Meet the new Iraq, same as the old Iraq...

[240 is Back]

Under Saddam, the shoe-thrower would have been killed.

Under the new leader, and under US guard, the shoe thrower is having his ass kicked over there.

Does this new flavor of 'democracy' allow for torture? 


Al-Zaidi in U.S. run Camp Cropper prison

Iraqi TV al-Sharqiya just reported on the news that AL-Zaidi is transferred to Camp Cropper prison .

The TV Channel announced that Al-Zaidi is in a difficult condition, with broken ribs and signs of tortures on his thighs. Also he can not move his right arm.

[Dan-O]

Good.  He's a punk.  You just don't throw shoes at visiting heads of state.  So he got arrested and he probably resisted arrest and there's evidence of a scuffle.  What did the uncivilized dumbass think would happen?

[240 is Back]

Again - once you condone any sort of torture/beating, it can be used in a wide variety of places.

The minute it's okay for a man to be tortured in US custody, it opens up a lot of abuse potential in the future.

You make this acceptable and in 2 years it'll be acceptable to beat political dissidents, and in 2 more you give police power to beat pedestrians based on their own judgment.

New iraq = same as old Iraq.  Only now, it's happening in US prisons there


Source: BBC

The brother of the Iraqi journalist who threw his shoes at US President George W Bush has said that the reporter has been beaten in custody.

Muntadar al-Zaidi has suffered a broken hand, broken ribs and internal bleeding, as well as an eye injury, his older brother, Dargham, told the BBC.

Meanwhile, offers to buy the shoes are being made around the Arab world, reports say.

The Iraqi authorities have said the 28-year-old will be prosecuted under Iraqi law, although it is not yet clear what the charges might be.

Iraqi lawyers have speculated that he could face charges of insulting a foreign leader and the Iraqi Prime Minister, Nouri al Maliki, who was standing next to President Bush during the incident. The offence carries a maximum penalty of two years in jail.

[Dan-O]

So the dude's brother says he was tortured, as was also insinuated by a local news agency that's very critical of the "New Iraq."  Hmm, forgive me if I hold off on jumping to conclusions just yet.  Like I said, he got arrested and he likely resisted arrest because let's face it, anybody who throws their shoes at a visiting head of state is a bit of a hotheaded nutjob.

So I suspect a) allegations of torture may be exaggerated and b) allegations of the man's injuries may also be exaggerated and c) he freakin physically assaulted the President of the US.  Again, wtf did he think would happen, he'd get a freakin medal or something?  I mean, freakin, really, come on.

[240 is Back]

So the dude's brother says he was tortured, as was also insinuated by a local news agency that's very critical of the "New Iraq."  Hmm, forgive me if I hold off on jumping to conclusions just yet.  Like I said, he got arrested and he likely resisted arrest because let's face it, anybody who throws their shoes at a visiting head of state is a bit of a hotheaded nutjob.

So I suspect a) allegations of torture may be exaggerated and b) allegations of the man's injuries may also be exaggerated and c) he freakin physically assaulted the President of the US.  Again, wtf did he think would happen, he'd get a freakin medal or something?  I mean, freakin, really, come on.

So get on the record.

Is torture okay in this case - yes or no?

[a_joker10]

Actually his condition isn't know yet and he received many injuries from other journalists in the press conference that tackled and held him for the authoirty.

[Dan-O]

So get on the record.

Is torture okay in this case - yes or no?

No, torture is not okay.  But like I said...  I consider the two sources cited thus far to be biased, non-objective and less than reputable.  Crying "torture" is the best way for them to garner public support for the shmuck and incite public unrest.  I sincerely doubt their allegations and the alleged extent of the assailant's injuries.  The brother's description was more severe than that made by al-Sharqiya and the accounts differ somewhat.

Hey, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong.  What do I know.  But I think it's a little premature to get all worked up in a tizzy about alleged torture just yet, based on the two sources cited.

[240 is Back]

Second Camera Angle on Zaidi - punched while being removed from press conference 
 Advertisements [?]The NY Times web site has a video of the shoe throwing from more than one angle. Go to this link

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/16/world/middleeast/16sh...

and scroll half way down the page - passed the standard footage of the incident to a second video. Play THAT! It is from the opposite side of the aisle in the press room and captures some of what happens to Muntader al-Zaidi that has not been shown elsewhere (to my knowledged).

The first video goes black as people swarm Mr. Zaidi. This one keeps rolling. It shows security dragging him up and away; you hear him shouting and crying out in pain. It appears he is being punched from underneath as they lift him. In the background you can see Bush and Maliki at the podium. This second camera confirms what is mentioned in the accompanying article, that security punched Zaidi after he had been subdued.

"Mr. Zaidi was subdued by a fellow journalist and then beaten by members of the prime minister’s security detail, who hauled him out of the room in his white socks. Mr. Zaidi’s cries could be heard from a nearby room as the news conference continued."

If his cries could be heard from a nearby room, presumably by those present in the press room, then it is probable Bush heard them, too.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/16/world/middleeast/16sh...

(If anyone can grab this video, please post it.)
 

[Dan-O]

So the clown got his ass kicked by security after assaulting someone.  Ummm...  I hardly think that's the first time THAT'S happened.  So do I condone that?  No, that's not exactly due process...  but again, I'll bet you dollars to donuts he resisted arrest and brought a lot of those injuries on himself and now he's whining about it.  Whatever.

His whole objective was to cause a scene and bring attention to himself.  So he succeeded and of course he's gonna milk it for all it's worth, duh!

[a_joker10]

You assume its the security detail
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1094654/Bush-Iraqi-shoe-attack-Why-didnt-Secret-Service-loafer-president.html
After the second shoe is hurled - and Al-Zeidi is being tackled to the ground (note, by journalists, not Secret Service agents) one agent does finally run towards Bush - but the president then holds his hand up to hold him off, apparently having already had time to ascertain for himself that his life is not in danger.

[IFBBwannaB]

Why you all take 240 seriously? If someone will throw a shoe at Obama inauguration he will call for his execution lol 

[Hereford]

Torture is good, and should be used extensively in the US.

Thinks about it:

1. 20 lashes is a lot cheaper than a year in jail.
2. If you're gonna get tortured... that's a pretty big deterrant. Going to jail for free room/board for awhile sometimes is not.
3. Some of the criminals and idiots in this country could really use a beat-down.

I think we should bring back the whole 'public humiliation' thing too.

[a_joker10]

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/12/16/mideast/iraq.php

According to The Associated Press, Al Baghdadia reported that Zaidi had been "seriously injured" during his detention and called on the government to allow lawyers and the Iraqi Red Crescent to visit him. Later, however, one of his brothers said that he had spoken by telephone with Zaidi, who told him, "Thank God, I am in good health," The AP reported.