Author Topic: Tom Cruise was right after all. Psychiatry is a mess  (Read 7030 times)

Necrosis

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 9902
Re: Tom Cruise was right after all. Psychiatry is a mess
« Reply #50 on: December 30, 2008, 09:28:06 PM »
I'm just trying to say that some doctors can be a little triggerhappy with subscriptions.

ya they buy to many magazines

flagadajones

  • Time Out
  • Getbig IV
  • *
  • Posts: 1553
Re: Tom Cruise was right after all. Psychiatry is a mess
« Reply #51 on: December 30, 2008, 11:41:43 PM »
psychiatrists are very important, cause when someone loses contact with reality, they are the ones who are here to explain it to him, and how to get back
on the track of Reality, with the help of the loved ones of course. Drugs may help also, but they are used under the supervision of a psychiatrist who has a plan on how to get you back in reality and how to make you understand what is real and what isnt.

Not everyone can do this, and some people dedicate their life to this task.

Of course they re not going to make their patient 's life perfect, they are no GOD, of course the patient may fail in his endeavour under their supervision or without, but they are not responsibles for that.

It's like saying a doctor is reponsible of a cancer that may develop in one of his patient's body.

Psychiatrists or doctors cant do miracles, but they can assist those who need help to improve their life, wether it's psychologically or physically.


Max_Rep

  • Max Rep
  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 3980
  • It’s about how hard you can GET hit...
Re: Tom Cruise was right after all. Psychiatry is a mess
« Reply #52 on: December 31, 2008, 12:24:25 AM »

Prozac and Depression


and keep moving!

The Master

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 13785
Re: Tom Cruise was right after all. Psychiatry is a mess
« Reply #53 on: December 31, 2008, 12:25:20 AM »
Prozac and Depression




Are you a member of the church of scientology, as you claimed to be in a post a long time ago?

timfogarty

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 7108
  • @fogartyTim on twitter
Re: Tom Cruise was right after all. Psychiatry is a mess
« Reply #54 on: December 31, 2008, 12:28:38 AM »
wether it's psychologically or physically.

a minor point:   psychological is often physical.  chemical imbalances in the brain are often the cause for depression, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, anxiety disorders, etc.   therapy can help you learn to live with the imbalances.   psychopharmaceuticals can help return brain chemistry to normal.  

auditing is just a way to separate vulnerable or gullible people from their money.

Soundness

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1550
  • "Shootin' the shit..."
Re: Tom Cruise was right after all. Psychiatry is a mess
« Reply #55 on: December 31, 2008, 12:39:42 AM »
a minor point:   psychological is often physical.  chemical imbalances in the brain are often the cause for depression, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, anxiety disorders, etc.   therapy can help you learn to live with the imbalances.   psychopharmaceuticals can help return brain chemistry to normal.  

auditing is just a way to separate vulnerable or gullible people from their money.
Contradiction.

Positive feelings can result from the process they refer to as "auditing," negative feelings can be erased, both of these literally affect the chemistry in the brain and therefore, as you so brilliantly pointed out, the individual will be physically (chemically) transformed as a result of "auditing."

timfogarty

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 7108
  • @fogartyTim on twitter
Re: Tom Cruise was right after all. Psychiatry is a mess
« Reply #56 on: December 31, 2008, 01:24:54 AM »
Positive feelings can result from the process they refer to as "auditing," negative feelings can be erased, both of these literally affect the chemistry in the brain and therefore, as you so brilliantly pointed out, the individual will be physically (chemically) transformed as a result of "auditing."

there is no scientific evidence to support these claims.  that organization that owns a few dozen of the buildings in my neighborhood is a dangerous cult.

The Master

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 13785
Re: Tom Cruise was right after all. Psychiatry is a mess
« Reply #57 on: December 31, 2008, 01:26:30 AM »
there is no scientific evidence to support these claims.  that organization that owns a few dozen of the buildings in my neighborhood is a dangerous cult.

Xenu has nothing on the Muslims when it comes to being dangerous.

Soundness

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1550
  • "Shootin' the shit..."
Re: Tom Cruise was right after all. Psychiatry is a mess
« Reply #58 on: December 31, 2008, 01:35:24 AM »
there is no scientific evidence to support these claims.  that organization that owns a few dozen of the buildings in my neighborhood is a dangerous cult.
Which claims?

Positive and negative feelings/thoughts/ideas do affect the chemistry in your brain.

What they call "auditing" would relieve negative feelings and induce positive feelings.

In fact, simply talking to someone about something does so. 

timfogarty

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 7108
  • @fogartyTim on twitter
Re: Tom Cruise was right after all. Psychiatry is a mess
« Reply #59 on: December 31, 2008, 01:39:05 AM »
Xenu has nothing on the Muslims when it comes to being dangerous.

think if the Catholic Church insisted that exorcism was a legitimate form of medical treatment for cancer, and that oncologists were evil,  and then made you pay a significant portion of your income to receive the exorcism.

The Master

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 13785
Re: Tom Cruise was right after all. Psychiatry is a mess
« Reply #60 on: December 31, 2008, 02:01:27 AM »
think if the Catholic Church insisted that exorcism was a legitimate form of medical treatment for cancer, and that oncologists were evil,  and then made you pay a significant portion of your income to receive the exorcism.

Get to the core of the issue. Muslims cause a lot more harm then the followers of Xenu.

Viking11

  • Competitors
  • Getbig IV
  • *****
  • Posts: 2002
Re: Tom Cruise was right after all. Psychiatry is a mess
« Reply #61 on: December 31, 2008, 02:26:07 AM »
He doesn't know what he's talking about. He's an actor, not an academic. Furthermore, he's a member of a fake religion- Scientology, started by a failed Science Fiction writer, L Ron Hubbard,  on a bet that he could "create a religion more popular than psychoanalysis".  Go make movies Tom.

nycbull

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5763
  • Team Jay Should Have Won
Re: Tom Cruise was right after all. Psychiatry is a mess
« Reply #62 on: December 31, 2008, 05:00:33 AM »
Contradiction.

Positive feelings can result from the process they refer to as "auditing," negative feelings can be erased, both of these literally affect the chemistry in the brain and therefore, as you so brilliantly pointed out, the individual will be physically (chemically) transformed as a result of "auditing."

Scientology does some good stuff for its members especially in the beginning thats how they get hooked. Its ironic cause Hubard says he doesnt believe in psychology but he uses commoon cognitive therapy exercises on new members.  The exercises are pretty basic and do work, but only temporarily, and thats the catch....because what Hubard does is, after a member has a cognitive break through, basically just some kind of epiphany about himself or life they feel good, this is where Hubbard turns it into a religion...He tells them that good feeling is the 'clear' and that you can get to a place where you will be in the 'clear' all the time but you have to stay and work with the church and pay money for more 'therapy'.  Its an amazing scam and works.....

Young people, especially ones that are lost in life, are very suseptible because the early congnitive exercises do help them but they are not prepared for the lie that follows.

suckmymuscle

  • Guest
Re: Tom Cruise was right after all. Psychiatry is a mess
« Reply #63 on: December 31, 2008, 06:50:12 AM »
ummmm... people with adhd have been tested using PET scans and have altered glucose metabolism. Imaging and NT bypoducts via urinalysis have shown predictable results as well.

disease is any dis---ease in the body, a dis harmony. Mental illness fit the criteria, if syndromes are diseases then so are mental illnesses.

etiology doesnt define disease.

  Yes, but it is society that has deemed the inability to concentrate a disease. I wonder how much you would need to concentrate on a single topic for hours if you were a warrior in the ancient world, or a Paleolithic hunter. It's just that, in the last couple centuries, education has become more and more important to success, and thus children are being required to sit still for hours and hours starring at a board or reading books, which is unnatural. The (many)children that are unable to perform this unnatural activity are deemed problematic, because the ability to concentrate for hours on a single topic is a trait that is so important for the child to get into the fancy college latter on and thus get the big job that pays a lot, and are thus put on medication. It is society and historical circumstance that makes the "disease". The murderer is a despicable "mentally ill"  killer if he kills inside his tribe/people, but he's a war hero if he kills the enemy's children during warfare. Teenage boys have a 4 times higher rate of ADHD than girls, all because of testosterone, which makes them more restless. According to medical science, the natural behavior of teenage boys is a "disease" that must be treated with drugs. The fact is that, for tens of thousands of years, teenage boys' aggressiveness was necessary for hunting and to protect their tribes from enemies, and the boy who was shy and bookish was the "diseased" one. Now the tables are turned. It makes sense from natural selection and tens of thousands of years of evolution for boys to not have the ability to concentrate and to be restless and run around; but now that behavior is not adaptive anymore due to the needs of modern Society, so the normal behavior is pathological.. This is terrible "science" and is one of the reasons people are do distrusting of medicine.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

Dredlock Rasta

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 601
  • Can't trust shadows after dark
Re: Tom Cruise was right after all. Psychiatry is a mess
« Reply #64 on: December 31, 2008, 06:55:17 AM »
I agree with what you've said here. But, I agree with Tom Szasz (the guy in the video) that Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder in particular is not a disease. It is not a "malfunction" of the brain, just a slightly different functioning brain. ADHD will be a productive phenomenon if we 1) allow those with it to follow their natural interests and 2) facilitate/feed those interests. If we do this, they will master what they are naturally interested in.

In fact, many children/people with ADHD actually show an increased ability to focus on something, relative to those who do not have ADHD. The catch is, they must be naturally interested in that something. But, if they are naturally interested in it, they will completely immerse themselves in it and master it. It is not a "disease" (a malfunction of the brain). Most of the others are.

"Normal" can be no more than opinion, and most of the time it simply means "what most other people are most content with."  :-\ If you're not acting in a way others consider to be acceptable for them, they will say you have something wrong with you. If it is naturally occuring and there is no physical (cellular) disability, there is not anything wrong with you. Again, there are many legitimate psychological disorders/diseases, but, attention deficit disorder in particular is not one.


http://www.amazon.com/Psychiatry-Science-Lies-Thomas-Szasz/dp/0815609108/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1230495522&sr=8-1

A lot of people are "naturally interested" in the wrong things.
Don't let em fool ya

TechnoViking

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4518
  • Too weird to live, too rare to die...----HST
Re: Tom Cruise was right after all. Psychiatry is a mess
« Reply #65 on: December 31, 2008, 04:03:17 PM »
Scientology does some good stuff for its members especially in the beginning thats how they get hooked. Its ironic cause Hubard says he doesnt believe in psychology but he uses commoon cognitive therapy exercises on new members.  The exercises are pretty basic and do work, but only temporarily, and thats the catch....because what Hubard does is, after a member has a cognitive break through, basically just some kind of epiphany about himself or life they feel good, this is where Hubbard turns it into a religion...He tells them that good feeling is the 'clear' and that you can get to a place where you will be in the 'clear' all the time but you have to stay and work with the church and pay money for more 'therapy'.  Its an amazing scam and works.....

Young people, especially ones that are lost in life, are very suseptible because the early congnitive exercises do help them but they are not prepared for the lie that follows.

I always thought that kids were never really ready for the lie that is Santa Claus...Esp/when its the only people in the world you are to trust in the parents who tell such a thing...

nycbull

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5763
  • Team Jay Should Have Won
Re: Tom Cruise was right after all. Psychiatry is a mess
« Reply #66 on: December 31, 2008, 04:10:41 PM »
I always thought that kids were never really ready for the lie that is Santa Claus...Esp/when its the only people in the world you are to trust in the parents who tell such a thing...

I guess, I dont think I ever completely believed the story...so I was disapponited somewhat, but not at my parents..I kinda understood that it was all in fun.


anyway Hubard was a genius he claimed he was against pyschiatry but used it to get rich.  He only called his pyscho-therapy a religion to get out of paying taxes.  brilliant.

also, when he died the autopsy reported he had anti-depressants in his system, something Scientologist are supposed to be against.  true.

wavelength

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 10156
  • ~~~
Re: Tom Cruise was right after all. Psychiatry is a mess
« Reply #67 on: December 31, 2008, 04:14:55 PM »
I have never seen an enlightened Scientologist.

TechnoViking

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4518
  • Too weird to live, too rare to die...----HST
Re: Tom Cruise was right after all. Psychiatry is a mess
« Reply #68 on: December 31, 2008, 04:15:52 PM »
I guess, I dont think I ever completely believed the story...so I was disapponited somewhat, but not at my parents..I kinda understood that it was all in fun.


anyway Hubard was a genius he claimed he was against pyschiatry but used it to get rich.  He only called his pyscho-therapy a religion to get out of paying taxes.  brilliant.

also, when he died the autopsy reported he had anti-depressants in his system, something Scientologist are supposed to be against.  true.

I was never disappointed but later on in life I thought to myself "what a fcked up thing to do to kids"...I've read some stories where it really fcked with young people and that they held on to it...The message I get from it is that you should never trust anyone fully...Including the parents... ;)

boonstack

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1521
  • watch out ladies... chaos is on the prowl
Re: Tom Cruise was right after all. Psychiatry is a mess
« Reply #69 on: December 31, 2008, 04:16:29 PM »
psychiatrists are very important, cause when someone loses contact with reality, they are the ones who are here to explain it to him, and how to get back
on the track of Reality, with the help of the loved ones of course. Drugs may help also, but they are used under the supervision of a psychiatrist who has a plan on how to get you back in reality and how to make you understand what is real and what isnt.

Not everyone can do this, and some people dedicate their life to this task.

Of course they re not going to make their patient 's life perfect, they are no GOD, of course the patient may fail in his endeavour under their supervision or without, but they are not responsibles for that.

It's like saying a doctor is reponsible of a cancer that may develop in one of his patient's body.

Psychiatrists or doctors cant do miracles, but they can assist those who need help to improve their life, wether it's psychologically or physically.



Drugs never help. They only mask the problem - never gets to the bottom of it. How many millions of kids are on legal speed (ritalin, adderall) across the U.S.? How many teens/adults are on stimulants, anti-depressants, sedatives, etc. just to function in society? These "drugs" are in no means good, ever.

1) "Mental illnesses," even severe ones, are relational (I'd say spiritual as well).  Psychiatry, by focusing almost exclusively on biology, is making itself increasingly irrelevant.
(2) Psychoactive substances provide at best, temporary relief, but always make things worse in the long run.  They make things worse directly (chemically) and indirectly by distracting from the real issues.
(3) All psychoactive substances have rebound and withdrawal-related problems.  "Relapse" rates, in general, during withdrawal from psychiatric drugs, are about 10 times higher than would be expected if the drug had never been taken.
(4) "All biopsychiatric treatments share a common mode of action -- the disruption of normal brain function

Psychiatrists are trained from day one to treat patients from a biological perspective. Psychololists cannot prescribe medication - and many go into that profession just for that very reason.

You check out any of the medication websites (lexapro, seroquel, abilify, lexapro, aderall, etc). Read the fucking side effects.
Do you realize what psychiatrists attempt to do by solving a problem?
1-you go to dr, tell him what your problems are.
2-he tells you you have a chemical imbalance
3-he tells you to take meds which well correct that imbalance. (BTW, most promising part is their is no way to measure the chemicals in the first place)

being fat is a disease
being unhappy is a disease
being nervous is a disease - everything is a disease, and they have a pill for it.


TechnoViking

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4518
  • Too weird to live, too rare to die...----HST
Re: Tom Cruise was right after all. Psychiatry is a mess
« Reply #70 on: December 31, 2008, 04:16:49 PM »
I guess, I dont think I ever completely believed the story...so I was disapponited somewhat, but not at my parents..I kinda understood that it was all in fun.


anyway Hubard was a genius he claimed he was against pyschiatry but used it to get rich.  He only called his pyscho-therapy a religion to get out of paying taxes.  brilliant.

also, when he died the autopsy reported he had anti-depressants in his system, something Scientologist are supposed to be against.  true.

Wasn't he also a raging alcoholic?

boonstack

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1521
  • watch out ladies... chaos is on the prowl
Re: Tom Cruise was right after all. Psychiatry is a mess
« Reply #71 on: December 31, 2008, 04:18:07 PM »
Mental illness has an extremely poor image.  It’s been called the last taboo.  Unfortunately those who suffer or have suffered from being diagnosed with a mental illness tend to be dragged down by this image.  Once you have been diagnosed or initially admitted to an institution for treatment, it is almost impossible to escape the stigmatization which automatically follows.  Nor is it only those on the outside of the caring professions who carry these prejudices.  Blind ignorance is also rife within psychiatry.  There is currently a research article which connects schizophrenia to the incidence of being cross-eyed or being born in a month with particularly intemperate weather.  It seems we have progressed little from when entrails were read in Ancient Rome to anticipate events.  The fact is no one has a clue about what causes schizophrenia, although as with most things these days a genetic cause is being sought, so far with little success.  The most widely held theory for nearly all kinds of mental illness is it is due to a chemical imbalance in the brain.
        I find this fascinating since no patient these days avoids the use of chemicals from first diagnosis, often till death.  So how do psychiatrists' determine that there is a chemical imbalance when the brains of mental patients have been bombarded with powerful chemicals from the beginning?  What is even more disturbing about this theory is that if the drugs themselves have caused this imbalance, is that not good reason for stopping them?
        Psychiatric drugs do not in any way cure the patient or even make him or her feel better.  The side effects are appalling.  They include the onset of neurological disorders.  They include diabetes due to weight gain and innumerable minor and not so minor discomforts.  It is seldom claimed that the drugs are therapeutic: They merely mask symptoms - symptoms which probably were less troubling than the effects of the drugs.  The drugs do this by crudely interfering with the normal chemical makeup of the brain, making thought processes difficult and sleep (or unconsciousness that appears to be sleep) hard to avoid.  Did you ever wonder why mental patients are like zombies?  Well, there’s your answer.  Psychiatric drugs are making them feel ill and cause them to see the world with only half a brain.  Drugs are the current historical sequel to long term institutionalization and chains - and lobotomy.  Basically psychiatry is a violent and intrusive way of controlling people who do not conform to other people's expectations - or those who are vulnerable.  Remember that treatment is not voluntary once force is used.  Mental patients do not have meaningful civil rights.  In the UK, often they are not even allowed to vote.  In "hospitals," "medication" is routinely administered by force if the patient refuses or is "non-compliant".  Mental patients have no right to privacy even when living in the community: "Health" workers may go round neighbors asking about the "patient's" behavior, among other ploys.  Medication is usually administered for a lifetime.  There is no way anyone ever gets ‘better’ on psychiatric drugs.  Being ‘mentally ill’ is a social status, not a medical condition.  And the hospitals are merely prisons.
        Why has psychiatry not been abandoned, since it is based on overt ignorance and involves obvious abuse?  Why does the myth of mental illness persist?
        Of course, we all suffer from time to time - usually depression resulting from life experience.  There are various strategies which can be used to lift ones spirits and improve one’s health.  They include exercise and diet.  However the idea of the mentally ill as a category of persons distinct from the rest of the human race continues.  I think this happens partly because of vested interests: The companies that market the drugs, which are the current treatment, make vast profits exceeded only by share prices for Internet companies.  It is in the interest of these drug companies and their shareholders, which include many doctors, that psychiatry widen its net, constantly bringing more and more people into the sphere of those who are forced to ingest psychiatric drugs for the rest of their lives.  Their motives and their lack of a sense of social responsibility are like those of the tobacco companies.
        A drug has recently been developed which makes people less shy.  Suddenly a new illness, a new diagnosis, was created to make use of this drug: "social phobia." Now people are being diagnosed with this and - surprise! surprise! - are prescribed this new drug.  The need to sell this drug and make a profit actually created the diagnosis!  Tobacco companies do not need to force their customers to smoke since tobacco is highly addictive.  Most people find psychiatric drugs almost intolerable.  So drug advocates create such fear and paranoia concerning mentally ill people (who are statistically considerably less dangerous to others than the general population) that a hysterical policy of containment and pharmacological control of mental patients is adopted and enforced.
        Some researchers search for the causes of mental illness, particularly schizophrenia, ad infinitum.  Science is no where nearer to understanding it than when it was first defined.  Based on considerable experience and with great confidence, I argue that the whole course of this "illness" is created by the way it is "treated."  It is the confinement, the stigmatization, the ignorance, the physical and emotional abuse, the drugs, the prejudice of employers and consequent poverty, and the overbearing attitude of psychiatrists and others that cause this "illness." For most people, mental illness has a career path from which there is no escape.  There is a vast industry profiting financially from the abject misery of mental patients whose problems are exacerbated by an effort to create hysteria, thereby making them outcasts.  This makes sense of the otherwise cruel and senseless profession of psychiatry.  The mentally ill are an essential part of what supports a very profitable psychiatric drug manufacturing industry.  And psychiatry maintains the status quo by drugging into oblivion those who challenge it.
        I’m not saying there are not vulnerable individuals, individuals with problems, and unhappy people - even people who are not healthy.  But I am saying that conventional western psychiatry does not even attempt to cure them but simply to contain them and perpetuate them as "patients." Secondly, western psychiatry often creates problems, such as in the case of schizophrenia, where there were none before, by its attitude and it's "treatment."  The widening grip of psychiatry also has been at the expense of less intrusive, more friendly and wholesome approaches to helping mentally or emotionally troubled people.  What might be a temporary problem due to some minor upset or even a mistaken diagnosis, psychiatry can and usually does convert into a dramatic condition which requires a lifetime of treatment.  This damages the individual to the core of his being.  The mentally ill are not more dangerous than anyone else despite the way they are mistreated.  Paranoid schizophrenia is a logical response to psychiatric treatment and not the result of some unfortunate genetic modification.  Any fool should be able to understand this, but try explaining it to a psychiatrist!  It makes more sense to them what the temperature was outside when you were born.  Who is mad here - psychiatry's patients or its defenders?

Soundness

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1550
  • "Shootin' the shit..."
Re: Tom Cruise was right after all. Psychiatry is a mess
« Reply #72 on: December 31, 2008, 04:20:18 PM »
I was never disappointed but later on in life I thought to myself "what a fcked up thing to do to kids"...I've read some stories where it really fcked with young people and that they held on to it...The message I get from it is that you should never trust anyone fully...Including the parents... ;)
TechnoViking,

This is interesting enough I've started a thread on it in the Religous Debates forum.:
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=255067.0

I was wondering about this Christmas eve. I had the feeling it was wrong to base such holiday on a lie.

nycbull

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5763
  • Team Jay Should Have Won
Re: Tom Cruise was right after all. Psychiatry is a mess
« Reply #73 on: December 31, 2008, 04:21:09 PM »
Wasn't he also a raging alcoholic?

yea I think so, there are a lot of cool sites out there that expose what goes on in Scientology....the internet has definitely hurt that religion, thats why Tom started talking about it more in the last few years, but after his publicist left him over it, I think he realized he should stop.

timfogarty

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 7108
  • @fogartyTim on twitter
Re: Tom Cruise was right after all. Psychiatry is a mess
« Reply #74 on: December 31, 2008, 05:22:48 PM »
standard scientology bs

you really have no idea what mental institutions were like before the advent of modern drugs.   today millions of people live relatively normal productive lives because they're able to manage their medical condition with psych meds.   sure, way too many people with minor problems take meds when they could do without.  but many more are able to stay out of mental institutions and stay out of the prison system because of the meds.     it is likely that you have coworkers who are able to continue to be productive because of psych meds.   because the meds work, you'll never know they're dealing with a mental illness.   even those with more severe mental diseases are able to be cared for by family members because of the meds.  without the meds, these people would be too much for their families and would end up in an institution.   psychiatrists do their best to keep people with mental illnesses out of institutions.