Author Topic: Will Rick Warren Invoke Christ?  (Read 4046 times)

Dos Equis

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Will Rick Warren Invoke Christ?
« on: December 31, 2008, 07:53:29 AM »
More anti-religious paranoia. 

Will Rick Warren Invoke Christ?

Tuesday, December 30, 2008 7:47 PM

President-elect Barack Obama's choice of Rick Warren to deliver the inaugural invocation drew one kind of protest. Whether the evangelical pastor offers the prayer in the name of Jesus may draw another. At George W. Bush's 2001 swearing-in, the Revs. Franklin Graham and Kirbyjon Caldwell were criticized for invoking Christ. The distinctly Christian reference at a national civic event offended some, and even prompted a lawsuit.

Warren did not answer directly when asked whether he would dedicate his prayer to Jesus. In a statement Tuesday to The Associated Press, Warren would say only that, "I'm a Christian pastor so I will pray the only kind of prayer I know how to pray."

"Prayers are not to be sermons, speeches, position statements nor political posturing. They are humble, personal appeals to God," Warren wrote. His spokesman would not elaborate.

Evangelicals generally expect their clergymen to use Jesus' name whenever and wherever they lead prayer. Many conservative Christians say cultural sensitivity goes way too far if it requires religious leaders to hide their beliefs.

"If Rick Warren does not pray in Jesus' name, some folks are going to be very disappointed," Caldwell said in a recent phone interview. "Since he's evangelical, his own tribe, if you will, will have some angst if he does not do that."

Advocates for gay rights protested Obama's decision to give Warren a prominent role at the swearing-in. The California megachurch founder supported Proposition 8, which banned same-sex marriage in his home state. Obama defended his choice, saying he wanted the event to reflect diverse views and insisting he remains a "fierce advocate" of equal rights for gays.

The Rev. Joseph Lowery, a United Methodist who is considered the dean of the civil rights movement, said he hasn't yet written the benediction for the Jan. 20 ceremony. But he said "whatever religion the person represents, I think he has a right to be true to his religion."

Caldwell, also a Methodist, said no one from the Bush team told him what to say in his 2001 and 2005 benedictions.

The Houston pastor said he had "no intention whatsoever of offending" people when he quoted from Philippians and delivered the 2001 prayer "in the name that's above all other names, Jesus the Christ." In 2005, he still prayed in Jesus' name, but added the line, "respecting persons of all faiths." In the 2008 election, Caldwell supported Obama.

Franklin Graham, son of evangelist Billy Graham, who was a presence at presidential inaugurations for several decades, said it's wrong to expect members of any faith to change how they pray in public.

"For a Christian, especially for an evangelical pastor, the Bible teaches us that we are to pray in the name of Jesus Christ. How can a minister pray any other way?" Franklin Graham said. "If you don't want someone to pray in Jesus' name, don't invite an evangelical minister."

Graham, who in 2001 stepped in for his ailing father, ended the invocation with, "We pray this in the name of the Father, and of the Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit."

The lawsuit, which claimed that inaugural prayer was an unconstitutional endorsement of religion, failed in federal court. It had been filed by atheist Michael Newdow, who separately sued to remove the words "under God" from the Pledge of Allegiance.

Billy Graham, now 90, didn't say Jesus' name during presidential inaugurations, but made obvious references to Christ.

At Richard Nixon's 1969 swearing-in, Graham prayed "in the Name of the Prince of Peace who shed His blood on the Cross that men might have eternal life." In 1997, for Bill Clinton's inaugural, Graham prayed "in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit."

Leaders of other traditions with experience in interfaith work said they respected Christians who felt strongly that they should pray in Christ's name.

But they argued that a request for some modification is reasonable for a presidential inauguration, considering it's an event representing all Americans.

Imam Yahya Hendi, a Muslim chaplain at Georgetown University who travels to Muslim countries on behalf of the State Department, said that at interfaith events, he refers to Allah, or God, as "almighty creator of us all."

Rabbi Burt Visotzky, a professor at the Jewish Theological Seminary, the flagship institution of Conservative Judaism, said he invokes "God" for interfaith prayer.

"I know that for Christians, Jesus is part of their Trinity," said Visotzky, who has taught at Pontifical Gregorian University in Rome and at Protestant seminaries in the U.S. "For me as a Jew, hearing the name of a first-century rabbi isn't the worst thing in the world, but it's not my God."
 
http://www.newsmax.com/insidecover/rick_warren_inaugural/2008/12/30/166530.html

Straw Man

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Re: Will Rick Warren Invoke Christ?
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2008, 08:46:44 AM »
More anti-religious paranoia. 

Will Rick Warren Invoke Christ?

Tuesday, December 30, 2008 7:47 PM

President-elect Barack Obama's choice of Rick Warren to deliver the inaugural invocation drew one kind of protest. Whether the evangelical pastor offers the prayer in the name of Jesus may draw another. At George W. Bush's 2001 swearing-in, the Revs. Franklin Graham and Kirbyjon Caldwell were criticized for invoking Christ. The distinctly Christian reference at a national civic event offended some, and even prompted a lawsuit.

Warren did not answer directly when asked whether he would dedicate his prayer to Jesus. In a statement Tuesday to The Associated Press, Warren would say only that, "I'm a Christian pastor so I will pray the only kind of prayer I know how to pray."

"Prayers are not to be sermons, speeches, position statements nor political posturing. They are humble, personal appeals to God," Warren wrote. His spokesman would not elaborate.

Evangelicals generally expect their clergymen to use Jesus' name whenever and wherever they lead prayer. Many conservative Christians say cultural sensitivity goes way too far if it requires religious leaders to hide their beliefs.

"If Rick Warren does not pray in Jesus' name, some folks are going to be very disappointed," Caldwell said in a recent phone interview. "Since he's evangelical, his own tribe, if you will, will have some angst if he does not do that."

Advocates for gay rights protested Obama's decision to give Warren a prominent role at the swearing-in. The California megachurch founder supported Proposition 8, which banned same-sex marriage in his home state. Obama defended his choice, saying he wanted the event to reflect diverse views and insisting he remains a "fierce advocate" of equal rights for gays.

The Rev. Joseph Lowery, a United Methodist who is considered the dean of the civil rights movement, said he hasn't yet written the benediction for the Jan. 20 ceremony. But he said "whatever religion the person represents, I think he has a right to be true to his religion."

Caldwell, also a Methodist, said no one from the Bush team told him what to say in his 2001 and 2005 benedictions.

The Houston pastor said he had "no intention whatsoever of offending" people when he quoted from Philippians and delivered the 2001 prayer "in the name that's above all other names, Jesus the Christ." In 2005, he still prayed in Jesus' name, but added the line, "respecting persons of all faiths." In the 2008 election, Caldwell supported Obama.

Franklin Graham, son of evangelist Billy Graham, who was a presence at presidential inaugurations for several decades, said it's wrong to expect members of any faith to change how they pray in public.

"For a Christian, especially for an evangelical pastor, the Bible teaches us that we are to pray in the name of Jesus Christ. How can a minister pray any other way?" Franklin Graham said. "If you don't want someone to pray in Jesus' name, don't invite an evangelical minister."

Graham, who in 2001 stepped in for his ailing father, ended the invocation with, "We pray this in the name of the Father, and of the Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit."

The lawsuit, which claimed that inaugural prayer was an unconstitutional endorsement of religion, failed in federal court. It had been filed by atheist Michael Newdow, who separately sued to remove the words "under God" from the Pledge of Allegiance.

Billy Graham, now 90, didn't say Jesus' name during presidential inaugurations, but made obvious references to Christ.

At Richard Nixon's 1969 swearing-in, Graham prayed "in the Name of the Prince of Peace who shed His blood on the Cross that men might have eternal life." In 1997, for Bill Clinton's inaugural, Graham prayed "in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit."

Leaders of other traditions with experience in interfaith work said they respected Christians who felt strongly that they should pray in Christ's name.

But they argued that a request for some modification is reasonable for a presidential inauguration, considering it's an event representing all Americans.

Imam Yahya Hendi, a Muslim chaplain at Georgetown University who travels to Muslim countries on behalf of the State Department, said that at interfaith events, he refers to Allah, or God, as "almighty creator of us all."

Rabbi Burt Visotzky, a professor at the Jewish Theological Seminary, the flagship institution of Conservative Judaism, said he invokes "God" for interfaith prayer.

"I know that for Christians, Jesus is part of their Trinity," said Visotzky, who has taught at Pontifical Gregorian University in Rome and at Protestant seminaries in the U.S. "For me as a Jew, hearing the name of a first-century rabbi isn't the worst thing in the world, but it's not my God."
 
http://www.newsmax.com/insidecover/rick_warren_inaugural/2008/12/30/166530.html

you're the only one here who keeps bringing up paranoia


Dos Equis

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Re: Will Rick Warren Invoke Christ?
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2008, 12:05:23 PM »
More from the paranoid anti-religious extremists (CNN's version):

Lawsuit seeks to take 'so help me God' out of inaugural
By Carol Cratty
CNN
     
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A number of atheists and non-religious organizations want Barack Obama's inauguration ceremony to leave out all references to God and religion.

In a lawsuit filed Tuesday in Washington, the plaintiffs demand that the words "so help me God" not be added to the end of the president's oath of office.

In addition, the lawsuit objects to plans for ministers to deliver an invocation and a benediction in which they may discuss God and religion.

An advance copy of the lawsuit was posted online by Michael Newdow, a California doctor and lawyer who has filed similar and unsuccessful suits over inauguration ceremonies in 2001 and 2005.

Joining Newdow in the suit are groups advocating religious freedom or atheism, including the American Humanist Association, the Freedom from Religion Foundation and atheist groups from Minnesota; Seattle, Washington; and Florida.

The new lawsuit says in part, "There can be no purpose for placing 'so help me God' in an oath or sponsoring prayers to God, other than promoting the particular point of view that God exists."

Newdow said references to God during inauguration ceremonies violate the Constitution's ban on the establishment of religion.

Newdow and other plaintiffs say they want to watch the inaugural either in person or on television. As atheists, they contend, having to watch a ceremony with religious components will make them feel excluded and stigmatized.

"Plaintiffs are placed in the untenable position of having to choose between not watching the presidential inauguration or being forced to countenance endorsements of purely religious notions that they expressly deny," according to the lawsuit.

Among those named in the lawsuit are Chief Justice of the United States John Roberts, who is expected to swear in the new president; the Presidential Inauguration Committee; the Joint Congressional Committee on Inauguration Ceremonies and its chairwoman, Sen. Dianne Feinstein of California; and the Armed Forces Inaugural Committee and its commander, Maj. Gen. Richard Rowe Jr.

The two ministers scheduled to participate in the ceremony also are named: the Rev. Rick Warren and the Rev. Joseph Lowery. The document includes a quotation from Warren on atheists: "I could not vote for an atheist because an atheist says, 'I don't need God.' "

Newdow told CNN that he didn't name President-elect Barack Obama in the suit because in addition to participating as a government official at the ceremony, he possesses rights as an individual that allow him to express religious beliefs.

"If he chooses to ask for God's help, I'm not going to challenge him," Newdow said. "I think it's unwise."

Newdow said that as a member of a racial minority, Obama should have respect for atheists, who also are members of a minority.

Newdow said religious references in the inauguration ceremony send a message to non-believers.

"The message here is, we who believe in God are the righteous, the real Americans," he said.

Newdow said it's unconstitutional to imply that atheists and others are not as good.

He acknowledged that his suit is unlikely to be successful.

"I have no doubt I'll lose," he said, adding that he hoped to eventually succeed through appeals and hoped future inauguration ceremonies would exclude religious references.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/12/31/inauguration.lawsuit/index.html


Dos Equis

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Re: Will Rick Warren Invoke Christ?
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2009, 11:10:12 AM »
Waaaa! 

Atheists: Remove ‘So Help Me God’ From Inaugural Oath

Thursday, January 8, 2009 10:27 AM

By: Rick Pedraza   

Atheists and several non-religious organizations have filed a 39-page lawsuit to prohibit the use of religious phrases and references to God when President-elect Barack Obama takes the oath of office Jan. 20.

The lawsuit, filed Tuesday in Washington, demands the words “so help me God” and other “explicitly religious dogma” not be uttered at the end of the swearing-in ceremony, the Washington Post reports. In addition, the suit will try to prohibit ministers from invoking a benediction in which God and religion are discussed.

"There can be no purpose for placing 'so help me God' in an oath or sponsoring prayers to God, other than promoting the particular point of view that God exists," says the lawsuit, posted online by a California lawyer who has filed similar and unsuccessful suits over inauguration ceremonies.

Parties to the suit, which states references to God during inauguration ceremonies violates the Constitution's ban on the establishment of religion, include the American Humanist Association; the Freedom from Religion Foundation; atheist groups from Minnesota, Seattle, Washington and Florida; and a handful of other groups advocating religious freedom or atheism.

Atheists contend having to watch a ceremony with religious components will make them feel excluded and stigmatized.

"Plaintiffs are placed in the untenable position of having to choose between not watching the presidential inauguration or being forced to countenance endorsements of purely religious notions that they expressly deny," the lawsuit reads.

Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts, who is expected to swear in Obama, is named in the suit, along with the Presidential Inauguration Committee, the Joint Congressional Committee on Inauguration Ceremonies, Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., the Armed Forces Inaugural Committee, and Maj. Gen. Richard Rowe Jr.

The Rev. Rick Warren and the Rev. Joseph Lowery, both scheduled to participate in the ceremony, also are named.

CNN reports that Obama, who will use the Bible Abraham Lincoln used for his inauguration, is not named in the suit because of his rights as an individual that allow him to express religious beliefs.

The Supreme Court has stated that public acknowledgments of God “are ceremonial, not theological, and serve the legitimate secular purposes of solemnizing public occasions, expressing confidence in the future, and encouraging the recognition of what is worthy of appreciation in society."
 
http://www.newsmax.com/insidecover/atheists_inaugural_oath/2009/01/08/169119.html

Dos Equis

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Re: Will Rick Warren Invoke Christ?
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2009, 12:17:56 PM »
What do the paranoid anti-religious extremists do now?  File another lawsuit? 



Obama has asked to say 'so help me God' at swearing-in
Posted: 04:15 PM ET

From CNN Supreme Court Producer Bill Mears

(CNN) — President-elect Barack Obama has requested that the words “so help me God” be added to the end of the oath of office to be administered by Chief Justice John Roberts on Inauguration Day.

That confirmation came in an affidavit filed today by Roberts' court counselor in a pending lawsuit by an atheist opposed to any mention of God in the inaugural ceremonies. Roberts said he would abide by Obama’s wishes.

The Constitution has specific language on what has to be said when swearing in the president, but the “so help me God” phrase has traditionally been added at the end of the required oath, starting with George Washington in 1789.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/


w8tlftr

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Re: Will Rick Warren Invoke Christ?
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2009, 12:30:01 PM »
The decision to invoke God (or not) should be strictly up to the person taking the oath.

Atheists and Christians can both piss off and mind their own damn business.


Straw Man

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Re: Will Rick Warren Invoke Christ?
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2009, 12:36:53 PM »
The decision to invoke God (or not) should be strictly up to the person taking the oath.
Atheists and Christians can both piss off and mind their own damn business.

agreed but can you imagine the bitching and moaning from the religionista's in this country if he chose not to swear to God

Eyeball Chambers

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Re: Will Rick Warren Invoke Christ?
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2009, 12:46:05 PM »
The decision to invoke God (or not) should be strictly up to the person taking the oath.

Atheists and Christians can both piss off and mind their own damn business.

Too much common sense
S

w8tlftr

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Re: Will Rick Warren Invoke Christ?
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2009, 02:43:52 PM »
agreed but can you imagine the bitching and moaning from the religionista's in this country if he chose not to swear to God

I really wouldn't give a shit.

These God-bots seem to forget that Christianity is about choice.

Personally, I think Obama would choose to invoke God but that's his business. I think the atheists should shut the fvck up about it.

If people don't like it then don't vote for him. That's their choice.


Straw Man

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Re: Will Rick Warren Invoke Christ?
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2009, 03:00:53 PM »
I really wouldn't give a shit.

These God-bots seem to forget that Christianity is about choice.

Personally, I think Obama would choose to invoke God but that's his business. I think the atheists should shut the fvck up about it.

If people don't like it then don't vote for him. That's their choice.

I agree with all of this and especially regarding the zeolous atheists.   They should stay out of it in this instance and let the person taking the oath make the choice

Dos Equis

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Re: Will Rick Warren Invoke Christ?
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2009, 04:11:05 PM »
I really wouldn't give a shit.

These God-bots seem to forget that Christianity is about choice.

Personally, I think Obama would choose to invoke God but that's his business. I think the atheists should shut the fvck up about it.

If people don't like it then don't vote for him. That's their choice.



It is about choice, but the "God-bots" aren't the ones whining about whether Warren will say the name "Jesus Christ" or whether Obama will use a Bible, say God's name, etc.  It's the paranoid atheists. 

Straw Man

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Re: Will Rick Warren Invoke Christ?
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2009, 04:19:25 PM »
It is about choice, but the "God-bots" aren't the ones whining about whether Warren will say the name "Jesus Christ" or whether Obama will use a Bible, say God's name, etc.  It's the paranoid atheists. 

just curious - do you think all atheists are paranoid or just certain ones?


Dos Equis

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Re: Will Rick Warren Invoke Christ?
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2009, 04:21:58 PM »
just curious - do you think all atheists are paranoid or just certain ones?



Not all, of course.  Michael Newdow and his ilk, yes.  I have atheist/agnostic friends who are smart, level headed, good people.

Straw Man

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Re: Will Rick Warren Invoke Christ?
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2009, 04:32:53 PM »
Not all, of course.  Michael Newdow and his ilk, yes.  I have atheist/agnostic friends who are smart, level headed, good people.

just wondering.

 

w8tlftr

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Re: Will Rick Warren Invoke Christ?
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2009, 05:32:26 PM »
It is about choice, but the "God-bots" aren't the ones whining about whether Warren will say the name "Jesus Christ" or whether Obama will use a Bible, say God's name, etc.  It's the paranoid atheists. 

You're right. The "Anti-God-bots" are whining too.

They can piss off also.


Dos Equis

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Re: Will Rick Warren Invoke Christ?
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2009, 10:53:55 AM »
You're right. The "Anti-God-bots" are whining too.

They can piss off also.



Really?  Whining about what?  What lawsuits have they filed? 

Dos Equis

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Re: Will Rick Warren Invoke Christ?
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2009, 10:54:17 AM »
How long will it take atheists to file a lawsuit over this one? 

Another first -- woman to give inaugural sermon
     
(CNN) -- The Rev. Sharon Watkins will deliver the sermon at the traditional National Prayer Service on January 21, the day after Barack Obama is sworn in as president, the Presidential Inaugural Committee announced Sunday.

Watkins, the general minister and president of the 700,000-member church Disciples of Christ, will be the first woman to deliver the sermon at the inaugural event.

It takes place at the National Cathedral in northwest Washington.

"I am truly honored to speak at this historic occasion," Watkins said in a news release from the committee.

She added, "I hope that my message will call us to believe in something bigger than ourselves and remind us to reach out to all of our neighbors to build communities of possibility."

The National Prayer Service is a tradition dating back to the nation's first president, the inaugural committee said.

The service includes prayers and hymns delivered by various religious leaders.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/01/12/inauguration.sermon/index.html

w8tlftr

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Re: Will Rick Warren Invoke Christ?
« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2009, 01:59:45 PM »
Really?  Whining about what?  What lawsuits have they filed? 

I said, "Anti-God-Bots".... not "God-Bots".


Dos Equis

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Re: Will Rick Warren Invoke Christ?
« Reply #18 on: January 12, 2009, 02:05:32 PM »
I said, "Anti-God-Bots".... not "God-Bots".



Oops.  My bad.  Sorry about that. 

bigdumbbell

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Re: Will Rick Warren Invoke Christ?
« Reply #19 on: January 12, 2009, 04:05:13 PM »
rick warren is obese, i hope he has a heart attack and dies tonight

Straw Man

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Re: Will Rick Warren Invoke Christ?
« Reply #20 on: January 14, 2009, 10:02:03 PM »
The Oath of Office doesn't even include the workd God much less Christ:

http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#A2Sec1

"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

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Re: Will Rick Warren Invoke Christ?
« Reply #21 on: January 15, 2009, 01:21:43 AM »
The Oath of Office doesn't even include the workd God much less Christ:

http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#A2Sec1

"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."
what happened to the "so help me god" part

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Re: Will Rick Warren Invoke Christ?
« Reply #22 on: January 15, 2009, 07:27:15 AM »

Dos Equis

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Re: Will Rick Warren Invoke Christ?
« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2009, 10:14:31 AM »
Court Denies Atheists - Prayers OK at Inaugural

Friday, January 16, 2009 7:20 AM

WASHINGTON — A federal court has refused a plea from atheists to forbid prayers at President-elect Barack Obama's inauguration, including the use of "so help me God" at the end of his oath of office.

Judge Reggie Walton of the U.S. District Court in Washington denied the request Thursday for a temporary restraining order, said the American Humanist Association, which had sued on behalf of a number of individuals and organizations.

The judge ruled that the plaintiffs failed to prove a concrete harm that would occur and that he did not have authority over the Presidential Inaugural Committee because it is an independent entity and not a government agent, the group said.

Fred Edwords, communications director for the group that espouses ethical life "without theism," said the request for an order was a long shot because the full case had not been argued.

He said the suit would be pursued in coming months aimed at blocking the use of prayer at inaugurations in coming years. Obama will be sworn in as the 44th U.S. president on Tuesday.

Among other things, the group objected to the use of the phrase "so help me God" at the end of the presidential oath of office because the oath, as prescribed by the U.S. Constitution, does not include those words.

Historians dispute how it came to be used, some saying the words were added by George Washington at the first presidential inaugural in 1789.

The tradition "alienates millions of Americans who don't believe in a god," the group said.

Bob Ritter, co-counsel for the plaintiffs and attorney with the Appignani Humanist Legal Center, said the religious trappings violate the principle of the separation of church and state.

"The individual plaintiffs, who will be watching the inaugural either in person or on TV, are being denied their free exercise of religion rights by our government telling them that monotheism is the preferred religion in this country and that they are 'outsiders' or 'second-class citizens,'" he said.
 
http://www.newsmax.com/insidecover/atheists_inaugural_prayer/2009/01/16/172036.html

w8tlftr

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Re: Will Rick Warren Invoke Christ?
« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2009, 10:59:30 AM »
Good.

The choice to (or not to) invoke Christ should be a personal decision.