Obama approval ratings highest ever for a president elect.

[Al Doggity]

Ahhh.. I wore a red shirt last Friday and it rained.  Therefore, the red shirt made it rain.

So, you're argument is that there is no connection between the actions of the President and the state of the country, economic or otherwise. Whatever happens happens and the actions of the person in office are irrelevant?

[240 is Back]

So, you're argument is that there is no connection between the actions of the President and the state of the country, economic or otherwise. Whatever happens happens and the actions of the person in office are irrelevant?

his are the ramblings of a child.

[MidniteRambo]

So, you're argument is that there is no connection between the actions of the President and the state of the country, economic or otherwise. Whatever happens happens and the actions of the person in office are irrelevant?

Nothing of the sort, the argument is that you cannot presume a cause and effect in a blanket statement without further analysis or evidence.  Example, Jimmy Carter becomes president and within three years the Iranians take hostages.  Does that mean Carter created the crisis?  Maybe, but not necessarily.  There are certainly worldwide economic forces which are beyond the powers of our elected officials to prevent.  Some leaders happen to be in the right place, or the wrong place, at the right time.

[MidniteRambo]

his are the ramblings of a child.

Don't you think you're being a little hard on Al?

[Al Doggity]

He's talking about you.

Further more it is not a blanket statement to affix credit or blame to the president for the state of the economy. There is plenty of evidence to support the claim that this administration is responsible in large part, if not in totality, for the state of the economy.

[Hedgehog]

Nothing of the sort, the argument is that you cannot presume a cause and effect in a blanket statement without further analysis or evidence.  Example, Jimmy Carter becomes president and within three years the Iranians take hostages.  Does that mean Carter created the crisis?  Maybe, but not necessarily.  There are certainly worldwide economic forces which are beyond the powers of our elected officials to prevent.  Some leaders happen to be in the right place, or the wrong place, at the right time.

When you look at the last 8 years, none of those have had a balanced budget.

A few years ago, 2003-2004, when the economy was going well, Bush could've opted to raise taxes and slash government subsidies in order to cool off the economy and make household's save more.

But instead he lowered the taxes, and introduced even more government programs.

Not to mention Bush decided that he needed to spend money on wars in different places.

So yes, I think it's quite easy to see that George W Bush, while not the only culprit, is the biggest culprit of this economic crisis.

He just didn't have a clue when he was in office IMO.

I remember back in a debate during the presidential race in 2000 how Bush was asked what he would do if there was an economic crisis.

His answer was that he would call Alan Greenspan and ask him what to do.

Unbelievable.

[Soul Crusher]

Moron - the crisis we have is a credit crisis. 

Too many people, including banks, government, financial institutions, and individuals, borrowed far too much and cant pay it back.

In fact, we had an asset bubble based solely on the availability of cheap credit.  Without access to credit, the car companies would not exist since people dont pay cash for cars, they get loans.

The same with the stupid prices for homes.  Without the access to cheap mortgage money that was thrown at anything with a heartbeat, the home prices would not have jumped the way they did.

Its no different with "higher education."  The only thing sustaining insane college costs is the access to cheap school loans. 

However, its over.  Its time to pay the bills and people cant borrow anymore because the banks are sitting with too many bad loans and bad debt. 

Blaming it on GWB is just stupid.  He helped the mess along no doubt, but this problem was building for a long long time.

   

[Al Doggity]

He helped the mess along no doubt,

QFT.

[Hedgehog]

Moron - the crisis we have is a credit crisis. 

Too many people, including banks, government, financial institutions, and individuals, borrowed far too much and cant pay it back.

In fact, we had an asset bubble based solely on the availability of cheap credit.  Without access to credit, the car companies would not exist since people dont pay cash for cars, they get loans.

The same with the stupid prices for homes.  Without the access to cheap mortgage money that was thrown at anything with a heartbeat, the home prices would not have jumped the way they did.

Its no different with "higher education."  The only thing sustaining insane college costs is the access to cheap school loans. 

However, its over.  Its time to pay the bills and people cant borrow anymore because the banks are sitting with too many bad loans and bad debt. 

Blaming it on GWB is just stupid.  He helped the mess along no doubt, but this problem was building for a long long time.

   

So you believe there were absolutely no political measures George W Bush could've taken to make the households save more money and loan less money?

[MidniteRambo]

So you believe there were absolutely no political measures George W Bush could've taken to make the households save more money and loan less money?

What is this "Nanny Government?"  My parents saved their money because you're supposed to save money.  Now, George W is supposed to be our Daddy, saying "Junior don't empty your piggy bank and spend it on candy because you want to buy a bike next summer."  Without intending, you have identified (or at least illustrated) the problem, if we don't have a society where people want to do the right thing, or have the right values, no government program will help. 

[Hedgehog]

What is this "Nanny Government?"  My parents saved their money because you're supposed to save money.  Now, George W is supposed to be our Daddy, saying now Junior don't empty your piggy banks and spend it on candy because you want to buy a bike next summer.  Now, you have identified the problem, if we don't have a society where people want to do the right thing, no government program will help.

It's not "Nanny Government".

It's been very much a laissez-faire government over the last eight years instead.

If the Fed rate is low, and taxes are cut during an economic boom, it will lead the housing market to expand like a gigantic bubble.

Because mortgages are affordable, and saving money in the bank is not a good deal, since the rate is so low.

I guess you can be all smart about it and write stuff about "Nanny government" and piggy banks, et al.
Trying to be funny.

But the fact is that we're in an economic situation.

I don't know if that is all that funny TBH.

[MidniteRambo]

QFT.

Brilliant political analysis Al.  Thanks for your contribution.

[MidniteRambo]

It's not "Nanny Government".

It's been very much a laissez-faire government over the last eight years instead.

If the Fed rate is low, and taxes are cut during an economic boom, it will lead the housing market to expand like a gigantic bubble.

Because mortgages are affordable, and saving money in the bank is not a good deal, since the rate is so low.

I guess you can be all smart about it and write stuff about "Nanny government" and piggy banks, et al.
Trying to be funny.

But the fact is that we're in an economic situation.

I don't know if that is all that funny TBH.

Hedge, I don't find the situation "funny" at all (although I appreciate your "smart" comment).  I just don't understand why it's the government's role to tell us not to borrow too much and live within our means, which seems to be one of your chief problems with the Pres.  It  used to be called common sense, now the government tells us not to let our kids drink too much soda at school, we are headed down the wrong path.

[Soul Crusher]

So you believe there were absolutely no political measures George W Bush could've taken to make the households save more money and loan less money?

You have no clue what the heck you are talking about.  GWB is not a dictator, despite your delusional fantasies.

People have freedom to spend their own money as they wish, unless you want a dictator not to allow them.  BTW - people pay 15% in ss taxes for "retirement" which was supposed to act as a forced retirement savings plan.

Banks made too many bad loans and should be allowed to fail.  The easy credit drove re prices too high for most people, which made it so that saving money was almost impossible when taxes, re costs, and living expenses are taken into account.

[Soul Crusher]

The govt was anything but laizee faire in this situation.  The government, both federal and states, actively promoted the banks giving out these loans because they reaped huge taxes off of this mess. 

The local governments loved this chaos because they were able to raise property taxes on everyone based upon higher appraisals.  They increased spending exponentially thinking this ponzi scheme would go on forever. 

The government created this mess as much as the banks and reckless borrowers, flippers, speculators, appraisers, mortgage brokers, all did.

[MidniteRambo]

The govt was anything but laizee faire in this situation.  The government, both federal and states, actively promoted the banks giving out these loans because they reaped huge taxes off of this mess. 

The local governments loved this chaos because they were able to raise property taxes on everyone based upon higher appraisals.  They increased spending exponentially thinking this ponzi scheme would go on forever. 

The government created this mess as much as the banks and reckless borrowers, flippers, speculators, appraisers, mortgage brokers, all did.

Excellent point, the libs profitted politically from a situation they helped create-- everyone must own a home regardless of credit-worthiness (OR FOR THAT MATTER, CITIZENSHIP).  Then, when it blows up, they scream "lack of regulation" ergo it's the fault of the conservatives.

[chaos]

There's a poll on approval ratings of Obama, and he's getting more and more popular by the minute.

Seems like the only ones disliking him are the gays and Rush Limbaugh at the moment.

The full article is here:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/12/24/obama.approval/index.html?iref=nextin

But instead of copy and pasteing the whole thing, here are the highlights:

Story Highlights
Poll: More than eight in 10 approve of how Barack Obama is handling transition

Obama has higher ratings than Bill Clinton or Ronald Reagan did at same time

Poll: Fifty-six percent say Obama's Cabinet picks are outstanding or above average

He's a beast for sure.

[Mons Venus]

Moron - the crisis we have is a credit crisis. 

Blaming it on GWB is just stupid. 
   

Damn right. Bush is an exceptional Leader/President!