THE TOTAL ABSOLUTE NO - BULLSHIT TRUTH ABOUT SUPPLEMENTS

[brent2741]

c'mon Brent..you are too smart to let yourself be ripped off...even you admit in your post that the supps only make a PSYCHOLOGICAL difference...they do not work in terms of getting bigger or stronger physically...YOU make the difference!!!

but i honestly think that no-xplode helps me workout better and as long as i think that its no biggie. To me its no diff then using an ipod to workout with, i may not need any music to workout to but my workouts are much better with.

[andreisdaman]

%50 Placebo %50 Real Effect for the best supplements IMO.

most others %90 percent placebo effect IMO.

ANDREISDAMAN
I agree with you andreisdaman but there is still a slight effect to most of them but the net gain you notice cannot be attibuted to much more than placebo. Spend you $ how you wa't if you have it.

What about ZMA. Im interested to see what soundness and debussy have to say about ZMA. I have had some huge effects from it. Mostly incredible sleep and incredibly vivid dreams (can be very good or very bad lol) and when I wake up I feel like 100 bucks even if I didn't sleep more than 3-4 hrs it will feel like i was asleep for 8.

Thanks for your agreement with me Arnold Palmer....I think supps are basically placebo...and nothing else....and ZMA is an example..I have tried it and it DOES enhance sleep..plus it gives me some wild , vivid dreams.....but it wasn't marketed as such originally...it was supposed to boost testosterone which it DOES NOT!...but we believe that it does and hence we think our test levels are higher but they aren't really....ZMA does nothing to help you build muscle..plain and simple....hence..another rip-off.....it may help us build muscle through helping us to get a good night's sleep so that we can recuperate and have the energy to get back in the gym again,..but that's it....and no way would it sell as much if it was advertised as such.....it's sexier for the supp companies to claim it boosts test levels....

[JasonH]

I'm pretty sure there are a lot of supplements out there that are bullshit but stuff like whey protein isolate, no-explode and creatine definitely are not bullshit. I wouldn't train in the gym without these now.

[busyB]

Yeah ZMA from GNC is more expensive. But thing is you can return it even if you use it for a few weeks if it doesn't work. Therefore I think its a good idea if you a trying for the first time. And really its about $20 online so with shipping its not that more. I think its for a month and a half instead of a month supply like the ones online for $20.

I pay under $15, with tax for NOW ZMA at my local mom and pop shop. All ZMA is trademarked from SNAC Systems (Victor Conte) so all ZMA is the same   

Same return policy however, you need to use any supplement longer than a couple weeks to know if it is actually working or not. Lot of factors to determine if a supplement is working.

[andreisdaman]

I'm pretty sure there are a lot of supplements out there that are bullshit but stuff like whey protein isolate, no-explode and creatine definitely are not bullshit. I wouldn't train in the gym without these now.

well...as I have said..if you want a false placebo effect..then fine..take it...but you don't need that stuff.....creatine only helps u to retain water so u get heavier and bloated..you THINK you are bigger but it doesn't last....go to the gym without taking all the junk..you will be richer and feel much much better

[pac-man]

Andre,

You make some good points in your post.  I agree there is a lot of crap that has come on the market over the years and some companies are shameless in their advertising. 

That being said after working out form many years a person does begin to come "in tune" with their bodies.  They know what gets them moving for a workout and what doesn't.  For example I have found creatine/beta-alanine products to give me good energy and less soreness.  I know what it is to train with and without it.  Soreness and feeling like you can train more days a week with a supplement goes beyond the psychological ritual that you point out.

Another example is a protein powder.  Sometimes when working long days I just dont have time to sit down and eat.  A protein supplement allows me to get a quick meal when I'm busy.  I dont expect it to turn me into a pro bodybuilder but it serves its purpose to get a meal.

Your point is well taken that companies want you to empty your wallet...so does every other business on the planet.  Think about the crap that the average consumer purchases.  If your working out, eating well, and living the lifestyle, supplements have their place.  It is up to the consumer to make an educated decision and be realistic about what the expectations are.  At least today we have message boards to discuss what works and different experiences.  Back when I started it was Joe Weiders line of soy based proteins. lol.  We have come a long way.

[The ChemistV2]

Supplements that have worked well for me.(if you get the right brand)- Aromatase Inhibitors= Less estrogen and more testosterone. Gh peptide 2- proven in many studies to release significant amounts of Growth hormone. High doses of Eurycoma and Avena sativa extracts- decent boosts in testosterone. UPS labs Anabolic Pump- good Glucose disposal supplement, shuttles carbs into muscle and inhibits entry into fat cells causing more fullness and greater workout Pump. Hydrolyzed Whey protein-fastest absorbed whey there is= great post workout recovery booster.  If you're not on steroids, then the next best thing is to boost your natural levels of GH and testosterone to higher levels and maintain a positive nitrogen balance through properly timed protein and amino acid feedings.

[big L dawg]

Best supplement = food !

food is not a supplement.HTH.

[tbombz]

Supplements that have worked well for me.(if you get the right brand)- Aromatase Inhibitors= Less estrogen and more testosterone. Gh peptide 2- proven in many studies to release significant amounts of Growth hormone. High doses of Eurycoma and Avena sativa extracts- decent boosts in testosterone. UPS labs Anabolic Pump- good Glucose disposal supplement, shuttles carbs into muscle and inhibits entry into fat cells causing more fullness and greater workout Pump. Hydrolyzed Whey protein-fastest absorbed whey there is= great post workout recovery booster.  If you're not on steroids, then the next best thing is to boost your natural levels of GH and testosterone to higher levels and maintain a positive nitrogen balance through properly timed protein and amino acid feedings.

hey chemist. im just wondering , since you seem like a real health concious guy , im wondering why you use the aromatase inhibitors and the gh releasing peptide. both of those are very effective for what you want them to do, thats a fact im sure you know, however both of those will effect health and lifespan in a negative way.

[The ChemistV2]

hey chemist. im just wondering , since you seem like a real health concious guy , im wondering why you use the aromatase inhibitors and the gh releasing peptide. both of those are very effective for what you want them to do, thats a fact im sure you know, however both of those will effect health and lifespan in a negative way.

I don't agree with that. The Aromatase inhibitor I am talking about is 6-oxo. It is very mild in its effects. It does not totally eliminate estrogen like a good dose of Arimidex will and I also use a very small dose of 6-oxo. My blood work shows no adverse effects on cholesterol levels like what would happen with Arimidex. I have cycled 6-oxo on and off for over 3 years with no perceivable adverse effects whatsoever. No rebound when I go off.. Gh peptide 2 is what's in Hemogex by VPX. It is merely a peptide that causes release of your Growth Hormone. Why would mildly elevating your own Growth Hormone into high normal ranges be unhealthful? Growth Hormone is only unhealthy when you elevate it way beyond normal physiological levels for extended periods of time. My philosophy or theory  is that the body will always respond in a more healthful way to your own DNA specific, genetically coded hormones than it will massive doses of synthetic hormones. Any non-toxic, side effect free way of elevating your own hormones is good for life extension, musclebuilding etc.

[tbombz]

Okay then, lol, seems you were way ahead of me.

i thought you were using a strong aromatase inhibitor and ghrp that is super strong and gets the levels  above what even is achieved with a few ius of gh.

[The ChemistV2]

Okay then, lol, seems you were way ahead of me.

i thought you were using a strong aromatase inhibitor and ghrp that is super strong and gets the levels  above what even is achieved with a few ius of gh.

Right, although these supplements are somewhat mild, I seem to respond very favorably to them. Also, because of my age, I may get a better effect than a younger person. Actually GH peptide 2 is one of the few orally active Gh releasing petides and believe or not VPX's oral hemogex formulation supposedly keeps gh elevated longer than the injectable GH peptide 2 which you can buy from certain "research peptide" labs.

[tbombz]

but i assume it reaches no where near the peak in gh levels that the injectible produces.



their was an orally active igf-1 on the market a while ago too. it got pulled though.

[The ChemistV2]

but i assume it reaches no where near the peak in gh levels that the injectible produces.



their was an orally active igf-1 on the market a while ago too. it got pulled though.

When you say on the market, you don't mean on the supplement market do you? I saw some company with a product called IGF-1 but I sincerely doubt it had any IGf-1 in it. If there was an oral version, the peptide labs would have come up with it before any supplement company would have. By the way, have you ever injected IGF-1 long r-3?..If so, how many micrograms per day and what results did you get? Just curious.

[tbombz]

When you say on the market, you don't mean on the supplement market do you? I saw some company with a product called IGF-1 but I sincerely doubt it had any IGf-1 in it. If there was an oral version, the peptide labs would have come up with it before any supplement company would have. By the way, have you ever injected IGF-1 long r-3?..If so, how many micrograms per day and what results did you get? Just curious.

   


ive never used igf lr3 or any igf for that matter... i dont really believe that youll ever get any real igf from any supplier..unless you personally know somebody at a legit pharmacy..


Oratropin Profile

Summary: Oratropin is the only non-injected form of IGF-I (Insulin Like Growth Factor) that is actually available to the body. Every other dietary supplement that claims to have IGF is a waste because it can not survive the digestive system and therefore is not actually used by your body. Oratropin uses the newest anti-viral technology coupled with adhesive peptide technology so that it actually does no go through the digestive tract but is absorbed through the skin on the inside of the cheeks. Oratropin is therefore the only FDA approved, and legal form of IGF for human consumption that actually works.


Cell-Mediated™ IGF-1
(for oral use)
100% Bioavailability, Orally Active, Sustained 24-48 hours
Each kit contains:
1200mcg Cell-Mediated™ IGF-1
15 individually sealed oral syringes for ease in daily dosing,
no measurements, no hassles.
Each oral syringe contains:
80mcg Cell-Mediated™ IGF-1
sustained 24-48 hrs
0.5 cc's (0.661g) Oratropin-1™


SUGGESTED RETAIL: $220.00

its nto legal now, but it was available on the supplement marke. it was even advertised in MD for a while. its legit and it works but its impossible to find now.

[The ChemistV2]

   


ive never used igf lr3 or any igf for that matter... i dont really believe that youll ever get any real igf from any supplier..unless you personally know somebody at a legit pharmacy..


Oratropin Profile

Summary: Oratropin is the only non-injected form of IGF-I (Insulin Like Growth Factor) that is actually available to the body. Every other dietary supplement that claims to have IGF is a waste because it can not survive the digestive system and therefore is not actually used by your body. Oratropin uses the newest anti-viral technology coupled with adhesive peptide technology so that it actually does no go through the digestive tract but is absorbed through the skin on the inside of the cheeks. Oratropin is therefore the only FDA approved, and legal form of IGF for human consumption that actually works.


Cell-Mediated™ IGF-1
(for oral use)
100% Bioavailability, Orally Active, Sustained 24-48 hours
Each kit contains:
1200mcg Cell-Mediated™ IGF-1
15 individually sealed oral syringes for ease in daily dosing,
no measurements, no hassles.
Each oral syringe contains:
80mcg Cell-Mediated™ IGF-1
sustained 24-48 hrs
0.5 cc's (0.661g) Oratropin-1™


SUGGESTED RETAIL: $220.00

its nto legal now, but it was available on the supplement marke. it was even advertised in MD for a while. its legit and it works but its impossible to find now.

I forgot about those guys. Good job. I actually bought a product from them 2 years ago, forgot the name of it, but it had GH peptide 6 and Hexarelin in it. I think they had some good legit products. Oratropin had some guys on one of their forums posting some good stuff about it.

[tbombz]

i defitely want to try the hexarelin from musclemeds. im nhot sure how it works but it claims to increas igf-1 like hell.

[Arnold Palmer]

Same results and opinion of 6-OXO right here. I think it is better than using something hardcore and trying to drop your estrogen to nill, which is not good for you anyway. Most things are good in moderation and nothing in excess is a good guideline for most things in life. You shouldn't need to fill your body with a shit tone of synthetic crap anyway our bodies capable of doing great things on thier own. A little push is great but you have to be insane if you think being all pumped on synthetics is the right way to go. If 6-OXO isn't enough your body must really fucking suck plain and simple.

[tbombz]

Same results and opinion of 6-OXO right here. I think it is better than using something hardcore and trying to drop your estrogen to nill, which is not good for you anyway. Most things are good in moderation and nothing in excess is a good guideline for most things in life. You shouldn't need to fill your body with a shit tone of synthetic crap anyway our bodies capable of doing great things on thier own. A little push is great but you have to be insane if you think being all pumped on synthetics is the right way to go. If 6-OXO isn't enough your body must really fucking suck plain and simple.

well it depends on what kind of level of bodybuilding your trying to get too.

[Geo]

Max muscles "Carbo Max" and creatine before and whey and creatine after is no bullshit !


don't know about all the other crap they sell

[tbombz]

Max muscles "Carbo Max" and creatine before and whey and creatine after is no bullshit !


don't know about all the other crap they sell

do they whey and creatine before AND after...but if just one or the other then do before

[Geo]

do they whey and creatine before AND after...but if just one or the other then do before

my energy level stays higher on a semi empty stomach (with the exception of the complex carbs) so I don't eat 2 hours before I go in....

protien repairs so why would'nt I get in the protien after ?

[tbombz]

my energy level stays higher on a semi empty stomach (with the exception of the complex carbs) so I don't eat 2 hours before I go in....

protien repairs so why would'nt I get in the protien after ?

i understand having better energy without the protien. maybe you could try some hydrolyzed protein, pepto pro, some eaa's, bcaa's or just l leucine. all those would help.

the reason for whey before is because , among other things, studies show that at the end of the day, a pre workout protein shake provides more protein accrual  than a post workout shake. but that a combo of the two is even better than just one or the other.

now, the reasoning behind why this is so, i speculate its because of a decrease in proptein breakdown during exercise and an increase in lipolysis. ALSO you must consider the digestion rate of protein, and also how long it will stay in the blood stream. if you drink whey 1 hour pre workout. then at the  moment your starting to workout, your whey should just get done digesting, and from that point, unless you synthesis or metabolize all those amino acids dduring you workout, then those whey aminos should be good for about three hours in your blood stream. thus, after a one hour workout, youll have whey aminos left over for two hours. so, even though its a pre workout shake, it also acts as a "durign" workout shake, and a "post" workout shake. since the aminos are available at those times as wel..

[The ChemistV2]

i understand having better energy without the protien. maybe you could try some hydrolyzed protein, pepto pro, some eaa's, bcaa's or just l leucine. all those would help.

the reason for whey before is because , among other things, studies show that at the end of the day, a pre workout protein shake provides more protein accrual  than a post workout shake. but that a combo of the two is even better than just one or the other.

now, the reasoning behind why this is so, i speculate its because of a decrease in proptein breakdown during exercise and an increase in lipolysis. ALSO you must consider the digestion rate of protein, and also how long it will stay in the blood stream. if you drink whey 1 hour pre workout. then at the  moment your starting to workout, your whey should just get done digesting, and from that point, unless you synthesis or metabolize all those amino acids dduring you workout, then those whey aminos should be good for about three hours in your blood stream. thus, after a one hour workout, youll have whey aminos left over for two hours. so, even though its a pre workout shake, it also acts as a "durign" workout shake, and a "post" workout shake. since the aminos are available at those times as wel..

Your theory makes good metabolic sense.

[andreisdaman]

Guys...you all seem very smart and very knowledgeable about these things.....but again//believe me..if you want to ramp up your test levels..just go to the urologist.....he will give you a needle in the ass of testosterone every two months...costs me $45.00 per visit....and I am getting the real thing......don't have to waste money on supp junk....this works better than any supp...and my dick is so hard in the mornings it feels like it's going to burst out of my underwear and walk around the room on it's own...and for the average gym joe...this is sufficient..u are never going to get the huge amounts of test needed to build extaordinary muscle like the pros by taking inhibitors and stuf like that...