Melatonin?

[Soundness]

I believe in the medical world you have to prove it's validity more than anything else. Until then *puff* away.

You first need the funding to do the research.  Research today is for the most part commercially driven and has been for decades.

"Validity" is only a judgement on whether or not a study is measuring what it claims it does. For instance, it may not make sense, or there may be a lurking variable (something else influencing the results) you are not aware of. You may be claiming you've shown something you did not. In that case it would not be "valid."

[Necrosis]

You first need the funding to do the research.  Research today is for the most part commercially driven and has been for decades.

"Validity" is only a judgement on whether or not a study is measuring what it claims it does. For instance, it may not make sense, or there may be a lurking variable (something else influencing the results) you are not aware of. You may be claiming you've shown something you did not. In that case it would not be "valid."

i have no idea what you are blabbering about. Proper methodology reduces extraneous variables, science is predicated on this. Keep the thread on topic, on the topic of melatonin. I dont mind some off topic banter but you are just making ridiculous claims now.

Start another thread about piss if you like.

[Soundness]

i have no idea what you are blabbering about. Proper methodology reduces extraneous variables, science is predicated on this. Keep the thread on topic, on the topic of melatonin. I dont mind some off topic banter but you are just making ridiculous claims now.

Start another thread about piss if you like.

Just because you personally don't realize something that doesn't make that thing you don't realize a "ridiculous claim."
You don't know it yet. Accept that and learn.

Are you aware of Type I and Type II errors and how frequently they occur despite "proper methodology?"
WTF, if you think "proper methodology" eliminates error it's obvious you're very amateur, Necrosis. 

[darksol]

Just so you guys know melatonin is a precurser to Estrogen.  My wife was taking it to help sleep at night. Then she started to get really bitchy, and was 8 days late on her period.  Take at your own risk.

[WillGrant]

Just so you guys know melatonin is a precurser to Estrogen.  My wife was taking it to help sleep at night. Then she started to get really bitchy, and was 8 days late on her period.  Take at your own risk.

I had the same sides 

[Necrosis]

Just because you personally don't realize something that doesn't make that thing you don't realize a "ridiculous claim."
You don't know it yet. Accept that and learn.

Are you aware of Type I and Type II errors and how frequently they occur despite "proper methodology?"
WTF, if you think "proper methodology" eliminates error it's obvious you're very amateur, Necrosis. 

i have done advanced statistics courses, clinical research courses and you are wrong. Proper methodology reduces error as much as possible and a well designed study, with proper power, double blind rct eliminates most error, especially with drug trials.

you are no left to arguing that the negative studies are flawed..... weak.

[polychronopolous]

I would recommend Melatonin to anyone who is trying to improve the quality of their sleep.

[phemonmmill32]

i have done advanced statistics courses, clinical research courses and you are wrong. Proper methodology reduces error as much as possible and a well designed study, with proper power, double blind rct eliminates most error, especially with drug trials.

you are no left to arguing that the negative studies are flawed..... weak.

i now think i'm going to have a lucid nightmare of an upper level stats class i took last fall thanks to this thread

i'm waiting on this soundness guy to claim piss has anabolic properties next

[pumpster]

the dose that would be worth taking is 300mcg that is micrograms. .

Ridiculous. Mg is the dose on any bottle found in stores you idiot.

[Necrosis]

Ridiculous. Mg is the dose on any bottle found in stores you idiot.

BWHAHAHHAHAHA........... . MELTDOWNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN NNNN

thats because the brands you buy are shit, also because you are stupid and have no knowledge of nutrition or training.

dont melt again.

Hope you can read....

http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2001/melatonin-1017.html

"According to our research, the physiological dose of melatonin of about 0.3 milligrams restores sleep in adults over the age of 50," said Wurtman, lead investigator in the study. "The adults who would normally wake up during the second and third thirds of the night were able to sleep through the night with the 0.3 milligram dosage."

OH NOESSSSSSSSSSS

"The researchers also discovered that the typical health food store dosage of melatonin, which is about three milligrams (or 10 times the dosage in the study), is less effective in treating insomnia. In addition, the higher dosage can cause potentially serious side effects, including hypothermia (low body temperature). The study also showed that the higher dosage elevated plasma melatonin levels during the day, which can cause a "hangover" effect in some of the subjects"

watch your mouth convict

[WillGrant]

BWHAHAHHAHAHA............ MELTDOWNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN NNNN

thats because the brands you buy are shit, also because you are stupid and have no knowledge of nutrition or training.

dont melt again.

Hope you can read....

http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2001/melatonin-1017.html

"According to our research, the physiological dose of melatonin of about 0.3 milligrams restores sleep in adults over the age of 50," said Wurtman, lead investigator in the study. "The adults who would normally wake up during the second and third thirds of the night were able to sleep through the night with the 0.3 milligram dosage."

OH NOESSSSSSSSSSS

"The researchers also discovered that the typical health food store dosage of melatonin, which is about three milligrams (or 10 times the dosage in the study), is less effective in treating insomnia. In addition, the higher dosage can cause potentially serious side effects, including hypothermia (low body temperature). The study also showed that the higher dosage elevated plasma melatonin levels during the day, which can cause a "hangover" effect in some of the subjects"

watch your mouth convict

Great post mate

[Necrosis]

Great post mate

thanks, normally i wouldnt be such as ass on this board but pumpster seems to be a habitual know-it-all asshole. He is a habitual line stepper.

[chaos]

EXACTLY! Did you catch Necrosis' sorry ass reply's and epic inability to learn and comprehend? 

Learning from others' personal experience is heresay, not scientific.

[The Master]

EXACTLY! Did you catch Necrosis' sorry ass reply's and epic inability to learn and comprehend? 

Necrosis = a good guy, and he = Gary Busey approved.

You = approved as well, for your initiative in the piss.

[Bluto]

I cant seem to find a bad word about melatonin, or anyone saying 3mg or higher is a high dose.

you sure you on top of this necro ?

[Rimbaud]

BWHAHAHHAHAHA............ MELTDOWNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN NNNN

thats because the brands you buy are shit, also because you are stupid and have no knowledge of nutrition or training.

dont melt again.

Hope you can read....

http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2001/melatonin-1017.html

"According to our research, the physiological dose of melatonin of about 0.3 milligrams restores sleep in adults over the age of 50," said Wurtman, lead investigator in the study. "The adults who would normally wake up during the second and third thirds of the night were able to sleep through the night with the 0.3 milligram dosage."

OH NOESSSSSSSSSSS

"The researchers also discovered that the typical health food store dosage of melatonin, which is about three milligrams (or 10 times the dosage in the study), is less effective in treating insomnia. In addition, the higher dosage can cause potentially serious side effects, including hypothermia (low body temperature). The study also showed that the higher dosage elevated plasma melatonin levels during the day, which can cause a "hangover" effect in some of the subjects"

watch your mouth convict

That's happened to me almost everytime I've taken it.

[Bluto]

thats a pretty old study, 2001. i wonder if there's been plenty of more since then and if their conclusions are the same

[Bluto]

ill try my luck with pubmed but so far ive only found a study about jetlag:

Comparative study to determine the optimal melatonin dosage form for the alleviation of jet lag.

To compare the impact of various dosage forms of melatonin and placebo on jet lag symptoms, 320 volunteers who had flights over 6 to 8 time zones were recruited for a double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled study. The volunteers received either melatonin 0.5-mg fast-release (FR) formulation, melatonin 5-mg FR formulation, melatonin 2-mg controlled-release (CR) formulation, or placebo. The study medication was taken once daily at bedtime during 4 days after an eastward flight. The volunteers completed the Profile of Mood States (POMS), sleep log, and symptoms questionnaires once daily and the Karolinska Sleepiness Scale (KSS) three times daily prior to departure and during the 4 days of medication intake postflight. A total of 234 (73.1%) participants were compliant and completed the study. The FR melatonin formulations were more effective than the slow-release formulation. The 5-mg FR formulation significantly improved the self-rated sleep quality (p < .05), shortened sleep latency (p < .05), and reduced fatigue and daytime sleepiness (p < .05) after intercontinental flight. The lower physiological dose of 0.5 mg was almost as effective as the pharmacological dose of 5.0 mg. Only the hypnotic properties of melatonin, sleep quality and sleep latency, were significantly greater with the 5.0-mg dose.

[Bluto]

I also found a study of retards 

Mentally retarded people typically exhibit poor sleep efficiency and reduced nocturnal plasma melatonin levels. The daytime administration of oral melatonin to those people, in doses that raise their plasma melatonin levels to the nocturnal range, can accelerate sleep onset. We examined the ability of similar, physiological doses to restore nighttime melatonin levels and sleep efficiency in mentally retarded subjects with sleep deficits. In a double-blind, placebo-controlled study, mentally retarded subjects (n = 20) received, in randomized order, a placebo and two melatonin doses (0.1, and 3.0 mg) orally 30 minutes before bedtime for a week. Treatments were separated by 1-week washout periods. Sleep data were obtained by polysomnography on the last three nights of each treatment period. The physiologic melatonin dose (0.3 mg) restored sleep efficiency (p < 0.0001), acting principally in the midthird of the night; it also elevated plasma melatonin levels (p < 0.0008) to normal. The lowest dose (0.1 mg) also improved sleep.

[darksol]

I forgot to mention that not only did she get bitchy, and was late on her period. Her boobs got bigger and swollen.  This might be great for the ladies, but in guys this might increase the chance of a gyno.

[SouthernCrew]

to crack this one back open. i cant take this stuff anymore i sleep like im in a coma all day and night and have the most wild dreams!

[kukacomone]

Any new studies on melatonin? Somewhere I read its a miracle substance, somewhere they say its dangerous. I am running out of it, and now I am considering should I buy more or not.
Lately I take it every night, 3mg dosage since months, no side effects.
Btw I am 22 y/o male, and I can sleep without it.

[Necrosis]

I cant seem to find a bad word about melatonin, or anyone saying 3mg or higher is a high dose.

you sure you on top of this necro ?

ya for sleep induction and quality the lower dose seems to work best. However, there have been studies with melatonin in the close to gram range for long periods showing no ill effects. Also, im not against taking higher doses as i once stated, after continual usuage the next day hypersomnolence is gone. Also, it is a potent antioxidant and with the safety data higher doses offer potential health benefits. I mentioned this before but for people with GERD, you may want to try 6-9 mgs of melatonin a day to reduce symptoms, it is quite effective and validated by research. There has been quite a bit of research on cancer and melatonin and the possible treatment of such. I think it is a great supplement and if treating solely insomnia, i would still recommend the lower dosing.

Hypertens Res. 2009 Oct 30. [Epub ahead of print]

Melatonin for nondippers with coronary artery disease: assessment of blood pressure profile and heart rate variability.
Rechciński T, Trzos E, Wierzbowska-Drabik K, Krzemińska-Pakuła M, Kurpesa M.

Department of Cardiology, Biegański Hospital, Medical University of Lodz, Lodz, Poland.

The aim of this study was to assess the effects of 5 mg melatonin before sleep in patients with coronary artery disease (CAD) and with an abnormal circadian pattern of blood pressure (BP) on changes in circadian BP profile and heart rate variability (HRV). Sixty patients with CAD, nondippers aged 48-80 years (male 75%), were included. In addition to previous treatment, they were randomly allocated to melatonin or placebo. After 90 days, a second 24-h BP monitoring was carried out. Each patient had two sessions (before randomization and at the end of study) of 24-h ECG monitoring to assess the changes in HRV. Inclusion of melatonin led to BP pattern normalization in 35% of patients in the melatonin group and in 15% of controls (P=0.609). This effect was reached not only by a decrease in nighttime BP, but also by an increase in daytime BP (significant in the melatonin group). A nonoptimal effect for BP profile was observed in 12.5% of patients: extreme- or reverse dippers. In patients with conversion from nondippers to dippers (responders), an increase in standard deviation of normal-to-normal intervals between initial and final HRV analyses was observed. Nonresponders represented an increase in the mean circadian heart rate. To avoid nonoptimal effects, the inclusion of melatonin in pharmacotherapy of patients with CAD should be based on monitoring of circadian BP profile, before and during treatment. As melatonin caused not only a nocturnal decrease in BP but also a daytime increase, it should not be recommended in patients with 'high normal' values of BP because of the danger of induction of arterial hypertension.Hypertensio n Research advance online publication, 30 October 2009; doi:10.1038/hr.2009.174

melatonin and its relationship to blood pressure. Sorry guys there is a shit ton of research but im so sedated right now i dont think i can weed through it much more. If anyone wants more info on melatonin or research for general knowledge just request it. i have absolutely no problem helping, i rather enjoy learning about possible therapies.

Postepy Hig Med Dosw (Online). 2009 Sep 15;63:425-34.

[MT1 melatonin receptors and their role in the oncostatic action of melatonin]
[Article in Polish]

Danielczyk K, Dziegiel P.

Katedra i Zakład Histologii i Embriologii Akademii Medycznej im. Piastów Slaskich we Wrocławiu.

Melatonin, the main hormone produced by the pineal gland, strongly inhibits the growth of cancer cells in vitro and in vivo. Some publications indicate that the addition of melatonin to culture medium slows the proliferation of some cancer cell lines. It is also suggested that melatonin used as an adjuvant benefits the effectiveness and tolerance of chemotherapy. The mechanisms of this are not fully understood, but melatonin receptors might be one of the most important elements. Two distinct types of membrane-bound melatonin receptors have been identified in humans: MT1 (Mel1a) and MT2 (Mel1b) receptors. These subtypes are 60% homologous at the amino-acid level. MT1 receptors are G-protein-coupled receptors. Through the a subunit of G protein, melatonin receptors stimulate an adenylate cyclase and decrease the level of cAMP. This has a significant influence on cell proliferation and has been confirmed in many tests on different cell lines, such as S-19, B-16 murine melanoma cells, and breast cancer cells. It seems that expression of the MT1 melatonin receptors benefits the efficacy of melatonin treatment. Melatonin and its receptors may provide a promising way to establish new alternative therapeutic approaches in human cancer prevention.


some research on cancer(above and below).

Br J Cancer. 2009 Nov 3;101(9):1613-9. Epub 2009 Sep 22.

Melatonin inhibits aromatase promoter expression by regulating cyclooxygenases expression and activity in breast cancer cells.
Martínez-Campa C, González A, Mediavilla MD, Alonso-González C, Alvarez-García V, Sánchez-Barceló EJ, Cos S.

Department of Physiology and Pharmacology, School of Medicine, University of Cantabria, 39011 Santander, Spain.

BACKGROUND: Melatonin reduces the development of breast cancer interfering with oestrogen-signalling pathways, and also inhibits aromatase activity and expression. Our objective was to study the promoters through which melatonin modifies aromatase expression, evaluate the ability of melatonin to regulate cyclooxygenases and assess whether the effects of melatonin are related to its effects on intracellular cAMP, in MCF-7 cells. METHODS: Total aromatase mRNA, aromatase mRNA promoter regions and cyclooxygenases mRNA expression were determined by real-time RT-PCR. PGE(2) and cAMP were measured by kits. RESULTS: Melatonin downregulated the gene expression of the two major specific aromatase promoter regions, pII and pI.3, and also that of the aromatase promoter region pI.4. Melatonin 1 nM was able to counteract the stimulatory effect of tetradecanoyl phorbol acetate on PGE(2) production and inhibit COX-2 and COX-1 mRNA expression. Melatonin 1 nM elicited a parallel time-dependent decrease in both cyclic AMP formation and aromatase mRNA expression. CONCLUSIONS: This study shows that melatonin inhibits aromatase activity and expression by regulating the gene expression of specific aromatase promoter regions. A possible mechanism for these effects would be the regulation by melatonin of intracellular cAMP levels, mediated by an inhibition of cyclooxygenase activity and expression.


cool thing about this study is it confirms that melatonin is an anti-estrogen via inhibiting testosterone aromatization. Anyway i want to examine the role of melatonin on GH production as topically it is synergistic with GH in osteoblastic(bone building) activity. I have a look tom, im zonked.