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Author Topic: ac joint, or for anyone with shoulder pain  (Read 34335 times)
Sambo12
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« Reply #75 on: July 02, 2005, 05:31:56 AM »

Hello mate,

Glad to hear that your operation went well and your starting on your road to recovery. Brilliant news bro, you must be relieved its finally happening now.
Good luck with your rehab and for the bitch of a time you have ahead waiting for the surgery on your other side. Im sure your tough enough to take it tho. Hang i there and keep focussed on the end goal.

Take care.

Sam
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Tubbs
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« Reply #76 on: July 02, 2005, 08:04:06 AM »

Hello mate,

Glad to hear that your operation went well and your starting on your road to recovery. Brilliant news bro, you must be relieved its finally happening now.
Good luck with your rehab and for the bitch of a time you have ahead waiting for the surgery on your other side. Im sure your tough enough to take it tho. Hang i there and keep focussed on the end goal.

Take care.

Sam
Thanks bro, it all went well, now it's rehab time. My goal is to be back in the gym early November. And you, still going stronger as the days go by?
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Tubbs
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« Reply #77 on: July 05, 2005, 09:25:16 AM »

Hi guys, how are you all doing? I've got a question for Sambo, VaTech and the other ones who got the surgery: how many weeks after the surgery did you begin to recover all your flexibility? This way I'll know if I am on the right track, thanks Smiley
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Sambo12
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« Reply #78 on: July 05, 2005, 10:40:08 AM »

Hey man,

After surgery I began with simple pendulum swings with my arm. This continues for about 1-2 weeks, then some wall climbing with my hand crawling like a spider up and down it to get the movement back. This went on for another weeks I guess. Then came the internal/ external rotations. For me it actually took a good 6-8 weeks before i could even think about doing a cross body or behind back stretch for my shoulder. But this is because my surgery was pretty more severe as I had a resection of the AC joint done too. So you may be quicker up tp speed than me on this.

Right now progress is still steady and progressive. Im getting there bro, its just taking time. But its safe to say that the progress since before having the surgery is amazing and I feel absolutley great. I do have some bad days if I have pushed myself and it gets a little sore. But I just back off and wait for the all clear of no pain. At present Im now back to some dumbbell pressing for my shoulders with some ok'ish weight.... about 20kb dumbbells, and this does feel fine. I mean I know I could do more, but am now super cautious and take everything in slow steps. I reckon in another 4-5 months I could be back to some serious training once more......  Grin

Take it east bro, my thoughts are with you.

Sam
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« Reply #79 on: July 05, 2005, 10:59:39 AM »

Hey man,

After surgery I began with simple pendulum swings with my arm. This continues for about 1-2 weeks, then some wall climbing with my hand crawling like a spider up and down it to get the movement back. This went on for another weeks I guess. Then came the internal/ external rotations. For me it actually took a good 6-8 weeks before i could even think about doing a cross body or behind back stretch for my shoulder. But this is because my surgery was pretty more severe as I had a resection of the AC joint done too. So you may be quicker up tp speed than me on this.

Right now progress is still steady and progressive. Im getting there bro, its just taking time. But its safe to say that the progress since before having the surgery is amazing and I feel absolutley great. I do have some bad days if I have pushed myself and it gets a little sore. But I just back off and wait for the all clear of no pain. At present Im now back to some dumbbell pressing for my shoulders with some ok'ish weight.... about 20kb dumbbells, and this does feel fine. I mean I know I could do more, but am now super cautious and take everything in slow steps. I reckon in another 4-5 months I could be back to some serious training once more......  Grin

Take it east bro, my thoughts are with you.

Sam
Thanks Sam, hope I'll be as smart as you in my rehab process; be warned, I'm gonna ask you for your "back in the gym" routine as soon as I'll be able to lift a weight Grin It's working so well for you, I HAVE TO USE IT TOO Cool
Thanks again, speak to you soon.
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« Reply #80 on: August 03, 2005, 03:57:31 PM »

Do any of you guys know what grade of separation you had?  I injury'd my
shoulder about two months ago and the orthopedic told me its a grade II
separation.
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« Reply #81 on: October 07, 2005, 09:22:58 AM »

Hey guys, how are you doing? Surgery on my right shoulder mid-october. Hope to hear from you soon.
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« Reply #82 on: October 07, 2005, 02:54:30 PM »

Hey Tubbs!

Let me us know how the surgery goes and what was actually done.  I'd be happy to help you with any questions in the postop period, including phasing in exercises, etc.

Good luck!

freak
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« Reply #83 on: October 08, 2005, 07:55:15 AM »

Thanks "Doc"! Well, my physio went very well and now my shoulder is completely healed, my range of motion is total. I will have surgery on the right one the 19th of october. Like you know I've had a subacromial decompression, they've "only" shaved part of my acromium and removed part of my subacromial bursae in order to do so. I've a question about the later: my surgeon told me that the bursae was very inflamed when he removed part of it and I've to admit that sometimes, when I do some rehab moves, I feel like a weakness, the same kind of feeling I had before the surgery but way way weaker, as if the bursae was still a bit inflamed. So here are my questions about that: is this normal, at least the first few months after the surgery? Will my bursae get healthy now that the tendons have a total range of motion? Is there a way to speed the healing of the bursae?
Thanks again for taking time to answer our questions, it's really appreciated.
 
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« Reply #84 on: October 10, 2005, 04:48:29 AM »

A bursa is a normal structure that interposes between bony prominences and soft tissue.  In the case of the subacromial bursa, it helps protect the underlying rotator cuff muscles from friction associated with rubbing against the acromion.  The bursa is always inflamed with subacromial impingement syndrome, and must be removed to do the decompression. 

You ask a good question here--does the bursa itself reform?  I must say I am not exactly sure whether it does, or if, more likely, fibrous scar tissue interposes into the spot.  In the cases I have done where the patient has had a previous decompression (hopefully done by someone else Grin) the area does tend to be filled with scar tissue.

I think the best way for this area to recover is to keep the joint moving.  Don't worry about the strength as that will come with time.  Also, work specifically on rotator cuff strengthening.  Best exercise here:

Lay on your left side on a flat bench.  Hold a LIGHT dumbell in your right hand with your upper arm and elbow pressed up right against your side.  Rotate the arm as if your elbow is glued to your side but free to rotate.  Should chose a weight that allows about 15 reps. Repeat on other side.  This is a very different motion than a lateral raise. This will specifically work the rotator cuff.
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Tubbs
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« Reply #85 on: October 10, 2005, 05:56:51 AM »

Thanks Freak, I'm doing rehab exercises whenever I have a minute, and I have to say that I'm really happy of the range of motion I have right now, mostly because it's pain free. Could you give us a list of exercises to avoid at all costs when you hit back the gym, at least the first few months. Dips, pull ups, flyes?
Thanks again freak, you're a blessing for this board Smiley
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freakfestMD
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« Reply #86 on: October 12, 2005, 07:21:12 AM »

Thanks Tubbs.

Obviously any exercise that causes discomfort should be avoided.  However, many exercises can be modified slightly and still be of benefit.  Here is where dumbell work can be particularly beneficial over machines that have a "preset" direction of motion.

For example, if lateral raises cause you discomfort, simply changing the arc (direction) of motion or even the position of your hands may still allow them to be done.  For example, when my own subacromial joint acts up, lateral raises are a killer.  I modify it to lower weights, and then hold the dumbell differently.  In this case, I satrt with my hands facing backwards (palm back, with forearm pronated) and arc straight out to the side.  The dumbell stays perfectly parallel to the plane of my body.  Range of motion is less, but it torches the delt and causes no impingement pain.

For barbell work, varying grip width may be of benefit also.  I'll usually drop out incline benching and do more declines, which place much less stress on the subacromial space.  I'll also drop out front squats (the ultimate subacromial crusher!).

Just play around with it, but start out light and give yourself LOTS of time to recover.  You WILL get there again, I promise.  As Randy (Macho MAN) Savage once told me during a squat session at Mid-City Gym in NYC:  "Know your body and survive."
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« Reply #87 on: October 12, 2005, 08:18:35 AM »

Thanks bro; I just hope to be able to enjoy my work-outs again, that's truly the most important thing here. I'm sure I'll have more questions to ask you down the road!!
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« Reply #88 on: October 18, 2005, 06:48:51 PM »

Hey fellas, I separated my shoulder about 4months ago and Im have a lot of pain still when doing any pressing movement (doing chest is the worst). I am contemplating surgery, and was wandering how the guys that had the surgery are feeling and/or the guys who just waited it out how are you feeling?
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« Reply #89 on: October 18, 2005, 07:17:53 PM »

Hey johnnyx, If i were you i would go for the surgery, I should have not waited for mine, I'am going under the knife dec 16, and i can't wait, to be pain free. Just look at it this way a little break from training will be good for your body. But go to a good doctor that  does only shoulders, and have him check you over, and make sure that its your joint that is the problem. They have many ways of checking, I found a cortisone shot in the joint helped make up my mind really fast, when you go in to the doc's office with the pain in your shoulder, then the next day the pain is gone,from the cortisone it really helps you decide what to do. Tubbs i'am glad to here things are going well with you. How is it a few days after does it hurt, and if so what is the pain like? Can you sleep ok, or does it keep you up?
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« Reply #90 on: October 18, 2005, 10:45:08 PM »

Hi BigJay! Well, I'm doing the right one today. Don't be afraid, the first day I felt kind of miserable, mostly because I realized I had no range of motion at all and that the physio would be a pain in the ass, but the next day it was already way better. I had no problem to sleep or whatsoever. The first week, taking a shower, putting your clothes on, etc. will be kind of difficult, but things will be better sooner than you think. Johnnyx, go for the surgery, it won't get any better without it.
I'll tell you more soon. Take care guys.
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« Reply #91 on: October 19, 2005, 06:41:05 AM »

johnnyX:  Don't confuse your condition with theirs.  A "separated shoulder", i.e. an acromioclavicular joint disruption, is a VERY diffierent condition than the subacromial impingement syndrome that has been the topic of this thread.  The procedures for AC separation are VERY different, with a MUCH longer recovery.
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« Reply #92 on: October 19, 2005, 03:45:50 PM »

Hey johnnyx, If i were you i would go for the surgery, I should have not waited for mine, I'am going under the knife dec 16, and i can't wait, to be pain free......

Good luck!! keep us posted on the outcome .... how long had it been until you decided to get the surgery?


johnnyX: Don't confuse your condition with theirs. A "separated shoulder", i.e. an acromioclavicular joint disruption, is a VERY diffierent condition than the subacromial impingement syndrome that has been the topic of this thread. The procedures for AC separation are VERY different, with a MUCH longer recovery.

I have tried to inform myself with as much on what to do about separated shoulders and Im still in limbo.  All of the information I have come across on the net usually are mountain bikers who have crashed and careless about lifting weights or just basic info on what a separation is on orthro sites.  Im having a hard time finding what weight lifters who have separated there AC joint do, and how they approach the surgery/ to non surgery? Thanks for any reponses...

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« Reply #93 on: October 19, 2005, 07:49:07 PM »

Johnnyx, freakfestmd is right i've heard of your injury, if i'am corect they go into your shoulder and permanently attach things back together, you could try this site, www.shouder1.com its pretty good source of info. Good luck with the surgery Tubbs, keep in touch, and thanks for the info.
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Tubbs
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« Reply #94 on: October 20, 2005, 02:33:53 AM »

Johnnyx, freakfestmd is right i've heard of your injury, if i'am corect they go into your shoulder and permanently attach things back together, you could try this site, www.shouder1.com its pretty good source of info. Good luck with the surgery Tubbs, keep in touch, and thanks for the info.
I'm back home...beginning physio on monday. This one was even less painful than the first one bro. Don't worry, yours is gonna be fine too!
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« Reply #95 on: November 20, 2005, 12:36:59 AM »

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Tubbs
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« Reply #96 on: December 19, 2005, 04:23:05 AM »

So, Big Jay, how are you? Hope everything went just fine Smiley
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« Reply #97 on: December 22, 2005, 07:03:46 PM »

Hey, Tubbs good to hear back from you i had it done last Friday, it went well. It hurt like hell about 10 hours later, after the shoulder block was gone. {they put me under and froze my shoulder and arm} it still hurts now and i have to take pain killers, my range of motion is almost nill. And wouldn't you know it we had a huge snow storm that day 41cm fell i was 3 hours late getting to the hospital, due to traffic. Luckily the surgeon took the guy that was after me first. And how about yourself are you recovering well, i have a feeling its going to take awhile before i'am 100%, talk to you later, jason.
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« Reply #98 on: December 27, 2005, 03:59:43 PM »

Some background on this topic...

As mentioned, AC joint pain is very common in weightlifters.  Usually it can be related to bench pressing, which maximizes load across the joint.  This little joint with a 1cm2 area is the only osseous connection from the arm to the torso.  A large load across it therefore creates massive force/area.  Imagine a 160lb guy stepping on your hand.. unpleasant.  Now imagine a 160lb FBB in 4" heels stepping on your hand.  Same principle of force / area.

This causes a condition called clavicular osteolysis (can also be caused by AC separation).  At this point the joint is very tender and it hurts to bench press, do push-ups, etc.  Incline bench unloads the joint somewhat and can be used while healing.  Resting will result in a cure.  If the injury continues, osteoarthritis ensues and pain becomes chronic.  At this point a Mumford procedure is performed (resection of the distal clavicle), which can relieve pain (no joint, no pain).  This is well tolerated, as you all have documented.  However, shoulder pain can be from other conditions such as a labral tear, and such treatment can make the shoulder more unstable.  AC separation usually heals by itself but needs rest from training.

So.. I urge caution before jumping into this.  I've seen weightlifters ruined by the wrong surgery as well.  See an orthopedic shoulder surgeon.  Get your MRI and have it read by a musculoskeletal radiologist.
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« Reply #99 on: December 28, 2005, 05:55:22 AM »

Hey, Tubbs good to hear back from you i had it done last Friday, it went well. It hurt like hell about 10 hours later, after the shoulder block was gone. {they put me under and froze my shoulder and arm} it still hurts now and i have to take pain killers, my range of motion is almost nill. And wouldn't you know it we had a huge snow storm that day 41cm fell i was 3 hours late getting to the hospital, due to traffic. Luckily the surgeon took the guy that was after me first. And how about yourself are you recovering well, i have a feeling its going to take awhile before i'am 100%, talk to you later, jason.
Resumed my work-outs two weeks ago, no more pain, but still using light weights of course...but it feels great, because for the first time in more than 2 years I enjoy my work-outs. I could use more weight than I do but I want to do it the right way. Don't worry bro, the first ten days you're like "it's gonna take months", but after 10 physio sessions you'll already see a big difference Smiley. Keep in touch.
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