Obama stimulus plan - thoughts?

[One]

id like to hear so thoughts on the 700 billion dollar infrastructure spending plan.  to me it makes no sense to go into more debt to make our roads nicer.

i think we need to subsidize the start-up of industries that have been totally stolen from us through unfair trading practices of other countries like japan.
industries like:
televisions- do any american companies even make TVs any more?
electronics
etc.
and of course funding into alternative  power and electric car industry.

this infrastructure 'stimulus' plan seems like complete garbage to me.

[One]

i dont know why this got posted

[MuscleMcMannus]

Yeah let's spend tax payer money and give government the power to weatherize people's homes.  What a great use for government and tax payer money.  LOL Obongo the house negro will ruin this country. 

[One]

Yeah let's spend tax payer money and give government the power to weatherize people's homes.  What a great use for government and tax payer money.  LOL Obongo the house negro will ruin this country. 

i could think of much better ways to spend the money(which we dont have) than infrastructure.  all that will do is create temporary government jobs.
we need to focus on kickstarting certain industries and production, so we can produce long lasting sustainable wealth and jobs.  rather than making some roads nicer.  there are so many areas where we could expand industry.

[240 is Back]

we need to focus on kickstarting certain industries and production, so we can produce long lasting sustainable wealth and jobs.  rather than making some roads nicer.  there are so many areas where we could expand industry.

like what?  what industries should we kickstart?

[One]

like what?  what industries should we kickstart?

some i listed above  electronics industry, TVs etc.  electric cars, alternative energy.  im sure i can add to the list as more things come to mind.
europe funded the start of airbus with 15billion$, look how much economic return that has reaped for them.
the stimulous should be focused on industry and production, not freaking roads and bridges.

[240 is Back]

some i listed above  electronics industry, TVs etc. 

I don't see how we can compete with the chinese as far as manufacturing electronics.

They have folks making $1 an hour to do it.

We can have people doing it here for ten times more, but unless you jack up the tariffs, what motivation does walmart have for paying ten times more for the same product?



(this is assuming the US worker only make $10 an hour - with unions it'll be $40 per hour before long)

[One]

I don't see how we can compete with the chinese as far as manufacturing electronics.

They have folks making $1 an hour to do it.

We can have people doing it here for ten times more, but unless you jack up the tariffs, what motivation does walmart have for paying ten times more for the same product?



(this is assuming the US worker only make $10 an hour - with unions it'll be $40 per hour before long)

china assembles TVs for japanese/korean companies for the most part..can you name a chinese TV brand sold in the US?  i cant.  even if the TVs were assembled in china, at least the profits would be coming back to the US instead of going to japan and korea.  are there even any european TVs?
yeah, we cant compete with slave labor and devalued currency,  its impossible.  we've been treating trading 'partners' who cheat and use unfair practices as eaquals for too long.
ideally we need to enforce a labor tariff on every country to level the playing field.  america was built on tariffs.  but we are in so much debt with china, and they are desperate as it is to gain more market share around the world with the massive layoffs they're experiencing now at factories, it could and probably would start a trade war, we're really not in a good position for that.
anyway, this is just one industry where I think we have a lot of room to gain market share. whatever the case is, we need to focus on production, otherwise we are going to turn third world fast and that shiny new roads and bridges wont mean shit.

do you agree with obamas stimulus plan? 

[240 is Back]

do you agree with obamas stimulus plan? 

i agreed with Bush's because I got a nice check for 1500

I don't know exactly how I feel about obama's... it'll add 3 million jobs, but 4 million will be lost by then.  I won't mind a check coming my way, and if he cuts iraqi war spending (and convinces our allies to help fund afghanistan fighting), it'll free up funds to be used domestically. I'd MUCH prefer the $3 billion a week be spent on local guys who did construction last year who are out of work this year.

Honestly, I feel that most of this recession is the result of one thing - slowed production and spending due to that speculator oil run-up over $140 a barrel.  Once oil stabilizes for a few months, I think people will come out of their shell and start spending again.  We'll have some bumps from the 700 bil to 2 tril all-out theft package that Bush limped out of office with... but honestly, Obama will deliver optimism, coupled with oil stability... i think things will be fine by summer 09.

[bigdumbbell]

30 years past due for an active industrial policy. all the shit is breaking now.

[One]

30 years past due for an active industrial policy. all the shit is breaking now.

industrial or infrastructure program?

[bigdumbbell]

industrial or infrastructure program?

i include both in my active plan

[a_joker10]

i agreed with Bush's because I got a nice check for 1500

I don't know exactly how I feel about obama's... it'll add 3 million jobs, but 4 million will be lost by then.  I won't mind a check coming my way, and if he cuts iraqi war spending (and convinces our allies to help fund afghanistan fighting), it'll free up funds to be used domestically. I'd MUCH prefer the $3 billion a week be spent on local guys who did construction last year who are out of work this year.

Honestly, I feel that most of this recession is the result of one thing - slowed production and spending due to that speculator oil run-up over $140 a barrel.  Once oil stabilizes for a few months, I think people will come out of their shell and start spending again.  We'll have some bumps from the 700 bil to 2 tril all-out theft package that Bush limped out of office with..

. but honestly, Obama will deliver optimism, coupled with oil stability... i think things will be fine by summer 09.

240 this is the best post I have ever read of yours.
Truck sales are already up.
Ford has the number 1 vehicle in North America again, the F-150;

[240 is Back]

240 this is the best post I have ever read of yours.
Truck sales are already up.
Ford has the number 1 vehicle in North America again, the F-150;

thanks

Once i realized I don't know everything, and can learn much more by listening than by talking, things started to make more sense.

[One]

i agreed with Bush's because I got a nice check for 1500

I don't know exactly how I feel about obama's... it'll add 3 million jobs, but 4 million will be lost by then.  I won't mind a check coming my way, and if he cuts iraqi war spending (and convinces our allies to help fund afghanistan fighting), it'll free up funds to be used domestically. I'd MUCH prefer the $3 billion a week be spent on local guys who did construction last year who are out of work this year.

Honestly, I feel that most of this recession is the result of one thing - slowed production and spending due to that speculator oil run-up over $140 a barrel.  Once oil stabilizes for a few months, I think people will come out of their shell and start spending again.  We'll have some bumps from the 700 bil to 2 tril all-out theft package that Bush limped out of office with... but honestly, Obama will deliver optimism, coupled with oil stability... i think things will be fine by summer 09.

i honestly cant see that happening at all, especially not so soon.
just curious, what do you predict will replace the housing boom/consumer debt binge as growth engine by that time?
i think its pretty clear that the worst has yet to come.

[Bindare_Dundat]

Honestly, I feel that most of this recession is the result of one thing - slowed production and spending due to that speculator oil run-up over $140 a barrel.  Once oil stabilizes for a few months, I think people will come out of their shell and start spending again.  We'll have some bumps from the 700 bil to 2 tril all-out theft package that Bush limped out of office with... but honestly, Obama will deliver optimism, coupled with oil stability... i think things will be fine by summer 09.

I thought you bought and read Crash Proof and then you made this post.  

[MuscleMcMannus]

haha things are going to be fine by summer of 2009?  Wow you really need to keep listening dude.  There are probably more dire circumstances to come about during 2009 than 2008.  We are just now starting to see unemployment begin to skyrocket.  Companies are just now starting massive lay offs.  This will keep going well into 2009.  Plus there are lots more problems in the real estate and commercial real estate market.  That latter hasn't even begun to ripple through the economy.  Combine that with the dollar dropping fast.  LMAO! 

[Bindare_Dundat]

haha things are going to be fine by summer of 2009?  Wow you really need to keep listening dude.  There are probably more dire circumstances to come about during 2009 than 2008.  We are just now starting to see unemployment begin to skyrocket.  Companies are just now starting massive lay offs.  This will keep going well into 2009.  Plus there are lots more problems in the real estate and commercial real estate market.  That latter hasn't even begun to ripple through the economy.  Combine that with the dollar dropping fast.  LMAO! 

Bang on. Rob is delusional if he thinks things will pick up by summer time. Ford F150 best selling truck? Ok, but what difference does that make when overall sales are  down across the board? Go to a Ford dealership lately? It's a ghost town, they are hurting so bad I thought the guy was gonna hang on to my ankle and never let go. I got called back so many times,  I told them it was bordering harassment.

[MuscleMcMannus]

Bang on. Rob is delusional if he thinks things will pick up by summer time. Ford F150 best selling truck? Ok, but what difference does that make when overall sales are  down across the board. Go to a Ford dealership lately? It's a ghost town, they are hurting so bad I thought the guy was gonna hang on to my ankle and never let go. I got called back so many times,  I told them it was bordering harassment.

Haha it's funny my old neighbor who wears the same outfit 7 days a week and lives off his SS check bought a brand new F150.  Just because F150's are selling doesn't mean anything.  It's a great time to buy a car but damn I can only imagine who annoying the sales people are right now.  Borderline harassment?  LMAO!  I don't doubt it.  I bought a new truck about a year and a half ago.  I wished I would have waited. 

[Bindare_Dundat]

Dec. 24 (Bloomberg) -- Silicon Valley, the technology mecca once considered immune to fallout from the global financial meltdown, now faces the biggest cutbacks since the dot-com crash.

“Lots of my friends have been laid off,” Peter Raulwing, a project manager for Microsoft Corp., said during lunch at a Starbucks in Palo Alto, California. “I absolutely watch what I spend. I feel lucky I’ve survived, but you never really know.”

He has reason for concern. Global spending on computers and software will slide 8 percent next year in the U.S., Western Europe and Japan, according to Goldman Sachs Group Inc. With a 7 percent unemployment rate, Silicon Valley has about 4,000 fewer jobs today than this time last year, the Center for the Continuing Study of the California Economy said last week.

[Bindare_Dundat]

NEW YORK (Reuters) - U.S. consumers are falling deeper into debt, an official at one of the largest U.S. credit bureaus told Reuters on Tuesday, as the U.S. recession deepens and job losses mount.

Dann Adams, president of U.S. Information Systems for Equifax Inc, said the already high rate of personal bankruptcies could increase. "We've seen a continued ramp up of delinquencies across the board," he said.

That would pile more bad debt on banks already struggling to cope with heavy mortgage-related losses.

Consumers are missing payments on mortgages, credit cards, and auto loans, Adams said, adding that Americans may be growing more reluctant to take on new debt and more willing to save.

[Bindare_Dundat]

The Economy's Latest Hurdle for Retailers: Shoplifting

Retailers have blamed the global financial crisis for a litany of ills over the past year: slumping sales, mass layoffs and bankruptcy filings. Now, they are looking to the economy to explain recent spikes in shoplifting from their stores.

Though individual retailers do not publicly report crime data, a survey of 52 national chain stores released this month by the Retail Industry Leaders Association (RILA), a trade group, showed that 84 percent reported an increase in shoplifting since the recession began. About 80 percent said organized retail crime had also jumped, and more than half said robberies and burglaries have risen, as well.

[Hedgehog]

I think the plan looks good so far.

Investing in infrastructure is something that will lead to a few things.

1. Creates jobs and keep down the unemployment rate.

2. It's an investment in upgrading of infrastructure - which have to be done in any case.

3. The upgrading of the infrastructure will in itself lead to an upgrading of different industries. Improved logistics, et al.


The alternative would be to use the same kind of money for dramatic tax cuts.

While that would jolt the economy and probably get it moving again, it is very much a temporary fix.

And the invested money would be gone once they're spent.

By using the money for improvements of infrastructure, the money will be put to, hopefully, good use.


Not saying that certain temporary tax cuts shouldn't be used.
But they can't turn the Titanic around.

The risk with a big stimulus plan like this is that corruption will get some people the same type of contracts Halliburton scored during the Iraq war.

But right now, people's tolerance with corruption seems to hit an all time low, so perhaps it can be avoided to some degree.

[Bindare_Dundat]

I think the plan looks good so far.

Investing in infrastructure is something that will lead to a few things.

1. Creates jobs and keep down the unemployment rate.

2. It's an investment in upgrading of infrastructure - which have to be done in any case.

3. The upgrading of the infrastructure will in itself lead to an upgrading of different industries. Improved logistics, et al.


The alternative would be to use the same kind of money for dramatic tax cuts.

While that would jolt the economy and probably get it moving again, it is very much a temporary fix.

And the invested money would be gone once they're spent.

By using the money for improvements of infrastructure, the money will be put to, hopefully, good use.


Not saying that certain temporary tax cuts shouldn't be used.
But they can't turn the Titanic around.

The risk with a big stimulus plan like this is that corruption will get some people the same type of contracts Halliburton scored during the Iraq war.

But right now, people's tolerance with corruption seems to hit an all time low, so perhaps it can be avoided to some degree.

Agree with the bolded parts. People's tolerance to corruption seems to hit an all time low? Disagree. Most Americans don't know or dont care where their money is going or how it's used, they are completly oblivious. All they now is, some politician is going to make everything better and that's all they hope for.

[Hedgehog]

Agree with the bolded parts. People's tolerance to corruption seems to hit an all time low? Disagree. Most Americans don't know or dont care where their money is going or how it's used, they are completly oblivious. All they now is, some politician is going to make everything better and that's all they hope for.

I saw some recent poll that showed that around 75% of all US citizens distrust their banks.

So there is a bit of an uproar going on.

Banks will have to work long and hard if they ever want to regain the confidence of the public.