Author Topic: Is there other life in the universe?  (Read 8932 times)

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Re: Is there other life in the universe?
« Reply #50 on: January 02, 2009, 06:08:57 AM »
Yikes!

According to that video, our Sun is one of five hundred thousand million stars in our galaxy. 

We all know that we are in the Milky Way galaxy, right?  Perhaps some of you have heard of the Andromeda galaxy; it is the spiral galaxy nearest to the Milky Way.  Well there are millions and millions of other galaxies out there!

Actually billions, and that's what we know of so far. We also now know planets are very common and over 100 found so far outside our solar system. The math/odds that there is not life on other planets approaches zero real fast when you are working with those types of numbers. Whether or not any of them have visited us, is a totally different issue.

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Re: YES
« Reply #51 on: January 02, 2009, 06:32:07 AM »
.does a falling tree make a sound in the forest when no one is there to hear it??..

Yes, yes it does. No human needed for sound to take place. It's that type of ignorant human-centric thinking that has held humanity back all through history. Galileo spent the last years of his life under house arrest on orders of the Roman Inquisition for proving the earth revolves around the sun vs the opinion of the time that everything revolved around the earth, because it is the tendency of human beings to assume everything revolves around them.

If you don't know anything about cosmology, physics, the numbers being worked with, etc., then your opinion on the potential for life on other planets os just the usual human-centric rambling which rejects what it does not understand. The tree in the woods comment exposes total self absorbed human centric thinking.

The simple numbers at this point, with the recent discover planets are indeed very common, makes it improbable  life on other planets, of various kinds, does not exist. Even the most conservative scientists will admit that. We are in fact situated in a fairly young area of the universe. Imagine a civilization that had a million years or so head start on us. Their understanding of physics, etc, would make us look like monkeys at best.

Traveling long distances between stars will never be about speed. It will probably take a completely different understanding of physics, perhaps a new physics yet undiscovered, or just now being explored, such as multi-verse, various dimensions, singularities, etc. All very theoretical right now, and we may not exist long enough to ever discover such things in a practical sense, but that does not mean others have not, if "others" exist and have for millions of years longer then ourselves, who only recently walked out of our caves, which was not even a blink of an eye ago in the grand scheme of things.

We are not an old species, not even by earth standards. Humility goes a long way here... ;)

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Re: YES
« Reply #52 on: January 02, 2009, 06:42:27 AM »

Traveling long distances between stars will never be about speed. It will probably take a completely different understanding of physics, perhaps a new physics yet undiscovered, or just now being explored, such as multi-verse, various dimensions, singularities, etc. All very theoretical right now, and we may not exist long enough to ever discover such things in a practical sense, but that does not mean others have not, if "others" exist and have for millions of years longer then ourselves, who only recently walked out of our caves, which was not even a blink of an eye ago in the grand scheme of things.

Exactly.  i love it when simpletons are limiting potential advanced civilizations' ability to travel to only our understanding of technology and physics.  Aliens probably laugh at our "we can only go as fast as the speed of light" rule.

:D


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Re: YES
« Reply #53 on: January 02, 2009, 06:42:53 AM »
Yes, yes it does. No human needed for sound to take place. It's that type of ignorant human-centric thinking that has held humanity back all through history. Galileo spent the last years of his life under house arrest on orders of the Roman Inquisition for proving the earth revolves around the sun vs the opinion of the time that everything revolved around the earth, because it is the tendency of human beings to assume everything revolves around them.

If you don't know anything about cosmology, physics, the numbers being worked with, etc., then your opinion on the potential for life on other planets os just the usual human-centric rambling which rejects what it does not understand. The tree in the woods comment exposes total self absorbed human centric thinking.

The simple numbers at this point, with the recent discover planets are indeed very common, makes it improbable  life on other planets, of various kinds, does not exist. Even the most conservative scientists will admit that. We are in fact situated in a fairly young area of the universe. Imagine a civilization that had a million years or so head start on us. Their understanding of physics, etc, would make us look like monkeys at best.

Traveling long distances between stars will never be about speed. It will probably take a completely different understanding of physics, perhaps a new physics yet undiscovered, or just now being explored, such as multi-verse, various dimensions, singularities, etc. All very theoretical right now, and we may not exist long enough to ever discover such things in a practical sense, but that does not mean others have not, if "others" exist and have for millions of years longer then ourselves, who only recently walked out of our caves, which was not even a blink of an eye ago in the grand scheme of things.

We are not an old species, not even by earth standards. Humility goes a long way here... ;)

Excellent post.

You could compare Galileo to Copernicus in that he was in fear of his life when he realized Aristotle and Ptolemy's universe was indeed wrong based on his studies. I can very much appreciate those two as I appreciate folks today like Kaku, Hawking, DeGrasse Tyson, etc.

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Re: Is there other life in the universe?
« Reply #54 on: January 02, 2009, 06:49:05 AM »
>our Sun is one of five hundred thousand million stars in our galaxy.

How does one write out that number?

500 five hundred
500,000 five hundred thousand
500,000,000 five hundred million
500,000,000,000 five hundred billion
500,000,000,000,000 five hundred trillion
500,000,000,000,000,000 five hundred quadrillion
500,000,000,000,000,000,000 five hundred quintillion
500,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 five hundred sextillion
500,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 five hundred septillion
500,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 five hundred octillion
500,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,five hundred nonillion

Do I have that right?  That’s as high as I can go; math was never my subject. :(

How does one write out five hundred thousand million?  My guess would be 500,000,000,000,000.  Is that right?  Does five hundred thousand million = five hundred trillion? ???

Suddenly, I feel so small.  :'(

(then I look at my peter and I feel big again)  ;D

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Re: YES
« Reply #55 on: January 02, 2009, 08:53:51 AM »
Yes, yes it does. No human needed for sound to take place. It's that type of ignorant human-centric thinking that has held humanity back all through history. Galileo spent the last years of his life under house arrest on orders of the Roman Inquisition for proving the earth revolves around the sun vs the opinion of the time that everything revolved around the earth, because it is the tendency of human beings to assume everything revolves around them.

If you don't know anything about cosmology, physics, the numbers being worked with, etc., then your opinion on the potential for life on other planets os just the usual human-centric rambling which rejects what it does not understand. The tree in the woods comment exposes total self absorbed human centric thinking.

The simple numbers at this point, with the recent discover planets are indeed very common, makes it improbable  life on other planets, of various kinds, does not exist. Even the most conservative scientists will admit that. We are in fact situated in a fairly young area of the universe. Imagine a civilization that had a million years or so head start on us. Their understanding of physics, etc, would make us look like monkeys at best.

Traveling long distances between stars will never be about speed. It will probably take a completely different understanding of physics, perhaps a new physics yet undiscovered, or just now being explored, such as multi-verse, various dimensions, singularities, etc. All very theoretical right now, and we may not exist long enough to ever discover such things in a practical sense, but that does not mean others have not, if "others" exist and have for millions of years longer then ourselves, who only recently walked out of our caves, which was not even a blink of an eye ago in the grand scheme of things.

We are not an old species, not even by earth standards. Humility goes a long way here... ;)

Very good post I will admit...BUT..despite your high -minded scientic words of wisdom it's all STILL hypothetical and we are back to square one.....my theory is just as good as yours until we all see proof.....and there is none and probably never will be......and also..I DID say there could be life...plants....crawly things..bacteria..etc... ..I just don't believe no how no way that there are advanced civilizations out there running around the cosmos...sorry....we cannot break the speed of light...it ain't happening..and again..if we did, with what fuel source and with what kind of craft that won't shake apart???

hope this helps.

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Re: YES
« Reply #56 on: January 02, 2009, 09:29:04 AM »
Very good post I will admit...BUT..despite your high -minded scientic words of wisdom it's all STILL hypothetical

What is? That trees falling make noise regardless of there being a person to hear it, or that the simple numbers we are talking about makes the probability of their not being life on other planets close to zero? Neither of those hypothetical.

are and we are back to square one.....my theory is just as good as yours until we all see proof.

You don't present a theory, you made (incorrect) statements of opinion. You did not counter anything I said with any counter theory other then to express the opinion you don't think, in spite of the numbers, there is life on other planets. In scientific terms, most people don't actually understand what the term theory really means and how to use it correctly in a sentence

....and there is none and probably never will be...

 It's impossible to know the future, only the trends/directions science is trying to follow, and there is no reason to believe, given the amazing advances in technology, some proof of life elsewhere may happen in our life time, or it may never happen. No one can say, but a typical human-centric position is to assume because we can't show it (due to the limitations of our current technology) it has any effects on the creatures looking back at us!  ;D

...and also..I DID say there could be life...plants....crawly things..bacteria..etc... ..I just don't believe no how no way that there are advanced civilizations out there running around the cosmos...sorry.

Nothing to be sorry about. You don't "believe" there is based on anything in particular, and I "believe" the probability says there is based on the shear numbers being worked with.

...we cannot break the speed of light...it ain't happening..and again..if we did, with what fuel source and with what kind of craft that won't shake apart???

Already stated, speed of light will never be part of the solution in terms of any real star to star travel, unless you were to either (1) find a way to put people in stasis or (2) built huge arc ships that could sustain a population for very long periods of time. Both are within our technological abilities.

There are various avenues always under investigation,  that is indeed theoretical at this time, and will remain so for a long time, unless some breakthrough were to happen, which is also possible. Science tends to have big breakthroughs in fits and starts, it's never been a linear thing.

hope this helps.

How could it? ::)

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Re: YES
« Reply #57 on: January 02, 2009, 11:29:50 AM »
Very good post I will admit...BUT..despite your high -minded scientic words of wisdom it's all STILL hypothetical and we are back to square one.....my theory is just as good as yours until we all see proof.....and there is none and probably never will be......and also..I DID say there could be life...plants....crawly things..bacteria..etc... ..I just don't believe no how no way that there are advanced civilizations out there running around the cosmos...sorry....we cannot break the speed of light...it ain't happening..and again..if we did, with what fuel source and with what kind of craft that won't shake apart???

hope this helps.

you don't BELIEVE no how no way there are other civilizations out there.until we all see proof....dude I hope your not a religious man.Your sounding ignorant enough as it is.
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Re: YES
« Reply #58 on: January 02, 2009, 09:32:11 PM »
Aliens probably laugh at our "we can only go as fast as the speed of light" rule.

Its not a "rule" - it's a mathematical proposition, which so far it has been impossible to refute...mathematically, at least

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Re: YES
« Reply #59 on: January 02, 2009, 09:51:46 PM »


you know, I'm happy you responded to this post because it shows how we agree rather than disagree.....we are actually closer in agreement than you might think..it's just semanticcs that separate us


What is? That trees falling make noise regardless of there being a person to hear it, or that the simple numbers we are talking about makes the probability of their not being life on other planets close to zero? Neither of those hypothetical.


in this regard again my theory is as good as yours.....you only say a little bit more than I do...you say there is the PROBABILITY that there is life on other planets based on the sheer number of planets...again you offer a mathematical theory of probability to suggest the possibility of life...but probability is just that...a theory...to try to predict that something COULD occur..not that it will or has..it just projects the chance of that happening....your theory is not the CONCRETE PROOF you are trying to make it out to be..I could use the theory of probability as well to refute your claim, but it would take up too much time here



You don't present a theory, you made (incorrect) statements of opinion. You did not counter anything I said with any counter theory other then to express the opinion you don't think, in spite of the numbers, there is life on other planets. In scientific terms, most people don't actually understand what the term theory really means and how to use it correctly in a sentence


to reiterate, you didn';t exactly come up with a theory yourself..just used mathematical probability....which again I could use as well...you still present no scientific evidence

 

It's impossible to know the future, only the trends/directions science is trying to follow, and there is no reason to believe, given the amazing advances in technology, some proof of life elsewhere may happen in our life time, or it may never happen. No one can say, but a typical human-centric position is to assume because we can't show it (due to the limitations of our current technology) it has any effects on the creatures looking back at us!  ;D


good point..and true......but you are basically agreeing with me here....I've said it's impossible to know the future and what our future technological advances will be...we sometimes as humans tend to be really optimistic and we overreach what we think our capabilities will be....remember we were supposed to have flying cars by now??...cars that would drive themselves??..we were supposed to have colonized the moon by now remember??? we learned all this growing up..we were supposed to be living in a utopia by the year 2000..all of that never happened and is no where near happening...advances in technology can be much much slower than we think..you are talking as if all these wonderful spce travel breakthroughs are right around the corner.....they aren't..sorry


Nothing to be sorry about. You don't "believe" there is based on anything in particular, and I "believe" the probability says there is based on the shear numbers being worked with.


there's your "probability" theory again..is this all you have??..still no solid evidence


Already stated, speed of light will never be part of the solution in terms of any real star to star travel, unless you were to either (1) find a way to put people in stasis or (2) built huge arc ships that could sustain a population for very long periods of time. Both are within our technological abilities.


again we agree here!..speed of light will never be part of the solutuion..we said the same thing...puting people in stasis is not possible and is difficult to achieve since we haven't found a way to reanimate someone we have frozen....and the trip in stasis would last maybe hundreds if not thousands of years.....who is going to maintain the equipment for that long???..robots?..yeah right!!!..and building these huge arc ships that you talk about would cost an arm and leg and we don't have the technology to do this and won't for a very long time....


There are various avenues always under investigation,  that is indeed theoretical at this time, and will remain so for a long time, unless some breakthrough were to happen, which is also possible. Science tends to have big breakthroughs in fits and starts, it's never been a linear thing.


these big breakthroughs you talk about cost a lot of money in terms of research and implementation.....we are talking trillions upon trillions....and we don't even know where to go.....in which direction do we point ourselves???..we will embark on a vast unknown trip to nowhere and get WHAT out of it?

How could it? ::)

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Re: YES
« Reply #60 on: January 02, 2009, 09:59:33 PM »
No I don't.....too complicated...too expensive... and nothing can come out of it so therefore the population won't except us pouring trillions of dollars into a sinkhole not knowing what we will get from it and not while so many problems exist on earth that need to be addressed......

What about a society that doesn't use or need a monetary system? And only has  one purpose to live which is to explore space and set up shop on as many planets as possible until our brains evolve into something much bigger then we can ever imagine in the future...

Because if we can't reach a point in life where the above becomes reality, just how much bigger can a man's house become? and how much nicer can his car be?

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Re: YES
« Reply #61 on: January 03, 2009, 06:46:31 AM »


Because you failed to correctly quote me correctly and your response was one giant box above, I had to do it as follows:




"in this regard again my theory is as good as yours."


No it's not. One relies on the actual data/facts as they exist to support the theory (really a hypothesis BTW), one relies on "I believe" based on nothing. If you can't see the difference, then you really have no business being in such a conversation. "I don't believe" is not a theory, when it's not supported by anything.


"to reiterate, you didn';t exactly come up with a theory yourself..just used mathematical probability."

Actually I do, and many a hypothesis is based on mathematical probability. It's the strength of that probability model that gives it power or not. What do you think Einstein's theories were/are based on until some were physically supported, while others are still only in the mathematical model.

"...which again I could use as well..."


Go right ahead. Use mathematical probability to show that  life on other planets is unlikely when there are over 100 billion stars in our galaxy, 300 billion (known) galaxies, hundreds of plants already discovered, etc, etc. Even if you plug the most pessimistic numbers into the Drake equation, you comes up with an astounding number of civilizations.

" still present no scientific evidence"

See above. Are you actually paying attention here? The issue is, the strength of that evidence, but only you have supplied none.

 
"advances in technology can be much much slower than we think..you are talking as if all these wonderful spce travel breakthroughs are right around the corner....."

I don't recall making any comments about anything being around the corner, though as stated, breakthroughs come in fits and starts vs linear.

"there's your "probability" theory again..is this all you have??..still no solid evidence"

Vs. yours which to date, totals "I don't believe"  supported by exactly nothing. Who has the stronger hypothesis here? I do. Depending on the strength of the probability, it can be close to 100%. The probability of you being injured from jumping off a 30 story building is damn close to 100%, etc. Probability states nothing can be 100%, as there is a 0.0000000000000000000000 1% chance you might land on a hot air balloon that just happened to be passing by at that very moment, and so on.


"...puting people in stasis is not possible and is difficult to achieve since we haven't found a way to reanimate someone we have frozen."

All true, but not at all outside our future technological/,medical technology. I know the people doing that work for example, and they have brought higher animals (dogs, etc) back to life after several days at this point.

"...and the trip in stasis would last maybe hundreds if not thousands of years.....who is going to maintain the equipment for that long???..robots?..yeah right!!!..and building these huge arc ships that you talk about would cost an arm and leg and we don't have the technology to do this and won't for a very long time...."

Not actually relavent to the conversation. Costs, the will of people, etc, is another issue.

"these big breakthroughs you talk about cost a lot of money in terms of research and implementation.....we are talking trillions upon trillions....and we don't even know where to go.....in which direction do we point ourselves???..we will embark on a vast unknown trip to nowhere and get WHAT out of it?"

What do you think? It is the human condition that we need to explore and learn, and know what's out there. Why people jumped into ships, thinking the world was flat, having no idea where they would land, but off they went...


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Re: YES
« Reply #62 on: January 03, 2009, 09:42:24 AM »
Its not a "rule" - it's a mathematical proposition, which so far it has been impossible to refute...mathematically, at least

ok let's not argue semantics here, you know what i mean   ;)

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Re: YES
« Reply #63 on: January 03, 2009, 09:58:30 PM »
ok let's not argue semantics here, you know what i mean   ;)

Its actually interesting that you mentioned it.

Mathematically, there is a proof that on can't travel at the speed of light. But even though it is mathematically impossible, still doesn't make it impossible in absolute sense.

Light is matter and light can travel at the speed of light. So, why can't other matter do the same?

;)


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Re: Is there other life in the universe?
« Reply #64 on: January 03, 2009, 10:17:32 PM »
This video right here will tell you everything you need to know about what is out there or anywhere for that matter...

Perception: The Reality Beyond Matter




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Re: Is there other life in the universe?
« Reply #65 on: January 04, 2009, 10:28:58 AM »
there is a good possibility that the universe is a lot older than the estimated 14 billion light years, so considering that info, it seems silly to think that there is no other life form in the universe (intelligent or otherwise).

this is my favorite video on youtube. i watch this about twice a month or so, just to remind myself how small we really are.


 What I want to know is what is the name of that song that that kid is gettin down to?  That's a damn good song!

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Re: Is there other life in the universe?
« Reply #66 on: January 04, 2009, 02:33:55 PM »
>our Sun is one of five hundred thousand million stars in our galaxy.

How does one write out that number?

500 five hundred
500,000 five hundred thousand
500,000,000 five hundred million
500,000,000,000 five hundred billion
500,000,000,000,000 five hundred trillion
500,000,000,000,000,000 five hundred quadrillion
500,000,000,000,000,000,000 five hundred quintillion
500,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 five hundred sextillion
500,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 five hundred septillion
500,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 five hundred octillion
500,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,five hundred nonillion

Do I have that right?  That’s as high as I can go; math was never my subject. :(

How does one write out five hundred thousand million?  My guess would be 500,000,000,000,000.  Is that right?  Does five hundred thousand million = five hundred trillion? ???

Suddenly, I feel so small.  :'(

(then I look at my peter and I feel big again)  ;D

I thought he meant half billion when he said that  :)
Money drugs and bitches

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Re: Is there other life in the universe?
« Reply #67 on: January 04, 2009, 07:11:27 PM »
I thought he meant half billion when he said that  :)

Huh?  Why?   ???

The otherwise lucid narrator certainly chose an awkward phrase when he delivered that number, but "five hundred thousand million" does not equal half a billion. 

five hundred million = half a billion

five hundred thousand million = five hundred trillion

right?

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Re: Is there other life in the universe?
« Reply #68 on: January 04, 2009, 07:23:30 PM »
Huh?  Why?   ???

The otherwise lucid narrator certainly chose an awkward phrase when he delivered that number, but "five hundred thousand million" does not equal half a billion. 

five hundred million = half a billion

five hundred thousand million = five hundred trillion

right?

Yea i guess i heard five hundred million that sounds allot to
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BayGBM

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Re: Is there other life in the universe?
« Reply #69 on: January 05, 2009, 04:51:03 AM »
Perhaps he misspoke and meant to say "five hundred million"?  Either way we're talking about a lot of stars (and potential planets)!  And that is just in our galaxy!!  There are millions of other galaxies!!!

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Re: Is there other life in the universe?
« Reply #70 on: January 05, 2009, 05:36:45 PM »
Perhaps he misspoke and meant to say "five hundred million"?  Either way we're talking about a lot of stars (and potential planets)!  And that is just in our galaxy!!  There are millions of other galaxies!!!

Speaking of 5 hundred million  :-\






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Re: Is there other life in the universe?
« Reply #71 on: July 30, 2009, 10:02:15 AM »
do you guys think we will ever get our shit together enough to colonize mars?

Yes.  But not in our lifetimes.  Have you seen any good Mars movies lately?

Red Planet (2000) was pretty lame but


Mission to Mars (2000)--at least the last half hour--was cool.   :)

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Re: Is there other life in the universe?
« Reply #72 on: July 31, 2009, 04:27:55 PM »
so mason's worship satan huh. :-\

Prove me wrong  :-\
carpe` vaginum!

ToxicAvenger

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Re: Is there other life in the universe?
« Reply #73 on: July 31, 2009, 04:29:21 PM »
String theory...good vid

http://www.guba.com/watch/3000110061
carpe` vaginum!

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Re: YES
« Reply #74 on: July 31, 2009, 04:43:46 PM »


Traveling long distances between stars will never be about speed. It will probably take a completely different understanding of physics, perhaps a new physics yet undiscovered, or just now being explored, such as multi-verse, various dimensions, singularities, etc. All very theoretical right now, and we may not exist long enough to ever discover such things in a practical sense, but that does not mean others have not, if "others" exist and have for millions of years longer then ourselves, who only recently walked out of our caves, which was not even a blink of an eye ago in the grand scheme of things.

We are not an old species, not even by earth standards. Humility goes a long way here... ;)
Photons (massless particles) are supposed to be able to travel between universes (brane theory)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Membrane_(M-Theory)

watch the vid i posted.... elegant universe

as far as faster than light travel...instantaneous change in the behaviour in one particle when itas twin particle is changed has already been observed...(the carrier particle..which transmits such a change has not)

in anycase...interesting vid below

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2532550347256411920&ei=AoFzSt3cN8jglQeWuoRv&q=phileldephia+experiment
carpe` vaginum!