hgh

[muscle19]

hey fellas, plan on adding hgh into my routin with aas and slin. now, i am in bulking phase for a contest next year and i hear diff. opinions on how to take gh and when. what would you guys suggest? i will be running 4 ius gh and i have ran slin at 10ius tops p.w.

[muscle19]

ok , to rephrase this. I have ran by before alone in the morning. I have read other posts about take it postworkouy with slin or would it be best to take it in the morning with my slin.

[stevekg]

hgh alone in the morning is ok to take..even for better life stile

[dustin]

You could take it in the morning upon waking, which I think gives you the best bang for your buck.. or you could take it a couple hours pre workout that way it peaks around PWO. Are you planning on taking any slin with it?

[muscle19]

i am planning slin with it

[dr_para24]

it makes me sleepy in the afternoon when i used in the moring for the G! i used it before i go to bed.

[Arnold jr]

I vote for morning time on an empty stomach.

[dustin]

I vote for morning time on an empty stomach.

Same, man. Best bang for your buck. Just seems to work into my schedule the best as well. I just pinned my GH. Time for cardio.

[Emmortal]

hey fellas, plan on adding hgh into my routin with aas and slin. now, i am in bulking phase for a contest next year and i hear diff. opinions on how to take gh and when. what would you guys suggest? i will be running 4 ius gh and i have ran slin at 10ius tops p.w.

How old are you?

[muscle19]

23, competition plans for sure, i have used slin but i have never had the hypo feelng, i am very cautious. i have only used slin by itself andhad some good gains but i do want to take it to the next level.

[Emmortal]

23, competition plans for sure, i have used slin but i have never had the hypo feelng, i am very cautious. i have only used slin by itself andhad some good gains but i do want to take it to the next level.

How much GH are you planning to run (ius)?  At your age in the morning would be best or immediately PWO followed by your slin 30 minutes later.  There's a ton of guys who've ran this protocol doing it 3x a week.  GH is best used (for putting on mass) EOD and not ED.  If you're using it for cosmetic purposes or well being then ED is fine.

[tbombz]

GH is best used (for putting on mass) EOD and not ED. 

[Emmortal]

Comparisons are tough. For instance over at *** *** compared 1mg to maybe 6iu of GH and felt that 2mg would be a bodybuilding dose. That comports with my view.

However *** was using glucophage with his CJC and it harmed his gains. If you don't use slin then you really need to not suppress your own insulin w/ GH because insulin does several synergistic things. For instance once GH binds to a receptor it starts several intracellular signaling processes. One is Stat5 which is the most important for growth and the one that results in IGF-1 synthesis in the liver. This Stat5 pathway will eventually desensitize and it NEEDS the absence of GH to resensitize. That is why pulsation is important for growth because the troughs (or absence of insulin) resensitizes this pathway.

This is also probably why *** and others discovered long ago that synthetic GH works best if taken every other day instead of every day. Of course CJC/GHRP-6 are pulsatile by nature.

Another intracellular pathway that is set off when GH binds to a receptor is ERK. This is more of a modulating pathway. While the Stat5 pathway in liver cells modulates cellular metabolism & production of IGF-1, ERK is active at cellular proliferation. So it is important as well. Now this pathway, unlike Stat5 does not reset when GH is absent (i.e. the troughs). It also requires the presence of insulin during trough periods to regain its sensitivity.

All of this to say that what someone is also using will effect growth optimization.

After spending some time researching what happens intracellular and seeing how the IGF-1 receptor & GH-receptor often form a complex that is synergistic I do feel that adding some IGF-1 MAY actually add to growth. I started out as a skeptic because I feared it would interfere w/ GH production but I am more open to it now.

As far as MGF, is concerned there would be no interference w/ GH production so it can not do harm. I really believe it would be a good addition. The peg version when pinned has a better chance of staying in a wider area of the muscle and mimicking the autocrine/paracrine nature of muscle produced MGF.

The following compounds work together in the body to encourage growth: testosterone, insulin, growth hormone, a minimal level of circulating IGF-1 and a maximal level of muscle IGF-1 & MGF as well as some basic level of cortisol together with T3 which are necessary to synthesize GH. Prolactin also has a minor role to play as well as some small level of estrogen (recently it was discovered that it is low but rising levels of estrogen that causes male pubertal growth spurts not testosterone).

[tbombz]

thats awesome info, didnt know that stuff, thanks

[dustin]

Em, do you have any other tidbits like that stashed away? I'm interested to hear more!!

[Van_Bilderass]

That GH works best EOD is a theory so far IMO, not a fact. All these pathways and mechanisms are so complex that it's impossible to predict just based on one pathway etc. Plus bodybuilders are interested in fat loss and muscle gain - which is why I thought it silly when guys used the growth study on children (effects on height) to "prove" GH was better used EOD.

BTW, anyone have any direct knowledge of IV use of growth? I know for a fact it's done by some pros. What kind of effects are seen?

[Emmortal]

That GH works best EOD is a theory so far IMO, not a fact. All these pathways and mechanisms are so complex that it's impossible to predict just based on one pathway etc. Plus bodybuilders are interested in fat loss and muscle gain - which is why I thought it silly when guys used the growth study on children (effects on height) to "prove" GH was better used EOD.

BTW, anyone have any direct knowledge of IV use of growth? I know for a fact it's done by some pros. What kind of effects are seen?

Indeed there are, but this is pretty consistent amongst 5-6 guys that I talk to regularly who've been running GH each for over 10 years.  They've tried it just about every which way you can possibly think and the EOD dosing is what they all seem to agree on.  Timing and amount are the two where you get some wildly disproportionate answers about.  The guy who wrote that is in his 40's and has been running GH since the 90's.  He's now switched to using GHRP-6+CJC-1295 over synthetic GH.

I'll ask around about using it IV, maybe AJ can ask some of the guys he knows as well.

[Emmortal]

BTW, anyone have any direct knowledge of IV use of growth? I know for a fact it's done by some pros. What kind of effects are seen?

You've probably seen this Van but something interesting:

1: J Surg Res. 1991 Dec;51(6):472-6
Insulin-like growth factor-I response is comparable following intravenous and subcutaneous administration of growth hormone.
* Kimbrough TD,
* Shernan S,
* Ziegler TR,
* Scheltinga M,
* Wilmore DW.

Department of Surgery, Brigham and Women's Hospital, Harvard Medical School, Boston, Massachusetts 02115

Subcutaneous (sq) administration of recombinant human growth hormone (r-hgh) has an anabolic effect and increases systemic insulin-like growth factor (IGF-I) in surgical patients. IGF-I is a mediator of growth hormone (gh) anabolic effects. To determine the effect of intravenous (iv) administration of r-hgh on systemic IGF-I, 11 patients were given 14 1-week courses of daily 8-hr infusions of r-hgh (10 mg in 500 ml D5W). Serum gh and IGF-I levels were measured. To compare routes of administration, iv r-hgh patients were matched to comparable sq r-hgh patients and IGF-I responses were examined.
Illness severity effect on IGF-I response to r-hgh was assessed by dividing 16 burn patients who received either iv or sq r-hgh into two groups on the basis of severity scores. Analysis of the data showed that IGF-I levels increased significantly after iv r-hgh, IGF-I response to iv r-hgh (1.14 +/- 0.18 U/ml to 4.12 +/- 0.65 U/ml) was not different from IGF-I response to sq r-hgh (1.04 +/- 0.36 U/ml to 4.96 +/- 1.09 U/ml). Increasing illness severity attenuated the IGF-I response in the more severely injured group (0.91 +/- 17 U/ml to 2.40 +/- 0.38 U/ml) relative to the less severely injured group (1.37 +/- 0.22 U/ml to 5.53 +/- 0.78 U/ml) despite a significant increase in IGF-I after gh in both groups. In summary, IGF-I increased significantly after iv r-hgh and the increases were similar to those seen after sq r-hgh in comparable patients.

[Emmortal]

BTW, anyone have any direct knowledge of IV use of growth? I know for a fact it's done by some pros. What kind of effects are seen?

Someone asked the same thing on another board and a guy who's very knowledgeable in peptides responded with:

After reading over and over on studies showing the differences in the method of delivery of GH, it simply boils down to bioavailability. And intravenous injections of GH deliver almost 100% bioavailability. I can't find numbers on IM, but with sub-q, 20%-25% is lost.
Quiet a few people claim that the slower the release, the better the hormonal cascade, but that is far from the truth.

[tbombz]

And intravenous injections of GH deliver almost 100% bioavailability. I can't find numbers on IM, but with sub-q, 20%-25% is lost.

is this true with all types of subq and IM injections?

[dustin]

is this true with all types of subq and IM injections?

I think it'd be pretty hard to quantify numbers but I think it's safe to say that IV > IM > sub-q (in relation to bioavailability). But as always, I hope that someone is quick to correct me if I'm wrong.

[abc123]

I think it'd be pretty hard to quantify numbers but I think it's safe to say that IV > IM > sub-q (in relation to bioavailability). But as always, I hope that someone is quick to correct me if I'm wrong.

Who knows.  It sure makes sense, but drugs differ. 

I'm going to email my doctor and see what he says about GH in particular.

[abc123]

My doc's response:

"You are correct on the IV dosing.  There isn’t any absorption loss there!  We have done studies with GH and Sermorelin IV and the results were shockingly good.  It just isn’t a practical way to dose!   SQ dosing is very effective when it is properly placed and positioned.  IM is not beneficial to GH because the depot effect actually holds the hormone out of circulation, and is being degraded promptly.  There are some GH preparations that have trialed that are long acting, but these are so expensive and not practical either.  So, at this point, outer thigh sq is by far the best option."

[DIVISION]

hey fellas, plan on adding hgh into my routin with aas and slin. now, i am in bulking phase for a contest next year and i hear diff. opinions on how to take gh and when. what would you guys suggest? i will be running 4 ius gh and i have ran slin at 10ius tops p.w.

You should get by with 4IU ED if it's quality GH.

What brand?

The UG Chinese brands are hit and miss, and many are counterfeits.

GH is a quality of life type drug, something you should be prepared to use longterm if you start.

When I decide to use it, I'll buy enough in bulk to run it forever.


DIV