Author Topic: Coming off cycle SUCKS (Read 6515 times)

shmay · « **on:** January 06, 2009, 05:02:01 PM »

So its been about 6 weeks since my last shot. I tapered down with Prop for 4 weeks after the Enth and ran PCT for 4 weeks (Nolva HCG etc). As far as I can tell, did everything right.

But man, I still feel like CRAP! Very tired, Zero sex drive (insert angry gf here) and no energy at the gym.

Normally it doesn't take this long for me to get back on track and I did a relatively light cycle (14 weeks of Test @ 650 and 40 mg Dbol for 4 weeks).

Do you guys find it takes this long for your natural levels to return? I feel like something must be wrong....

Thoughts appreciated

Emmortal · « **Reply #1 on:** January 06, 2009, 05:19:57 PM »

No clomid? Nolva never really brought me back as quickly as Clomid did which is why I stopped using it in PCT. I know a lot of guys don't like Clomid but most run way too much of it. 50mgs is enough to get test levels in the 600+ range.

4thAD · « **Reply #2 on:** January 06, 2009, 05:20:16 PM »

Did you run HCG during your cycle? This will help with recovery, and IMO you need more pct than just nolva for four weeks.

shmay · « **Reply #3 on:** January 06, 2009, 05:22:33 PM »

I ran HCG at 300 iu twice a week for the full cycle.

You think I should have taken Nolva for Longer or at a higher dosage?

I took 30mg/d for 2 weeks then 20 mg/d for 2 weeks

4thAD · « **Reply #4 on:** January 06, 2009, 05:25:44 PM »

Quote from: shmay on January 06, 2009, 05:22:33 PM

I ran HCG at 300 iu twice a week for the full cycle.

You think I should have taken Nolva for Longer or at a higher dosage?

I took 30mg/d for 2 weeks then 20 mg/d for 2 weeks

Run another PCT! 25mg clomid week 1-3 and aromasin @25mg for six weeks. I used to use nolva and swore by it, but I have recovered much better with clomid in recent times. The aromasin will kick up your natty test.

tbombz · « **Reply #5 on:** January 06, 2009, 05:28:26 PM »

Quote from: 4thAD on January 06, 2009, 05:25:44 PM

Run another PCT! 25mg clomid week 1-3 and aromasin @25mg for six weeks. I used to use nolva and swore by it, but I have recovered much better with clomid in recent times. The aromasin will kick up your natty test.

might as well run 50mg clomid and a mg adex per day.

4thAD · « **Reply #6 on:** January 06, 2009, 05:31:31 PM »

Quote from: tbombz on January 06, 2009, 05:28:26 PM

might as well run 50mg clomid and a mg adex per day.

The problem with adex is it will affect liver values, and IGF which is what you dont want during PCT. Adex will work, but is not optimal in PCT. Aromasin has been shown not to affect igf, or liver values.

Emmortal · « **Reply #7 on:** January 06, 2009, 05:32:32 PM »

Quote from: 4thAD on January 06, 2009, 05:31:31 PM

The problem with adex is it will affect liver values, and IGF which is what you dont want during PCT. Adex will work, but is not optimal in PCT. Aromasin has been shown not to affect igf, or liver values.

Adex is a little easier to get ahold, of at least comapred to legit Aromasin. It will "work" but as you said not optimal.

Captain Equipoise · « **Reply #8 on:** January 07, 2009, 02:41:48 AM »

I'm in the same boat, starting to run HCG and clomid now :S

hopefully will be back to good in 2 weeks or so, going to run HCG at 1000iu's EOD for a week or two, clomid @ 50mg.

tolliscd · « **Reply #9 on:** January 07, 2009, 05:15:27 AM »

Listen carefully my fellow getbiggers. NEVER, i repeat NEVER come off a cycle. Until you die you should be pinning.

Arnold jr · « **Reply #10 on:** January 07, 2009, 08:44:08 AM »

Quote from: shmay on January 06, 2009, 05:02:01 PM

So its been about 6 weeks since my last shot. I tapered down with Prop for 4 weeks after the Enth and ran PCT for 4 weeks (Nolva HCG etc). As far as I can tell, did everything right.

But man, I still feel like CRAP! Very tired, Zero sex drive (insert angry gf here) and no energy at the gym.

Normally it doesn't take this long for me to get back on track and I did a relatively light cycle (14 weeks of Test @ 650 and 40 mg Dbol for 4 weeks).

Do you guys find it takes this long for your natural levels to return? I feel like something must be wrong....

Thoughts appreciated

Here's the thing most people don't seem to understand or maybe they just don't want to, lol!

When you run a cycle, any cycle and shut yourself down, PCT does not fix the problem...not possible...not to the level some guys seem to think it will.

Yes you should run a PCT, and it should be a good one, but PCT does not replace "TIME." A 12-16wk run of exogenous test, it can take some men 8-12 months for their bodies to return to normal, I'm talking 100% normal after use...assuming no other drugs were used during the off time. Compound that with regular usage and you should see my point.

But like I said, a good PCT does help...and yes it helps a lot. Like Emmortal and 4th mentioned, clomid is the better choice IMO. Personally I like both nolva and clomid in my PCT...some say this is overkill but it seems to work well for me.

My PCT has been the same for awhile now:

10 straight days of HCG, 1000iu/ed, followed by roughly 5wks, maybe 6wks of a combo of nolva and clomid...usually start with clomid, eventually add in nolva and then finish with just nolva.

BTW, your PCT was too mild.

Big Rock. · « **Reply #11 on:** January 07, 2009, 11:07:58 AM »

A.J.,
As far as the HCG goes, how long after your last shot do you start ? I've been trying to decide weather or not to just run a lite dose (250-300iu's 2x per week) for the entire cycle, or perhaps just for PCT as you mentioned above.

The tenative plan is for 750mg Sust., and 300mg Deca, (split Mon,Wed,Fri.) so I was considering maybe HCG sub-q on Tues., Thurs.. That way I know after 16wks, I'll be good and tired of being a dart board...

Just thinking out loud, being in the mid-40's, I'd like to keep the boys hangin' as much as possible...

Would like to have all my ducks in a row before I begin... Thanx.

Arnold jr · « **Reply #12 on:** January 07, 2009, 12:31:06 PM »

Quote from: Big Rock. on January 07, 2009, 11:07:58 AM

A.J.,
As far as the HCG goes, how long after your last shot do you start ? I've been trying to decide weather or not to just run a lite dose (250-300iu's 2x per week) for the entire cycle, or perhaps just for PCT as you mentioned above.

The tenative plan is for 750mg Sust., and 300mg Deca, (split Mon,Wed,Fri.) so I was considering maybe HCG sub-q on Tues., Thurs.. That way I know after 16wks, I'll be good and tired of being a dart board...

Just thinking out loud, being in the mid-40's, I'd like to keep the boys hangin' as much as possible...

Would like to have all my ducks in a row before I begin... Thanx.

For PCT, I when I start the HCG depends on if I ended with long or short esters, i.e. prop or enanthate, etc. If I end with all short esters I start HCG usually 2-3 days after my last injection. If I end with longer esters I start HCG 10-14 days after last injection.

You know I've gone back and forth for years on HCG use. I used to always use use it only for PCT, then for several years I used it during my cycles. In more recent years I've been back to using it only post cycle.

At this point, for a successful PCT, to get the most out of it I can, I am convinced that it does need to be used as part of the PCT plan. However, for long cycles, anything getting over the 16wk mark, I've begun to think that I would be better served to run some HCG on cycle as well...not the entire time necessarily, but definitely part of the time.

Mega Man · « **Reply #13 on:** January 07, 2009, 01:05:58 PM »

after pct...can you repeat it again say two months later to give you natural test an extra kick again...just to be safe?

The ChemistV2 · « **Reply #14 on:** January 07, 2009, 01:10:48 PM »

I constantly read threads like this this and I'm amazed people are willing to endure months of having low hormone levels, low libido, energy and mood just so they can have bigger muscles for a few months. It's one thing if you're a pro athlete and you're getting paid millions of dollars to go through that. I just don't see the point of feeling crappy for months on end just so you can be "big".

Mega Man · « **Reply #15 on:** January 07, 2009, 01:13:33 PM »

Quote from: The ChemistV2 on January 07, 2009, 01:10:48 PM

I constantly read threads like this this and I'm amazed people are willing to endure months of having low hormone levels, low libido, energy and mood just so they can have bigger muscles for a few months. It's one thing if you're a pro athlete and you're getting paid millions of dollars to go through that. I just don't see the point of feeling crappy for months on end just so you can be "big".

I agree! I'm on my second cycle now....but I think it gonna be my last! But I plan on running HCG and clomid a couple times a year forever, to keep my natural test levels high as possible even if it's above normal....that way my levels will be high longer than normal people as long as possible.!

The ChemistV2 · « **Reply #16 on:** January 07, 2009, 01:21:28 PM »

Quote from: Mega Man on January 07, 2009, 01:13:33 PM

I agree! I'm on my second cycle now....but I think it gonna be my last! But I plan on running HCG and clomid a couple times a year forever, to keep my natural test levels high as possible even if it's above normal....that way my levels will be high longer than normal people as long as possible.!

I've had friends who blew up pretty big just doing some winstrol tabs for 6 weeks or so. They go off..keep most of their gains and bounce back hormone wise pretty quick. But when you do long test, deca cycles you suppress yourself way more and way longer..and you lose more in the long run. I think a guy, who doesn't plan on competing, can make plenty of gains doing some light cycles several times a year and keep more gains with less sides than these guys running the "standard Bro" 500mg test 400mg deca cycles.

4thAD · « **Reply #17 on:** January 07, 2009, 01:32:41 PM »

I'm a big proponent of light cycles. I always have been. I have run cycles on the heavy side, but I have to agree with you I feel so much better on the light cycles.

DIVISION · « **Reply #18 on:** January 07, 2009, 01:37:20 PM »

Quote from: shmay on January 06, 2009, 05:02:01 PM

So its been about 6 weeks since my last shot. I tapered down with Prop for 4 weeks after the Enth and ran PCT for 4 weeks (Nolva HCG etc). As far as I can tell, did everything right.

But man, I still feel like CRAP! Very tired, Zero sex drive (insert angry gf here) and no energy at the gym.

Normally it doesn't take this long for me to get back on track and I did a relatively light cycle (14 weeks of Test @ 650 and 40 mg Dbol for 4 weeks).

Do you guys find it takes this long for your natural levels to return? I feel like something must be wrong....

Thoughts appreciated

It sounds like you tapered off right, but next time might want to taper down longer than four weeks perhaps.

Next time might also want to use HCG during the cycle and see if that helps out for PCT.

Get a blood panel and see exactly where you are at.

DIV

Arnold jr · « **Reply #19 on:** January 07, 2009, 02:36:23 PM »

Quote from: Mega Man on January 07, 2009, 01:13:33 PM

I agree! I'm on my second cycle now....but I think it gonna be my last! But I plan on running HCG and clomid a couple times a year forever, to keep my natural test levels high as possible even if it's above normal....that way my levels will be high longer than normal people as long as possible.!

I would think twice before doing this. Those items don't have a place in a gym bag if you're not a AAS user...especially the HCG. With HCG use like that you can actually do more harm then good.

Rimbaud · « **Reply #20 on:** January 07, 2009, 02:37:49 PM »

Quote from: Arnold jr on January 07, 2009, 02:36:23 PM

I would think twice before doing this. Those items don't have a place in a gym bag if you're not a AAS user...especially the HCG. With HCG use like that you can actually do more harm then good.

Agreed.

Mega Man · « **Reply #21 on:** January 07, 2009, 02:56:11 PM »

What about just Clomid? It's not suppresive like HCG can be....just boosts natural test?

tbombz · « **Reply #22 on:** January 07, 2009, 04:22:51 PM »

Quote from: The ChemistV2 on January 07, 2009, 01:10:48 PM

I constantly read threads like this this and I'm amazed people are willing to endure months of having low hormone levels, low libido, energy and mood just so they can have bigger muscles for a few months. It's one thing if you're a pro athlete and you're getting paid millions of dollars to go through that. I just don't see the point of feeling crappy for months on end just so you can be "big".

well its stupid to go big and heavy for a long time then come off for a long time. what was the poin of that cycle? i think a moderate dose for a long time is much better than these "blast cycles" wit last for a month or two then the guy comes off for a month or two. use half as much and use it non stop. much better much more psychologically healthy.

Mr. Jingles · « **Reply #23 on:** January 07, 2009, 05:12:28 PM »

My experience totally sucks, My man 4thAD hooked me up, a true brother of IRON!!! I'm going back on this week with just a low dose of Test, clomid and HCG. Then I'm hitting it again. Once your on for a long time and come down you'd better be willing to ride it out like the men said. I'm not prepared to sit for 8 to 12 months..

Listen to these guys,, most truly care and lay it out for us if we want to hear it or not!!

Unless they hammer you for naked photos of your gf.......lol

Peace
Mr. Bo Jangles

Happy New Year!!!

shmay · « **Reply #24 on:** January 07, 2009, 05:15:48 PM »

Thanks for the input guys.

Div, I took 300 ius twice a week for the duration of the cycle. think I should have taken in through PCT as well?

ANything I can do at this point? I've got some aromasin left, so I was thinking I could take 20mg/day for another couple weeks until it runs out.

For next time, what would you propose. Definitely don't want to go through this again.