patent on oxymetholone

[QuakerOats]

theoretically has fictional character close to you ever went above 100mg a day ?

no reason to.

[Fatpanda]

no reason to.

science agrees. just wondered, as we have all read of the adrol rambos who swear by 200mg + a day. 

good stuff quaker.

whats this fictional character's numbers in the big 3 these days ?

[QuakerOats]

science agrees. just wondered, as we have all read of the adrol rambos who swear by 200mg + a day. 

good stuff quaker.

whats this fictional character's numbers in the big 3 these days ?

oh that's not to say there haven't been peoplwho take way more than that, i heard rumors of Cutler supposedly taking 7 a day, like i said they're rumors but you know how pros are, if a little is good a lot must be great.

[tbombz]

science agrees. just wondered, as we have all read of the adrol rambos who swear by 200mg + a day. 

good stuff quaker.

whats this fictional character's numbers in the big 3 these days ?

i would disgaree- science does not agree.

with androgens, more is better, at least for "bodybuilding" - not health.

i know of people, not even pros or amatuers or competitors, who have taken as many as 6 per day (300mg ). kid i knew in high school on the football team. squatted 5 plates and benched 4.

[Fatpanda]

i would disgaree- science does not agree.

with androgens, more is better, at least for "bodybuilding" - not health.

i know of people, not even pros or amatuers or competitors, who have taken as many as 6 per day (300mg ). kid i knew in high school on the football team. squatted 5 plates and benched 4.

 

it does agree in the case of anadrol - this is the one exception to that rule. i have studies to back this candy.

[tbombz]

it does agree in the case of anadrol - this is the one exception to that rule. i have studies to back this candy.

post em up

[QuakerOats]

i think tbombz is just saying what i was saying in that these are pro bb'ers we're talking about, they don't do anything moderately.

[Fatpanda]

post em up

Double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled phase III trial of oxymetholone for the treatment of HIV wasting.

ABSTRACT

Background: Despite highly active antiretroviral therapy (HAART), chronic involuntary weight loss of lean body mass (LBM) and body cell mass (BCM). still remains a serious problem in the care of HIV patients. Previous studies have been performed with androgen replacement therapy or treatment with recombinant growth hormone(rGH) showing partial restoration of LBM, but these treatments have largely not been assessed in eugonadal individuals.Study Design: Double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled trial of 89 HIV-positive women and men with wasting assigned to the anabolic steroid oxymetholone (50 mg BID or TID) or placebo for 16 weeks followed by open-label treatment.Results: Oxymetholone led to a significant weight gain of 3.0 ±0.5 and 3.5 ±0.7 kg in the TID and BID groups, respectively (p<0.05 for each treatment versus placebo), while individuals in the placebo group gained an average of 1.0 ±0.7 kg. Body cell mass increased in the oxymetholone BID group (3.8 ±0.4 kg; p<0.0001) and in the oxymetholone TID group (2.1 ±0.6 kg; p<0.005), corresponding to 12.4% and 7.4% of baseline BCM, respectively. The most important adverse event was liver-associated toxicity. Overall, 35% of patients in the TID, 27% of patients in the BID oxymetholone group and no patients the placebo group had a greater than 5 times baseline increase for ALT during the double-blind phase of the study.

Conclusions: Oxymetholone can be considered an effective anabolic steroidin eugonadal male and female patients with AIDS-associated wasting. The BID (100 mg/day) regimen appeared to be equally effective to the TID (150 mg/day) regimenin terms of weight gain, LBM and BCM and was associated with less, but still significant liver toxicity.

[Fatpanda]

i think tbombz is just saying what i was saying in that these are pro bb'ers we're talking about, they don't do anything moderately.

i agree, we all know guys who go crazy with little regard for health or even results.

[tbombz]

well thats interestign. but that studies really only says that in people with anemia who arent training ad have lower than normal muscle mass, 150 doesnt produce any noticeabl;e more gains than 100mg.

as far as trained bodybuilders with excess muscle already, maybe even in caloric defecit, im sure the higher dose does yeiled better results.


thats just the way these things work.

[Fatpanda]

i have another study that compares 50mg and 100mg.

the 100mg had double the strength increases, but only slightly better mass increases.

[Fatpanda]

well thats interestign. but that studies really only says that in people with anemia who arent training ad have lower than normal muscle mass, 150 doesnt produce any noticeabl;e more gains than 100mg.

as far as trained bodybuilders with excess muscle already, maybe even in caloric defecit, im sure the higher dose does yeiled better results.


thats just the way these things work.

you know i agree with you on this for most drugs, but not on this.

all drugs have a tipping point, this study shows me that the tipping point for adrol is 100mg.

[tbombz]

i just dont agree with you. andorgens may have a poitn at which the increases in benefits do not equal the price they are worth or the side effects they incur, however, simply speaking about increasing protien synthesis, response to training, lowering cortisol, etc etc etc... more will always be better with these drugs.

[Fatpanda]

i just dont agree with you. andorgens may have a poitn at which the increases in benefits do not equal the price they are worth or the side effects they incur, however, simply speaking about increasing protien synthesis, response to training, lowering cortisol, etc etc etc... more will always be better with these drugs.

only up to a point.

standard AR theory states there is a limit to how much steroid a body can use, due to a limited amount of receptors ( i am aware anadrol does not bind strongly to the AR, before you say it) but whatever mechanism it works via it will attach to some sort of receptor of which there will be a finite amount.

[benz]

for patent check http://www.uspto.gov/index.html

[Fatpanda]

for patent check http://www.uspto.gov/index.html

already did during my search benz, its not there 

[benz]

already did during my search benz, its not there 

prolly expired, in pharma stuff nothing last forever

[tbombz]

only up to a point.

standard AR theory states there is a limit to how much steroid a body can use, due to a limited amount of receptors ( i am aware anadrol does not bind strongly to the AR, before you say it) but whatever mechanism it works via it will attach to some sort of receptor of which there will be a finite amount.

all androgens work via the ar no nmatter the binding affinity

binding affinity is pretty much useless

for example


binding affinity refers to the "amount of binding" that takes place with any given androgen.  but, what mattes is not the quantity of the bind, but the quality. for exmaple, a androgen may bind tightly, and activate multiple genes, but if those arent good things for muscle growth, then thats a weak androgen. now, another androgen migt bind very loosely and only activate one ting, but if thats somethign that very strongly activates protein synthesis, then thats a STRONG androgen.


as for the ar theory, thats invalid, because ANDROGENS ARE INVOLVED WITH THE PRODUCTION OF AR. which means, the more androgens you put in more body, the more androgen receptors your body manufactores.

[io856]

prolly expired, in pharma stuff nothing last forever

Five years of monopoly/patent

Then its free market

Its to promote research and development

[io856]

as for the ar theory, thats invalid, because ANDROGENS ARE INVOLVED WITH THE PRODUCTION OF AR. which means, the more androgens you put in more body, the more androgen receptors your body manufactores.

Thats all good and well but;

How come results with dbol for example seem to taper off after 40-60mgs ED?

Van Bilderass would agree with that

[tbombz]

Thats all good and well but;

How come results with dbol for example seem to taper off after 40-60mgs ED?

Van Bilderass would agree that

i can only tell you that if results taper offf for you at 4-60mgs, then it may b because the steroid is getting converted by aromatase or alpha-2 reductase

[io856]

i can only tell you that if results taper offf for you at 4-60mgs, then it may b because the steroid is getting converted by aromatase or alpha-2 reductase

exactly... then how would extra androgens be stimulating AR production?

[tbombz]

exactly... then how would extra androgens be stimulating AR production?

good point.  probabaly need adex finasteride or soething like that

[Fatpanda]

Five years of monopoly/patent

Then its free market

Its to promote research and development

any ideas on oxymetholone then ?

all androgens work via the ar no nmatter the binding affinity

binding affinity is pretty much useless

for example


binding affinity refers to the "amount of binding" that takes place with any given androgen.  but, what mattes is not the quantity of the bind, but the quality. for exmaple, a androgen may bind tightly, and activate multiple genes, but if those arent good things for muscle growth, then thats a weak androgen. now, another androgen migt bind very loosely and only activate one ting, but if thats somethign that very strongly activates protein synthesis, then thats a STRONG androgen.


as for the ar theory, thats invalid, because ANDROGENS ARE INVOLVED WITH THE PRODUCTION OF AR. which means, the more androgens you put in more body, the more androgen receptors your body manufactores.

that does not make the AR theory invalid  

[io856]

any ideas on oxymetholone then ?

that does not make the AR theory invalid   

dude... oxymetholone was released in 1960...