Author Topic: I.O.U.S.A. movie...?  (Read 4776 times)

Soul Crusher

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Re: I.O.U.S.A. movie...?
« Reply #50 on: January 03, 2009, 01:32:53 PM »
Funny considering in my neighborhood alone we have more illegal irish than in any part of the world.


What are all those people fleeing???? 

big L dawg

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Re: I.O.U.S.A. movie...?
« Reply #51 on: January 03, 2009, 03:19:31 PM »
...Europe (the European Union of EU) has 500 million people. Population does NOT explain America's wealth disparity. A lack of social spending does.

Europe's 500 million people have rebuilt a bombed and blitzed continent from rubble, with loans from the USA, which have been paid back in full. Meanwhile America, having never been invaded; bombed or bankrupted has squandered every opportunity. America is vehemently capitalist... the success in Europe is centred around countries so socialist Americans would (erroneously) deem them communist.

Some think Food Stamps are a symptom of a chronically lazy; entitled and coddled underclass (translation: urban black people). This is far from the truth. The way I see it, the need for a Food stamp Program is the proof positive that America's benefit system is inadequate.

You see endemic laziness... I see a population reduced to penury which is now on the brink of starvation.

Who is seeing the big picture and who is indulging his lazy prejudices?

...the EU has 23 different official languages. How homogeneous is that? 15% of Sweden's population (for example) are non-nationals (not born in Sweden).

Here in Ireland we opened our borders to migrant workers during the housing boom, within a year 500,000 immigrants had moved to Ireland increasing our population from 4m to 4.5m... could America tolerate an influx of Polish equal to 10% of the population?

Again, lack of proper socialist policies has created the "underclass" you refer to. To eliminate such a disparity you need MORE social spending (better schools; better unions; better benefits), not less.

...that's a strange way of looking at it.

The way I see it an entrenched cleptocratic corpocracy has worked very hard to slowly siphon off America's wealth and prevent any proper wealth redistribution: essentially instituting a quasi-neo-feudalism... reducing a society of equals to two distinct classes: serfs and aristocrats.

America now has an appalling wealth disparity; chronic lack of opportunity (poor education and restricted social mobility) and an institutional underclass.

Blaming the victims is exactly what those who benefit from this two-tier status quo want.

Again, this situation can only be fixed by significantly higher taxes and more social spending.

...and who benefits from this?

Blaming the unions doesn't explain why most other westernized countries spent far more on education per capita than America does? The "Greedy Teachers" argument rings hollow.

...Agreed. But the bulk of the waste is in the form of tax cuts for corporations and the super rich and military spending. Social spending is not necessarily waste.

...if the money was ring-fenced (like Germany does) this wouldn't be an issue. But it wasn't.

If you think this money was squandered on the poor and your education system you are misguided... Vietnam; Korea; the Cold War; Iraq; Afghanistan; the so-called Wars on Drugs and Terrorism, these are your culprits.


Why are Americans so frightened of the system that has allowed so many backwater countries to overtake them in the last 50 years?

Is it the word "socialism" itself? Could we rename it "Obamism"? ..."Jebusism"?

..."Patriotism"?



The Luke

The Luke doing some serious owning there
DAWG

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Re: I.O.U.S.A. movie...?
« Reply #52 on: January 03, 2009, 03:51:48 PM »
The Luke doing some serious owning there

Yeah if you want to be a ward of the state.

Luke is not an american and lives in a tiny little spec of a country and thinks he knows the deal in the USA???  Please.

People in this country are already overtaxed and he thinks we need to tax them more???? 

Yeah, brilliance for sure.

big L dawg

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Re: I.O.U.S.A. movie...?
« Reply #53 on: January 03, 2009, 03:56:05 PM »
Yeah if you want to be a ward of the state.

Luke is not an american and lives in a tiny little spec of a country and thinks he knows the deal in the USA???  Please.

People in this country are already overtaxed and he thinks we need to tax them more???? 

Yeah, brilliance for sure.

His rebuttals usually are more in detail and more researched.yours only seem very Bias and skewwed for the most part.
DAWG

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Re: I.O.U.S.A. movie...?
« Reply #54 on: January 03, 2009, 04:09:16 PM »
I am biased, as is everyone.  His bias is for socialism and for high taxes.  You have your own bias as well.

Mine is for lower taxes and freedom along the lines of what the founding fathers wanted for this country.  They left Europe and started this nation for the very reason he states. 

I personally prefer freedom over equality. 

Luke is not an American has no clue about what are problems really are.  He is in Ireland and is spouting all sorts of nonsense as to why we should be more like Europe.  I do not pretend to know what is best for Europe since I am not European. 

He did not even watch the movie!


Additionally, his garbage postings are nonsensical. 

On the one hand he says we are being overtaken by China, who has less regulations, less labor laws, less environmental restrictions, etc, yet wants to prescribe for the USA more taxes, more regulation, and more restrictions as a cure to our problems?????

It makes no sense.

Anyone in business in this country will tell you that the biggest problems we have are the high costs of regulation, labor regs, taxes, etc.

We need to go back to what worked in this country, not what may work for other countries.


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Re: I.O.U.S.A. movie...?
« Reply #55 on: January 04, 2009, 10:43:44 AM »

...okay, you guys are right.

Wonder if you guys can explain why Germany; France; Norway; Sweden; Finland are NOT bankrupt?


The Luke

France:

Prime Minister Francois Fillon caused a stir last week when he said the nation was "in a situation of bankruptcy" after decades of accumulated budget deficits and called for a change in mindset. Minister keeping the faith despite France's 'bankruptcy' rumours.


The news reaching the desk of Christine Lagarde at the French ministry of economy, finance, and employment is dreadful, and getting worse by the month. The budget deficit is ballooning to €42bn. The trade deficit is smashing records. Business confidence has fallen to its lowest in five years.

The euro is now hugely overvalued for France, though not for Germany. It is hammering French luxury exports and forcing Airbus to mull yet another €1bn of cuts.Her own prime minister blurted out last Friday that France was now "bankrupt", with no chance of halting its relentless slide down the global growth league unless there is a drastic change of course.

"I am at the head of a state that for 15 years has been in chronic deficit. I am at the head of a state that has not once passed a balanced budget in 25 years. This can't go on," he said. If that was not enough, Jean-Claude Trichet, the president of the European Central Bank, more or less said over the weekend that the country had become a basket case.



The Luke

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Re: I.O.U.S.A. movie...?
« Reply #56 on: January 04, 2009, 11:07:25 AM »
I think you guys are confusing the French definition of bankrupt with your own.

If France can be described as "bankrupt", then the USA is "destitute".



The Luke

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Re: I.O.U.S.A. movie...?
« Reply #57 on: January 04, 2009, 11:34:50 AM »
I think you guys are confusing the French definition of bankrupt with your own.

If France can be described as "bankrupt", then the USA is "destitute".



The Luke

What is the french defintion of bankrupt? What word do/should they use when/if they really are bankrupt?

Fury

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Re: I.O.U.S.A. movie...?
« Reply #58 on: January 04, 2009, 11:50:10 AM »
I think you guys are confusing the French definition of bankrupt with your own.

If France can be described as "bankrupt", then the USA is "destitute".



The Luke

I think you're confusing the definition of "trying to save face" and "admitting you're wrong."

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Re: I.O.U.S.A. movie...?
« Reply #59 on: January 04, 2009, 12:13:38 PM »


...if the American food industry was regulated as tightly as the Germans are regulating the European food supply then the average American would be maybe 20 or 30 lbs lighter and 3 or 4 IQ points smarter.



What kind of regulation in the food industry are the Germans using and the Americans not using, that would see Americans 20 or 30 pounds lighter and make their IQ's go up if they adapted the same?

Eyeball Chambers

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Re: I.O.U.S.A. movie...?
« Reply #60 on: January 04, 2009, 12:23:54 PM »
France:

Prime Minister Francois Fillon caused a stir last week when he said the nation was "in a situation of bankruptcy" after decades of accumulated budget deficits and called for a change in mindset. Minister keeping the faith despite France's 'bankruptcy' rumours.


The news reaching the desk of Christine Lagarde at the French ministry of economy, finance, and employment is dreadful, and getting worse by the month. The budget deficit is ballooning to €42bn. The trade deficit is smashing records. Business confidence has fallen to its lowest in five years.

The euro is now hugely overvalued for France, though not for Germany. It is hammering French luxury exports and forcing Airbus to mull yet another €1bn of cuts.Her own prime minister blurted out last Friday that France was now "bankrupt", with no chance of halting its relentless slide down the global growth league unless there is a drastic change of course.

"I am at the head of a state that for 15 years has been in chronic deficit. I am at the head of a state that has not once passed a balanced budget in 25 years. This can't go on," he said. If that was not enough, Jean-Claude Trichet, the president of the European Central Bank, more or less said over the weekend that the country had become a basket case.

BOOOOOOOOOOOOM!
S

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Re: I.O.U.S.A. movie...?
« Reply #61 on: January 04, 2009, 05:29:24 PM »
What kind of regulation in the food industry are the Germans using and the Americans not using, that would see Americans 20 or 30 pounds lighter and make their IQ's go up if they adapted the same?

...transfats, modified vegetable oils and a couple of other ingredients. Bigger discussion than is appropriate here. Type: "nutricide" into Youtube or Google.

What is the french defintion of bankrupt? What word do/should they use when/if they really are bankrupt?

I think you're confusing the definition of "trying to save face" and "admitting you're wrong."

...Okay, again with the "I'm American, educate me!"

France has very low wealth disparity... America has huge wealth disparity, meaning much more than half of  Americans are worse off than the averages indicate.

The French people have personal savings... America has a severe savings deficit.

France is a member of the Eurozone (euro currency), meaning their currency is also backed by Europe's largest and most financially sound economy, Germany (one of the highest savings rates; creditor rates; GDP etc etc)... meanwhile many commentators (Peter Schiff; Max Keiser; Jim Rogers etc) are convinced the Almighty Greenback is well on it's way to the fiat currency graveyard.

France's banking sector is tightly regulated they have essentially NO defaulting mortgages, and they had no housing/real estate bubble... America has a grossly inflated housing market which needs to deflate to approx 40% of the height-of-bubble maximum prices; this is compounded by the stampeding din of impending AltA and Option Arm defaults when the teaser rates readjust. This crash will be 150% the size of the Sub Prime mess.

France's yearly budget deficit is €60 billion, that's approx €1,000 per garlic eating Frenchman.

America's yearly budget deficit is $455 billion, that's approx $1,500 per Ahmuriken.


Guess which country has a larger national debt?

France's National Debt is approx €1.6 trillion, that's approx €27,000 per cheese eating surrender monkey.

America's Nationa Debt is approx $13 trillion, that's approx $45,000 per redneck.


I could go on...and on... and on... and on... and on... but there comes a point when American's have to admit to themselves they really don't know enough about the rest of the world to be so sure that the USA is really number 1!

 
Also, France is beautiful and it's people are skinny.


The Luke   

Mark Kerr

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Re: I.O.U.S.A. movie...?
« Reply #62 on: January 04, 2009, 07:20:49 PM »
...transfats, modified vegetable oils and a couple of other ingredients. Bigger discussion than is appropriate here. Type: "nutricide" into Youtube or Google.

...Okay, again with the "I'm American, educate me!"

France has very low wealth disparity... America has huge wealth disparity, meaning much more than half of  Americans are worse off than the averages indicate.

The French people have personal savings... America has a severe savings deficit.

France is a member of the Eurozone (euro currency), meaning their currency is also backed by Europe's largest and most financially sound economy, Germany (one of the highest savings rates; creditor rates; GDP etc etc)... meanwhile many commentators (Peter Schiff; Max Keiser; Jim Rogers etc) are convinced the Almighty Greenback is well on it's way to the fiat currency graveyard.

France's banking sector is tightly regulated they have essentially NO defaulting mortgages, and they had no housing/real estate bubble... America has a grossly inflated housing market which needs to deflate to approx 40% of the height-of-bubble maximum prices; this is compounded by the stampeding din of impending AltA and Option Arm defaults when the teaser rates readjust. This crash will be 150% the size of the Sub Prime mess.

France's yearly budget deficit is €60 billion, that's approx €1,000 per garlic eating Frenchman.

America's yearly budget deficit is $455 billion, that's approx $1,500 per Ahmuriken.


Guess which country has a larger national debt?

France's National Debt is approx €1.6 trillion, that's approx €27,000 per cheese eating surrender monkey.

America's Nationa Debt is approx $13 trillion, that's approx $45,000 per redneck.


I could go on...and on... and on... and on... and on... but there comes a point when American's have to admit to themselves they really don't know enough about the rest of the world to be so sure that the USA is really number 1!

 
Also, France is beautiful and it's people are skinny.


The Luke   


You're a fvcking idiot. ::)

The Luke

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Re: I.O.U.S.A. movie...?
« Reply #63 on: January 04, 2009, 07:37:35 PM »
You're a fvcking idiot. ::)

The USA's national debt is roughly $13 trillion, and there are approximately 300 million Americans...

$13,000,000,000,000 divided by 300,000,000 is about $43.3k


Do it yourself:
13,000,000,000,000 divided by 300,000,000...

...cancel the zeroes:
13,000,000,000,000 divided by 300,000,000

...is $130,000 divided by 3 = approx $45,000 per person.


The maths is sound... and pretty straightforward... or were you taking unction at being labeled a redneck?



The Luke

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Re: I.O.U.S.A. movie...?
« Reply #64 on: January 04, 2009, 07:59:58 PM »
...transfats, modified vegetable oils and a couple of other ingredients. Bigger discussion than is appropriate here. Type: "nutricide" into Youtube or Google.

...Okay, again with the "I'm American, educate me!"

France has very low wealth disparity... America has huge wealth disparity, meaning much more than half of  Americans are worse off than the averages indicate.

The French people have personal savings... America has a severe savings deficit.

France is a member of the Eurozone (euro currency), meaning their currency is also backed by Europe's largest and most financially sound economy, Germany (one of the highest savings rates; creditor rates; GDP etc etc)... meanwhile many commentators (Peter Schiff; Max Keiser; Jim Rogers etc) are convinced the Almighty Greenback is well on it's way to the fiat currency graveyard.

France's banking sector is tightly regulated they have essentially NO defaulting mortgages, and they had no housing/real estate bubble... America has a grossly inflated housing market which needs to deflate to approx 40% of the height-of-bubble maximum prices; this is compounded by the stampeding din of impending AltA and Option Arm defaults when the teaser rates readjust. This crash will be 150% the size of the Sub Prime mess.

France's yearly budget deficit is €60 billion, that's approx €1,000 per garlic eating Frenchman.

America's yearly budget deficit is $455 billion, that's approx $1,500 per Ahmuriken.


Guess which country has a larger national debt?

France's National Debt is approx €1.6 trillion, that's approx €27,000 per cheese eating surrender monkey.

America's Nationa Debt is approx $13 trillion, that's approx $45,000 per redneck.


I could go on...and on... and on... and on... and on... but there comes a point when American's have to admit to themselves they really don't know enough about the rest of the world to be so sure that the USA is really number 1!

 
Also, France is beautiful and it's people are skinny.


The Luke   

Why don't you go and correct Prime Minister Francois Fillon, who knows maybe you'll get a job.  ;D

Eyeball Chambers

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Re: I.O.U.S.A. movie...?
« Reply #65 on: January 04, 2009, 09:58:14 PM »
The United States has enjoyed tremendous success due to are capitalist system.  Our recent socialist "ways" have put us in a sad economic state. 

Our country is still home to some of the best Schools in the world, top scientists, most cutting edge technology, and culture.

The EU is a great place to visit, everyone there seems to have reached the same mediocre level of success.  In no way does it surpass the United States though.
 ;D

You never know what will happen down the road though, especially considering the traitors who are determining our countries future.  >:(

 
S

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Re: I.O.U.S.A. movie...?
« Reply #66 on: January 04, 2009, 11:35:09 PM »
we dont' have to worry about 1 country toppling us.
we do have to worry about the power of a china-russia-venez alliance.

they have iran in their little bed now, and cuba too.  and that's just the start.  iraq signed with china for the oil, add them to the list.

combined, they could cut off 60-80% of oil and most of our $ borrowing on the same day, if they wanted.  And a few of them could drop the dollar at once, turning our 401ks into toilet paper.

So it's not one country we should worry about.  It's all of them ganging up, believing it'll be way easier for them to gain without us around. 


Soul Crusher

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Re: I.O.U.S.A. movie...?
« Reply #67 on: January 05, 2009, 05:12:48 AM »
We at least used to favor freesom here, not equality. 

I dont want everyone equal in terms of wealth. 

People are free to succeed or fail.  If you want a system where there is little success or little failure stay where you are.

Our country was founded on principles opposite to that of Europe. 



 

Eyeball Chambers

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Re: I.O.U.S.A. movie...?
« Reply #68 on: January 05, 2009, 12:43:33 PM »
We at least used to favor freesom here, not equality. 

I dont want everyone equal in terms of wealth. 

People are free to succeed or fail.  If you want a system where there is little success or little failure stay where you are.

Our country was founded on principles opposite to that of Europe. 

Good post
S

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Re: I.O.U.S.A. movie...?
« Reply #69 on: January 05, 2009, 01:50:01 PM »
Our country was founded on principles opposite to that of Europe. 

...this is a good observation, but it misses the fact that Europe is no longer a feudal serfs/paupers system. Two hundred years ago this might have been true, no longer.

Seeing as Europe has a much lower wealth disparity than the US does, it could be pointed out that America is closer to a feudal system now than Europe is...?

Not to mention the fact that the wealthy ruling cleptocratic class in the US is indeed socialist: bank bailouts; auto-maker bailouts; credit card company bailouts; ethanol manufacturers bailout; steel industry bailouts.... isn't this socialism for the rich?


Do any of the guys shouting me down here have any idea how far America has slipped down the rankings since 1950?



The Luke

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Re: I.O.U.S.A. movie...?
« Reply #70 on: January 05, 2009, 01:56:49 PM »
...this is a good observation, but it misses the fact that Europe is no longer a feudal serfs/paupers system. Two hundred years ago this might have been true, no longer.

Seeing as Europe has a much lower wealth disparity than the US does, it could be pointed out that America is closer to a feudal system now than Europe is...?

Not to mention the fact that the wealthy ruling cleptocratic class in the US is indeed socialist: bank bailouts; auto-maker bailouts; credit card company bailouts; ethanol manufacturers bailout; steel industry bailouts.... isn't this socialism for the rich?


Do any of the guys shouting me down here have any idea how far America has slipped down the rankings since 1950?



The Luke

We have slipped because we have gone away from individual responsibility and freedom to a huge Nanny State, like in Europe, where the government has its hand in literally every shit you take since they regulate toilet bowls, tax toilet paper, and tax water consumption.

I dont care about wealth disparity if its done through free market principles.  However, we have something very different.  We have a corrupt government that favors the rich and very poor at the expense of the working middle class taxpayer. 

We have morphed into what the founding fathers of this country rebeled and had a revolution against.

Its time for another one very soon.   

Eyeball Chambers

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Re: I.O.U.S.A. movie...?
« Reply #71 on: January 05, 2009, 02:06:14 PM »
Do any of the guys shouting me down here have any idea how far America has slipped down the rankings since 1950?

I'm sure everyone in this thread realizes that we've slipped dramatically since the 1950's.  That's the point.  We we're furthest from current European style policy in the 1950's.  8)
S

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Re: I.O.U.S.A. movie...?
« Reply #72 on: January 05, 2009, 02:11:36 PM »
Here is another thing you need to consider:

Most Americans know that the government absolutely sucks at delivering quality services at a decent cost to the taxpayer.

Whether you go to the DMV, the Post Office, the police station, traffic court, etc, you are treated rudely by uncivil servants who treat the taxpayer as the enemy. 

These are not the people who are going to administer or run a decent medical system or other plan you so seem in favor of. 

Additionally, people like yourself seem to think that the same government to screwed up Katrina, Iraq, and cant keep track of 20 million illegal aliens are somehow going to effectively run a medical system????

Are you out of your mind??? 

We need drastically less government, not more.       

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Re: I.O.U.S.A. movie...?
« Reply #73 on: January 05, 2009, 03:09:00 PM »
I dont care about wealth disparity if its done through free market principles. 

...I think that might be the root of the problem.

America can't remain a cohesive society during a tough recession if such wealth disparity persists. Civility ends when people start to go hungry.

Most Americans know that the government absolutely sucks at delivering quality services at a decent cost to the taxpayer.

...This is a misconception.

France delivers a better healthcare system (and all-inclusive too) than any other country in the world and does it for a fraction of what Americans spend to have a crappy semi-inclusive system. So obviously it can be done.

Again, who benefits?

The same people who make huge profits from the privatisation of America lobby and pressure the American government to cut funding and otherwise sabotage state agencies in order that they can more easily convince Americans that government itself is the problem.

It's always the same pattern:

Failing state function paralleled by a shadow corporate monopoly which actively sabotages government efforts to erode either their monopoly or profits.

Healthcare:
...the private sector healthcare monopolies, the HMO's, skim the profits and pass the costly patients on to the state service which then becomes unable to cope. The HMO's take all the healthy young people and dump those unable to get coverage (the poor; invalid; handicapped; old etc) onto the state system while simultaneously lobbying Congress to undercut the funding of the state system. HMO's have record profits, the taxpayer gets screwed. Americans then blame the state system.

War:
...the private sector war monopolies Blackwater/Haliburton skim huge profits during wartime at the expense of the state sector, the American military. They actively place politicians in office that will encourage conflicts for them to profit from (Cheney; Bush; Rumsfeld; Guliani etc), and when these engineered fundraiser conflicts do erupt these monopolies actively prolong them... in Iraq for example Blackwater troops have been exempted from the Geneva Convention and any possible criminal prosecution so that they can more easily perpetrate the atrocities necessary to inflame Muslim groups.

Stock Market:
...the SEC (Securities Exchange Comission) is essentially a captured regulator. The SEC is grossly underfunded and overworked because the large investment groups want less regulation in order to better manipulate their Pozi schemes. They offer mega-salary jobs to SEC investigators once they leave the SEC, so long as they never investigated any of the big boys. That's why none of the Bailout Boys were found out till the market collapsed... that's why Bernie Maddoff wasn't found out till a French Bank discovered the discrepancies (France has a highly regulated fund system). Now, with the market in ruins and the speculators bankrupt the taxpayer is being tapped to bail them out.


Seriously guys... it's time to drop the superficial ideologies and look at the big picture.

"Smaller government!"
"Capitalism not socialism!"
"No welfare state!"
"No socialised healthcare!"

These are propaganda soundbites designed to encourage a reactionary, unthinking dismissal of big picture thinking... ask yourself, who benefits from your autonomic refusal to consider the wider picture?

Isn't it obviously the self same people who try so hard to make you think that way?



The Luke