troubled economy; instead, measures to be announced early next year.
  • Razor-thin surplus predicted for 2009-2010, though government stimulus measures next year likely to tip finances into deficit.
  • Economy projected in recession now until April 1, 2009.
  • Sale of government property and Crown corporations expected to yield $2.3 billion next year, helping to stave off deficit; no details provided.
  • Reductions in overall government programs next year to save $2 billion; no details provided.
  • Jobless rate to peak at 6.9 per cent for 2009.
  • Major reforms planned to scale back equalization program; no details provided.
  • Limiting public-sector salary increases to 1.5 per cent to save $600 million next year; right-to-strike to be curtailed.
  • Twenty-five per cent reduction in amount required to be withdrawn from a registered retirement income funds (RRIFs) for 2008.
  • Modest relief for federally regulated pension plans, allowing them to make solvency payments over 10 years instead of five.
  • "Costly and litigious" regime of pay equity to be reformed.
  • Proposed elimination of taxpayer-financed subsidies to political parties next year.

===========================

I swear another election is going to send me right over the edge!  :o

Harper is simply determined to get his majority government at any cost, ...but there's absolutely no way the opposition will agree to that final item in the list above. Elimination of tax-payer-financed subsidies to political parties with drive opposition parties through the roof. Even when both the conservatives and the NDP lost official party status, ...The liberals were gracious enough to allow their members to sit in Parliament, as well as receive funding, ...and they already had a rock solid majority sweeping the map from coast to coast. If political parties now have to go begging for handouts and sucking up to big money donors, you'll see all the ideology leave the parties and it will simply be one huge orgy catering to special interest big money donors. It will make some of these pandering whores even worse than they already are.

And what f-ing credit crunch is he talking about anyway?  >:( I just got sent another credit card offer in the mail.

I don't know what that reporter was talking about when he wrote "The Public Service Alliance of Canada has already agreed that desperate times require desperate measures and has said its members are willing to scale back their demands." PSAC members already gave an 88% strike mandate to their union last month, and have already been out on strike with Canada Post who've been making my life a living hell for the past 2 weeks!  >:(

I really don't want to have go through another election.  :'(
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Al Doggity

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Re: Oh Lord NO!!!! Please say it isn't so?
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2008, 06:35:29 PM »
Canada has its own political system? That's so cute. ;D

Tapper

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Re: Oh Lord NO!!!! Please say it isn't so?
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2008, 07:45:58 PM »
Canada has its own political system? That's so cute. ;D

Kind of.  Thats what happens when you dont actually get to vote for your PM.

Al Doggity

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Re: Oh Lord NO!!!! Please say it isn't so?
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2008, 08:19:00 PM »
Technically, we don't really get to vote for our president.

24KT

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Re: Oh Lord NO!!!! Please say it isn't so?
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2008, 10:27:09 PM »
Canada has its own political system? That's so cute. ;D

Yah! And we got our own army too mister... so you better watch your ass!  ;D

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24KT

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Re: Oh Lord NO!!!! Please say it isn't so?
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2008, 10:32:52 PM »
Technically, we don't really get to vote for our president.

Shhh... he still hasn't realized that under Canada's parliamentary system, Canadians have more say in who their head of state is, and have far more representation than the US Electoral college provides.  ;)
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Re: Oh Lord NO!!!! Please say it isn't so?
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2008, 04:13:04 PM »
Harper Delays Confidence Vote By A Week As He Fights To Save Tory Minority
Friday November 28, 2008
CityNews.ca Staff



No matter which political party you support, you have to admit one thing: this has been one of the most extraordinary 24-hour periods in the history of Canadian politics.

It began Thursday with an economic statement that cut taxpayer funding for all political parties in Canada. It continued Friday, with outrage from the opposition, which stood to lose millions in cash from the proposal.

It led to the revelation that those against Stephen Harper's government were planning to form an unprecedented coalition to topple him.

And it ended with a defiant Harper confirming the Tories intend to put off their apparent fate for another week. The vote will now be held on December 8th.

The Prime Minister has decided to delay the confidence motion he was to face in the House of Commons Monday night until next week, buying his government a little more time to maneuver.

He was exceedingly blunt in characterizing both the Liberals, its leader Stephane Dion, and the NDP, as irresponsible in their actions, accusing the Grits of trying to stage a political coup.

 "They want to take power, not earn it," Harper charges. "They want to install a government, led by a party that received its lowest vote share since Confederation. They want to install a prime minister - Prime Minister Dion - who was rejected by the voters just six weeks ago. They want to install a coalition that they explicitly promised not to support.

"The Liberals campaigned against a coalition with the NDP precisely because they said the NDP's policies were bad for the economy. And now they plan to enter into the very same coalition under the guise of strengthening the economy. 

"Stephane Dion and the NDP plan to make this happen by accepting the support of a party that wants to destroy the country. The opposition has every right to defeat the government. But Stephane Dion does not have the right to take power without an election."

It's the latest move in a chess game that has stunned political observers across the country.

And it all happened in a head spinning hurry.

It centres on Finance Minister Jim Flaherty's plan to cut the $2 subsidy all parties get for every vote they receive. That would leave the cash strapped Liberals and their counterparts, the NDP and the Bloc, without the funding they need to challenge the well-off Tories in future elections, an act they call an attack on democracy.

But Flaherty stood firm, insisting it was a matter of confidence and if those opposed rejected it, it would bring down the government and trigger an election just over a month after the country last voted.

Immediately after the speech, the parties got together and began talking about wresting power away from the Conservatives, a plot that would see an unprecedented coalition that has only happened once before in Canadian history.
 
By Friday, something was clearly in the wind and that was apparently enough for the Tories to pull back and proclaim that the controversial idea - while still on the table - wouldn't be part of the motion.

Sensing blood, the so-called 'coalition' prepared to move in for the kill, insisting it wasn't just the subsidy that was the problem, it was a lack of a stimulus package in melting economy that made them sure they should bring down the Conservatives. 

Just after noon, the Liberals announced they would be introducing a non-confidence motion on Monday that would force the Tories out.

The motion, which has the support of the other parties, reads:

"In light of the government's failure to recognize the seriousness of Canada's economic situation and its failure in particular to present any credible plan to stimulate the Canadian economy and to help workers and businesses in hard-pressed sectors such as manufacturing, the automotive industry and forestry, this House has lost confidence in this government and is of the opinion that a viable alternative government can be formed within the present House of Commons."

The other parties - the Grits, the NDP and the Bloc, planned to then go to the Governor-General and ask her to dissolve Parliament and appoint them as a new caretaker government.

"The NDP is going to stand four-square against this government's right-wing agenda, they have a minority situation, they don't respect Canadian voters," said NDP MP Thomas Mulcair.

"If this government believed in fiscal stimulus they would've acted yesterday," said Liberal representative John McCallum.

But talk about strange bedfellows. Sources indicate the de facto Prime Minister in this new world order would be none other than lame duck leader Dion, whose Liberals went down to ignominious defeat last month and who will be replaced next May.

Despite these bizarre machinations and the decision to delay the vote, Flaherty, who was in Toronto for a speech Friday, remains defiant.

"We were just elected by the people of Canada with an increased number of seats, the people of Canada clearly viewed our party as the best party to steer our country through what is a serious economic downturn, and we put forward yesterday, after deliberation, our plan for the country.

"So we expect it to have the support of Parliament given the will as expressed of the Canadian people."

Harper originally called the election on the pretext that Parliament was dysfunctional and the government couldn't get its agenda passed. But if the Tories thought things were bad before, just wait. This latest roller coaster ride is just beginning, but it could also mark the end of many Canadians' patience just six weeks removed from the last long and expensive nationwide vote.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Text of Harper's Announcement

"Less than two months ago, the people of Canada gave our party a strengthened mandate to lead Canada during the most serious global economic crisis in generations. Since that time, we've acted, acted on our commitment to keep cutting job-killing taxes - business taxes.

"Acted to expedite the constructions of roads, bridges and other infrastructure. Acted to strengthen Canada's already strong financial system by injecting tens of billions of dollars of liquidity into Canada's credit markets.

"Acted to ensure a long-term structural balance in the federal budget. And acted to demonstrate leadership by proposing to reduce taxpayer subsidies for political parties.

"Our actions have been proactive. They have been responsible. And they have been in keeping with our commitments to Canadians. More so, these actions represent our first steps.

"In the next couple of months, the government will present a budget that outlines our next move forward. A plan that will include expected stimulus measures worked out in consultation with Canada's provinces and in concert with the other members of the G20.

"While we have been working on the economy, the opposition has been working on a back room deal to overturn the results of the last election without seeking the consent of voters. They want to take power, not earn it.

"They want to install a government, led by a party that received its lowest vote share since Confederation. They want to install a prime minister - Prime Minister Dion - who was rejected by the voters just six weeks ago.

"They want to install a coalition that they explicitly promised not to support. The Liberals campaigned against a coalition with the NDP precisely because they said the NDP's  policies were bad for the economy. And now they plan to enter into the very same coalition under the guise of strengthening the economy.

"Stephane Dion and the NDP plan to make this happen by accepting the support of a party that wants to destroy the country. The opposition has every right to defeat the government. But Stephane Dion does not have the right to take power without an election.

"Canada's government should be decided by Canadians, not back-room deals. It should be your choice, not theirs. And it's now up to all of us to stand up for the right of Canadians to choose their own government.

"On December the 8th, the House of Commons will have an opportunity to vote on the opposition's attempt to overturn the results of the last election. Until then, we will continue governing.

"In the meantime, Canadians can make their views known on this issue to all of their Members of Parliament. Thank you very much and I hope you will all have a good weekend."

=============================================

Oh man, ...if this coalition went down... it would be so kewl!  ;D

It would be the exact same thing Bob Rae of the NDP did yrs ago here in Ontario, that defeated the provincial conservative government at the time, and put David Petersen of the Liberal party in power.

I'm getting goosebumps just thinking about it... and it can happen without another election!  ;D

We'll have a Liberal Prime Minister, a Liberal Premiere, AND the Dems in the Oval Office, the Senate and in Congress.

It don't get any better than this.  :P

...well, actually it could better. We could see impeachments, and trials for treason and war crimes,
... but hey, ...I'd be happy with this for the time being.

Ever since getting into office, he's pouted and bullied his way through telling opposition members if you don't like this, if you don't support or go along with that, I'm calling an election. We don't want 3 elections a year, ...we want you to get in there and run the f-ing government, not play chicken and waste millions of tax payers money every few months on a new election.

Of course I blame this all on that power-hungry SOB Paul Martin who forced Chrétien out.
If not for that, ...we'd probably still have a majority Liberal government still in place today.

I guess when Harper saw how well it worked for Martin, he gave it a try himself.
His first attempt at a non-confidence vote to trigger an election failed.
His second attempt at dissolving parliament work, ...he got elected.
He kept threatening to dissolve parliament as a bully tactic, ...and this last time he did it, despite no one wanting another election, he got re-elected with even more seats.

So now Harper wants to try another kick at the can while opposition members are in disarray? ???

I hope Canadians from coast to coast write their opposition MPs and say
"Form a Coalition! We don't want another election, ...but take over the reigns of government."

That'll teach that fvcker to play chicken!   >:( 

If you keep playing Russian Roulette long enough, ...eventually your number comes up!

There has only ever been one official federal coalition government in Canada since Confederation and it was formed under extraordinary circumstances as a result of World War I.

Click here for the details of when and how it happened.



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Tapper

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Re: Oh Lord NO!!!! Please say it isn't so?
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2008, 08:57:25 PM »
Shhh... he still hasn't realized that under Canada's parliamentary system, Canadians have more say in who their head of state is, and have far more representation than the US Electoral college provides.  ;)

And she hasnt realized she's full of shit.


Shhhh.........

24KT

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Re: Oh Lord NO!!!! Please say it isn't so?
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2008, 05:57:43 PM »
Coalition Government Proposed As Harper Delays Confidence Vote
Saturday November 29, 2008
CityNews.ca Staff



It's like déjà vu all over again, quipped Yogi Berra in one of his infamous malapropisms.

But the joke isn't very funny for Canadians who just spend $300 million on an election only to see another non-confidence vote looming on the horizon.

We went to the polls just six weeks ago, on October 14, and put the same minority Conservative government back in power.

Everything was going well until Thursday, when Stephen Harper and his team released an economic statement that cut funding for all political parties.

Each vote is worth $2 to the party, but Financial Minister Jim Flaherty proposed ending the subsidy. That would put his party at a clear advantage and the opposition cried foul.

They didn't just complain - in fact, the Liberals, New Democratic Party and the Bloc are now talking about forming a coalition government and toppling the Tory minority.

Combined, those parties took more votes than the Conservatives. While Harper said the plan is a backroom deal, there does appear some citizens who are in support, including the aptly named group Canadians For A Progressive Coalition. Check out their website here

Harper said it was nothing more than a coup attempt.

But he still delayed the vote on the financial proposal for another week, giving senior Conservatives time to reach out to members of the opposition and forge a compromise.

Friday, the so-called coalition said it wasn't just about the money they would get - it was about the money ordinary Canadians (also known as voters) would receive in a stimulus package.

The proposal also takes away the right to strike from federal public-sector unions for the next three years.

The Liberals announced they would be introducing a non-confidence motion Monday that would force the Tories out, but that's now been moved until December 8. Harper postponed the planned Opposition Day.

Governor General Michaelle Jean is making contingency plans for a speedy return to Ottawa from a European tour if the Harper government falls.
 
The motion, which has the support of the other parties, reads:

"In light of the government's failure to recognize the seriousness of Canada's economic situation and its failure in particular to present any credible plan to stimulate the Canadian economy and to help workers and businesses in hard-pressed sectors such as manufacturing, the automotive industry and forestry, this House has lost confidence in this government and is of the opinion that a viable alternative government can be formed within the present House of Commons."

The other parties - the Grits, the NDP and the Bloc, planned to then go to the Governor-General and ask her to dissolve Parliament and appoint them as a new caretaker government.


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bigdumbbell

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Re: Oh Lord NO!!!! Please say it isn't so?
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2008, 06:54:26 PM »
this should be interesting

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Re: Oh Lord NO!!!! Please say it isn't so?
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2008, 06:56:28 PM »
this should be interesting

LOL.

I find canadian politics to be the most boring thing ever.

bigdumbbell

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Re: Oh Lord NO!!!! Please say it isn't so?
« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2008, 07:11:13 PM »
LOL.

I find canadian politics to be the most boring thing ever.
thanks for sharing

Brixtonbulldog

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Re: Oh Lord NO!!!! Please say it isn't so?
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2008, 07:14:15 PM »
Unions destroying your economy?!?!?  NO WAY!!!!! ;D

24KT

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Re: Oh Lord NO!!!! Please say it isn't so?
« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2008, 10:52:10 PM »
Unions destroying your economy?!?!?  NO WAY!!!!! ;D

The Unions aren't destroying our economy, but Harper used the global fiscal crisis as an excuse to attack them, as well as alot of other things, in an attempt to give him and his party a political advantage. The opposition said not good enough.

Look at it this way, ...when McCain had to choose a running mate, he could have chosen one that represented a decision to put America First. Instead he chose one designed to put himself first. The voters saw through it and said no way. Up here, it's the same thing, the opposition said "Hell No! Harper has to Go!"
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