is golf a sport?

[ATHEIST]

alright in the hopes of not creating novel sized post i wont quote everything

Ive had this arguement so many times its retarded the same thing with golf being a sport

Define athlete for me i mean what your definition is of an athlete...dollars to donuts some of the ppl you think of as athletes wouldnt be considered athletes by your definition...and we will go back to the original definition of athlete.

my point was that if you dont consider john daly a athlete then you cant consider big pappi an athlete.

my firm stance is that golf maybe a sport but i dont consider golfers athletes.

  since youre using the term athlete in a very liberal sense you may have an argument. but placing an elite golfer in the company of the Bruce Jenners, M. Westbrooks, Allen Iversons and Tony Gwyns of the world is a travesty.
  A golfer may perform on the same level of dominance as the great athletes like Ali,Bird, Jordan, Montana and Elways but i would not consider him to be in the same athletic category.
  
  the term athlete is subjective and goes far beyond your "Websters definition" of an athlete.
I do consider Pappi an athlete and not Daly or Mickleson. Tiger.. who knows ive never seen him do anything i would consider truly athletic, is he a dominant competitor..absolutely.
 
  and i'll repost this for you, if you care to answer By your accepted definition bowlers, members of a marching band and bodybuilders are athletes then correct? they ALL fall under the criteria you accept.

  

  

[OzmO]

People claim it doesn't really require any athletic ability.

I can agree with this, sort of. My grandfather is 86 and plays golf a couple of times a week.....

Neither does pushing people around and running with a ball.  However to play football as well as golf at the professional level takes athletic ability.  

[ATHEIST]

Neither does pushing people around and running with a ball.  However to play football as well as golf at the professional level takes athletic ability.  

so people who play football on a high school level are not athletes?

[OzmO]

my firm stance is that golf maybe a sport but i dont consider golfers athletes.

  since youre using the term athlete in a very liberal sense you may have an argument. but placing an elite golfer in the company of the Bruce Jenners, M. Westbrooks, Allen Iversons and Tony Gwyns of the world is a travesty.
  A golfer may perform on the same level of dominance as the great athletes like Ali,Bird, Jordan, Montana and Elways but i would not consider him to be in the same athletic category.
  
  the term athlete is subjective and goes far beyond your "Websters definition" of an athlete.
I do consider Pappi an athlete and not Daly or Mickleson. Tiger.. who knows ive never seen him do anything i would consider truly athletic, is he a dominant competitor..absolutely.
 
  and i'll repost this for you, if you care to answer By your accepted definition bowlers, members of a marching band and bodybuilders are athletes then correct? they ALL fall under the criteria you accept.

  

  

Bowlers, yes.  Marching band takes an ability for being a musician, so no.  Body building being an athletic sport is debatable.

Golfers/bowlers are just a different type of athlete.  Therr profession takes speed, timing, and coordination.  While other sports take those i mentioned and brute force and strength.  

[OzmO]

so people who play football on a high school level are not athletes?

No not saying that at all.  My point is, your grandfather could catch a football right?  So by the logic you used to say that golf isn't a sport because your grandfather plays it can be applied to football because he could catch one and throw one. 

[tonymctones]

my firm stance is that golf maybe a sport but i dont consider golfers athletes.

  since youre using the term athlete in a very liberal sense you may have an argument. but placing an elite golfer in the company of the Bruce Jenners, M. Westbrooks, Allen Iversons and Tony Gwyns of the world is a travesty.
  A golfer may perform on the same level of dominance as the great athletes like Ali,Bird, Jordan, Montana and Elways but i would not consider him to be in the same athletic category.
  
  the term athlete is subjective and goes far beyond your "Websters definition" of an athlete.
I do consider Pappi an athlete and not Daly or Mickleson. Tiger.. who knows ive never seen him do anything i would consider truly athletic, is he a dominant competitor..absolutely.
 
  and i'll repost this for you, if you care to answer By your accepted definition bowlers, members of a marching band and bodybuilders are athletes then correct? they ALL fall under the criteria you accept.

No where in here did you answer me to what you believe the definition of an athlete is. only that you consider some to be athletes and others not to be, i understand that some ppl have more athletic ability than others but that doesnt mean the other who have less arent athletes by the way you have explained it. So again plz subjectively define athlete for me again dollars to donuts you will exclude some of the ppl you believe are athletes and include some who you think arent.  

[webcake]

Neither does pushing people around and running with a ball.  However to play football as well as golf at the professional level takes athletic ability.  

I don't see any 80 year olds playing football.

Playing football at a highschool level requires more athletic ability than Golf does at the highest level.

[OzmO]

I don't see any 80 year olds playing football.

Playing football at a highschool level requires more athletic ability than Golf does at the highest level.

But they are different sports.  80 year olds could play football, but the hospitals couldn't keep up.  But as for the timing speed and coordination aspects of football they could do it like they do golf.

So that might lead us to the question:  Does the definition of an activity being a sport require a degree of brute force and strength?

I personally think, Football is "more" of a sport than golf and Basket ball is "more" of a sport than football.

[ATHEIST]

No where in here did you answer me to what you believe the definition of an athlete is. only that you consider some to be athletes and others not to be, i understand that some ppl have more athletic ability than others but that doesnt mean the other who have less arent athletes by the way you have explained it. So again plz subjectively define athlete for me again dollars to donuts you will exclude some of the ppl you believe are athletes and include some who you think arent.  

i think i get the gist of what you are trying to say. please dont play the "i wont answer you question until you answer mine" because i asked you

By your accepted definition bowlers, members of a marching band and bodybuilders are athletes then correct? they ALL fall under the criteria you accept.  

 long before you asked me to define my perspective of an athlete, check the thread. but i'll go ahead and answer your question anyway.
 My definition of an athlete is a person who uses speed, strength, endurance, coordination and agility in conjunction with cardiovascular capacity all on a performance level. There you go have at it.
 So just because my aunt can catch and throw a football does not make her an athlete. Someone bench pressing 500 lbs. is not an athlete, i know this will offend many here (the strongmen on espn are athletes) Shuffle Board players are not athletes.

 can you now answer my question..see the bold typed above.

[tonymctones]

i think i get the gist of what you are trying to say. please dont play the "i wont answer you question until you answer mine" because i asked you   long before you asked me to define my perspective of an athlete, check the thread. but i'll go ahead and answer your question anyway.
 My definition of an athlete is a person who uses speed, strength, endurance, coordination and agility in conjunction with cardiovascular capacity all on a performance level. There you go have at it.
 So just because my aunt can catch and throw a football does not make her an athlete. Someone bench pressing 500 lbs. is not an athlete, i know this will offend many here (the strongmen on espn are athletes) Shuffle Board players are not athletes.
 can you now answer my question..see the bold typed above.

sorry i got a little overzealous, not meaning to be a dick

Yes though by definition they are this is the problem and ill show a flaw in your definition and in really any definition for that matter.

"My definition of an athlete is a person who uses speed, strength, endurance, coordination and agility in conjunction with cardiovascular capacity all on a performance level."

golfers by your definition are athletes, they walk 18 holes (cardiovascular), have to hit a small ball 300+ yds at times (speed and strength), have to be able to shape the ball flight to fit the shot and place it with pin point accuracy (coordination and agility) and with the best players in the world(performance level).

I like how you tried to throw performance level and cardio in there but again as you can see they are still considered athletes, shit john daly probably gets really winded walking from time to time does that make him more of an athlete? hahah j/k

[ATHEIST]

sorry i got a little overzealous, not meaning to be a dick

Yes though by definition they are this is the problem and ill show a flaw in your definition and in really any definition for that matter.

"My definition of an athlete is a person who uses speed, strength, endurance, coordination and agility in conjunction with cardiovascular capacity all on a performance level."

golfers by your definition are athletes, they walk 18 holes (cardiovascular), have to hit a small ball 300+ yds at times (speed and strength), have to be able to shape the ball flight to fit the shot and place it with pin point accuracy (coordination and agility) and with the best players in the world(performance level).

I like how you tried to throw performance level and cardio in there but again as you can see they are still considered athletes, shit john daly probably gets really winded walking from time to time does that make him more of an athlete? hahah j/k

i know youre not trying to be a dick, neither am i.

  I knew you would use cardiovascular capacity and relate it walking the 18 holes, but in all honestly walking is one of the lowest levels of cardiovascular capacity there is. Most people are capable of doing that.

 i would think you'd have to be in some type of shape to be considered an athlete above the Mickelson and Daly level.
 and by performance level i was dismissing the "grandpa could throw and catch therefore he is an athlete" counter.

[tonymctones]

i know youre not trying to be a dick, neither am i.

  I knew you would use cardiovascular capacity and relate it walking the 18 holes, but in all honestly walking is one of the lowest levels of cardiovascular capacity there is. Most people are capable of doing that.

 i would think you'd have to be in some type of shape to be considered an athlete above the Mickelson and Daly level.
 and by performance level i was dismissing the "grandpa could throw and catch therefore he is an athlete" counter.

agreed but you see here your qualifying cardiovascular level and performance level further more how do you know what their cardiovascular level is i bet mickelson could probably run as much as big pappi. Your right most ppl can walk 18 holes most ppl can run around bases too, run 100 yds as well. Gymnast probably dont get their heart rate up that much as a pro running back doing the balance beam or vault but are those not athletic acts? So what cardiovascular level would you consider an athlete and what performance level would you consider an athlete?

[ATHEIST]

agreed but you see here your qualifying cardiovascular level and performance level further more how do you know what their cardiovascular level is i bet mickelson could probably run as much as big pappi. Your right most ppl can walk 18 holes most ppl can run around bases too, run 100 yds as well. Gymnast probably dont get their heart rate up that much as a pro running back doing the balance beam or vault but are those not athletic acts? So what cardiovascular level would you consider an athlete and what performance level would you consider an athlete?

 Yes i am qualifying cardio capacity with performance level because they are attributes that i feel are required to be an athlete, not just for convenience sake.
 Mickelson could very well run a mile as well or as badly as Pappi, i understand where you are going with comparative athleticism. However Pappi has to run the bases and participate in other athletic type of practices,Golfers dont need to run what so ever or even jog for that matter.
 As minute as simply running the bases may seem its still part of the game. Hitting a baseball off of a pitcher and running the bases is deeper than simply "running" around the bases yes anyone could do that. But what if he hits a double? he then has to sprint no? it may seem minimal but it is part of the sport.
 Gymnasts are athletes of the highest level. Im not sure where youre getting the running back/gymnast comparison from but i think everyones definition of an athlete would include gymnasts regardless of where their heartrate falls.
 

So what cardiovascular level would you consider an athlete and what performance level would you consider an athlete?

cardiovascular level would have to be greater than what is required from golf IMO, golfers are not required to be in any type of shape.

this is going in circles my friend, if you would like to consider golfers athletes then by all means do so. I would like to think that being an athlete requires more than just hitting a golf ball accurately and walking to the next hole.
 

[tonymctones]

 Yes i am qualifying cardio capacity with performance level because they are attributes that i feel are required to be an athlete, not just for convenience sake.
 Mickelson could very well run a mile as well or as badly as Pappi, i understand where you are going with comparative athleticism. However Pappi has to run the bases and participate in other athletic type of practices,Golfers dont need to run what so ever or even jog for that matter.
 As minute as simply running the bases may seem its still part of the game. Hitting a baseball off of a pitcher and running the bases is deeper than simply "running" around the bases yes anyone could do that. But what if he hits a double? he then has to sprint no? it may seem minimal but it is part of the sport.
 Gymnasts are athletes of the highest level. Im not sure where youre getting the running back/gymnast comparison from but i think everyones definition of an athlete would include gymnasts regardless of where their heartrate falls.
  cardiovascular level would have to be greater than what is required from golf IMO, golfers are not required to be in any type of shape.

this is going in circles my friend, if you would like to consider golfers athletes then by all means do so. I would like to think that being an athlete requires more than just hitting a golf ball accurately and walking to the next hole.
 

Ahh see now your getting back to what is a sport not the definition of an athlete

you ever had to make a 40 foot putt to win a tournament? you know how hard and fast your heart would be pounding? my point is that by your definition golfers are athletes i understand you dont think they are but you cant verbally define it in a way that shows they arent only that you dont think they are athletic.

What would probably be the easiest is to say that there are different calibers of athletes and both golfers and baseball players etc...are athletes just to different degrees.

[ATHEIST]

Ahh see now your getting back to what is a sport not the definition of an athlete

you are incorrect my friend, i am explaining my definition of an athlete, which differs from yours in that my criteria is more stringent. as i said earlier your definition is very general and encompasses a very broad range of what i would consider a minimal skill set.

you ever had to make a 40 foot putt to win a tournament? you know how hard and fast your heart would be pounding?

thats a very bad example youre using. the same can be said of an elite dart player needing to close out the last number in a game of darts, would you consider him athlete also? just because you find it difficult and feel pressure does not constitute you as an athlete.

my point is that by your definition golfers are athletes

by my definition golfers are not athletes, read my post were i explained that i believe they do not require any cardiovascular capacity on a performance level, juxtaposed to your walking 18 holes as a form of cardiovascular conditioning allowing them to be considered athletes. anyone can walk 18 holes just as my grandfather would be able to catch and throw a football to a certain extent but he isnt an athlete. dont think he could have walked 18 holes though..

i understand you dont think they are but you cant verbally define it in a way that shows they arent only that you dont think they are athletic.

i did verbalize my definition in my previous post.

What would probably be the easiest is to say that there are different calibers of athletes and both golfers and baseball players etc...are athletes just to different degrees.

   i guess we are at an impasse.
 i am not saying i am correct by any means, its just my opinion and i enjoy a good debate.
 
  but for the record if you took a survey and asked people the question of whether they regard golfers as athletes Im fairly confident that the majority would would be in favor with you, I just personally do not consider them as such.

 i think the question "are golfers athletes?" is a difficult question to be answered by a simple yes or no.

[ATHEIST]

Playing football at a highschool level requires more athletic ability than Golf does at the highest level.

very well put

[CalvinH]

I'm an avid golfer and this is still a hard question for me to answer
at the highest level could it be a sport,maybe.
but I'll be honest the way I play it's not a sport.I usually take a cart and if I'm with friends drink some beers.



now that I'm older I can say that nothing is more fun for me than playing a round golf with my dad

[ATHEIST]

now that I'm older I can say that nothing is more fun for me than playing a round golf with my dad

thats awesome, looking back i should have appreciated the time i had with him a lot more instead of being an ignorant teenager. he loved to golf, still have his clubs at my moms.

[tonymctones]

i wish my dad played golf we have alot of other things in common lifting, guns and such but it would be nice if he played golf too.

[Hedgehog]

I'm leaning towards 'no.'

what do you guys think?

No.

It's not a sport.

It is a game.

[ATHEIST]

i wish my dad played golf we have alot of other things in common lifting, guns and such but it would be nice if he played golf too.

speaking of guns, i was at at gun shop and saw an AK-Shotgun. a shotgun in the AK style that can hold up to 20 rounds!! and the handle can be changed to a pistol grip! im so temped to buy it. a friend of mine bought an AR-15.

[tonymctones]

speaking of guns, i was at at gun shop and saw an AK-Shotgun. a shotgun in the AK style that can hold up to 20 rounds!! and the handle can be changed to a pistol grip! im so temped to buy it. a friend of mine bought an AR-15.

LOL WHAT? im gonna have to look that up was it a semi auto or a pump? Ive been wanting to buy a semi auto shot gun for a while now. I got an smith & wesson AR a few months ago for 800 from what i hear now theyve already jumped up to like 11 or 1300 now.

[ATHEIST]

LOL WHAT? im gonna have to look that up was it a semi auto or a pump? Ive been wanting to buy a semi auto shot gun for a while now. I got an smith & wesson AR a few months ago for 800 from what i hear now theyve already jumped up to like 11 or 1300 now.

 its Saiga semi-auto good for up to 20 straight rounds!! it looks bad ass!! its $1100 but think you can get it cheaper. it comes with a 5 round clip and a 10 round clip and you can purchase the 20 round drum seperately. with the drum and pistol grip it looks nuts!! so intimidating.
 the AR I was looking at was Russian made and was selling for $1400, the cost of those has sky rocketed for some reason. I think the semi's cost will be going up due to the fact that Obama may try and ban semi-auto's.

[tonymctones]

its Saiga semi-auto good for up to 20 straight rounds!! it looks bad ass!! its $1100 but think you can get it cheaper. it comes with a 5 round clip and a 10 round clip and you can purchase the 20 round drum seperately. with the drum and pistol grip it looks nuts!! so intimidating.
 the AR I was looking at was Russian made and was selling for $1400, the cost of those has sky rocketed for some reason. I think the semi's cost will be going up due to the fact that Obama may try and ban semi-auto's.

cool i looked it up it does look crazy and its semi auto too, 1100 is alot for a shot gun though but imagine having a semi auto shotgun with a 20 rd drum  ohhh that would be sweet.

[MidniteRambo]

Answer:  No, it's a game.