overtraining

[tbombz]

the sad part is if I saw you in my gym I'd bet everything in my pocket that you wer'nt on gear

and you would be right because i was not on gear and i was 17

[WillGrant]

overtraining for the most part is not a reality for most trainers.

Wrong..CNS fatique is also real..please dont quote another study either cos most of the time they mean jack shit in the real world... in study like conditions everything = perfect..to many varibles in the real world..

[tbombz]

Wrong..CNS fatique is also real..please dont quote another study either cos most of the time they mean jack shit in the real world... in study like conditions everything = perfect..to many varibles in the real world..

i agree it is real but it doesnt occcur from high volume workouts, it occurs when your training with intensity too many days in a row.  it probably varys from person to person, but for myself I know that i xperience no fatigue at all with one day off per week. 


in fact the first three years i was training, i trained 7 days a week high volume. and i didnt eat mmuch carbs either. (i liked low carb cuz when i lost fat initially it was with an atkins diet). over those three years neve once did i experience any symptoms of overtraining.  and i never missed a day unless it was impossible for me to get to a gym or workout with my weights at my house.


im basing my opinion that overtraining rarely ever occurs to people and thats it a big misconseption and an over used term off of my real woprld experience, not off of a study.

i also know of a pro who trains pretty much 7 days a week. maybe 1 day off every 10 days or so. bt even on that day its still a bit calves and abs and traps at home .

[Rimbaud]

i agree it is real but it doesnt occcur from high volume workouts, it occurs when your training with intensity too many days in a row.  it probably varys from person to person, but for myself I know that i xperience no fatigue at all with one day off per week. 

Yes it can. I know when I do way too much I feel fried that night...I usually feel like I'm sick (i.e. flu).

[Fatpanda]

Yes it can. I know when I do way too much I feel fried that night...I usually feel like I'm sick (i.e. flu).

yes, this is how i feel when overtrained too, cold and flu like symptoms every few weeks, tired - yet cannot sleep, strength either stalls or moves backwards.

[tbombz]

Yes it can. I know when I do way too much I feel fried that night...I usually feel like I'm sick (i.e. flu).

doesnt everyone always feel tired after doig hardwork...?

thats not overtraining its just working hard

[Rimbaud]

doesnt everyone always feel tired after doig hardwork...?

thats not overtraining its just working hard

No it's a completely different feeling. I went to the gym this afternoon, I'm tired. When I over train it's a totally different animal. I feel sick...I notice that I will also get really chilled too.

[MisterMagoo]

it depends on so many factors.

if you're a sedentary individual, chances are you can lift a lot more than if you have a very active lifestyle. people who work at a computer and are on their asses all day are going to be able to burn themselves out more in the gym than people who haul crates or chop down trees for a living.

when i worked at the steel mill, more than a 45 minute workout was enough to KO me if i did more than 4 a week. in school, where my day mostly consisted of sitting in class and sitting at my computer to do work, lifting for 90 minutes wasn't a problem at all as long as i kept eating enough. considering i do zero physical exertion outside of playing with my dog a little bit, the 6.2% of my day that's actual exercise can't possibly overtrain me.

it's totally individual. once again, GENETICS are a huge part of it. you can't really know unless you amp up your workouts and back off when they seem to be too much.

ever wondered how those russian olympic lifters can lift for 4 hours a day? it's not just because they're going sub-maximal, it's because that their entire day is that workout. the rest of the day is eating and recovering. top level bodybuilders, even the non-geared ones, can pull two a days at the gym thanks to not taxing their bodies ever, save the training. my stepdad runs triathlons. he lifts weights 4 days a week, along with running, swimming, and biking. it's not uncommon for him to be in the gym for 3+ hours. common wisdom would say he's overtraining, but he doesn't.

CNS burnout is a possibility but all you have to do to avoid THAT is not do heavy singles week in and week out. i made that mistake and my joints got pissed off at me, but that's not "overtraining".

[WillGrant]

it depends on so many factors.

if you're a sedentary individual, chances are you can lift a lot more than if you have a very active lifestyle. people who work at a computer and are on their asses all day are going to be able to burn themselves out more in the gym than people who haul crates or chop down trees for a living.

when i worked at the steel mill, more than a 45 minute workout was enough to KO me if i did more than 4 a week. in school, where my day mostly consisted of sitting in class and sitting at my computer to do work, lifting for 90 minutes wasn't a problem at all as long as i kept eating enough. considering i do zero physical exertion outside of playing with my dog a little bit, the 6.2% of my day that's actual exercise can't possibly overtrain me.

it's totally individual. once again, GENETICS are a huge part of it. you can't really know unless you amp up your workouts and back off when they seem to be too much.

ever wondered how those russian olympic lifters can lift for 4 hours a day? it's not just because they're going sub-maximal, it's because that their entire day is that workout. the rest of the day is eating and recovering. top level bodybuilders, even the non-geared ones, can pull two a days at the gym thanks to not taxing their bodies ever, save the training. my stepdad runs triathlons. he lifts weights 4 days a week, along with running, swimming, and biking. it's not uncommon for him to be in the gym for 3+ hours. common wisdom would say he's overtraining, but he doesn't.

CNS burnout is a possibility but all you have to do to avoid THAT is not do heavy singles week in and week out. i made that mistake and my joints got pissed off at me, but that's not "overtraining".

Those Russian Olympic lifters are the genetic elite on goverment funded drug programes and thats all they do , is train ,recover and do it all again.

They dont have to worry about working a 40-50 hour week , debts,bills,missed meals etc so basicly the average person , they cant be compared to "us"

Singles are not the only cause , chucking 400pds on your back and squating 20 times puts huge strain on the whole body ,you need to recover from that , then go chuck in deadlifts with 500 -600 pds for 5 - 8 reps in the same week is asking for trouble..

The spinal erectors take anywhere from 7 - 14 days to recover fully , hammering this group of muscle before recovered seems to open people to andrenal fatique..

People might say well avoid squats and deadlifts , but these are amoung the best exercises you can do for over all development..the harder an exercise usely means the more benifit towards muscular development.thats why the guys you see in the gym pissing around on isolation work dont look like they even train yet the ones that arnt lazy and get into squats,deads,cleans,presses always look more muscular..

[mass 04]

This is just an opinion, but i think a lot of it has to do with age. I'm in my 20's, have a pretty physical job, and train 4-5 days a week and recover fine. Guys older than me struggle with recovery and cut back on volume significantly.

[WillGrant]

This is just an opinion, but i think a lot of it has to do with age. I'm in my 20's, have a pretty physical job, and train 4-5 days a week and recover fine. Guys older than me struggle with recovery and cut back on volume significantly.

Thats a good opinion Mass zero oh four. Factor in age also.

[MisterMagoo]

They dont have to worry about working a 40-50 hour week , debts,bills,missed meals etc so basicly the average person , they cant be compared to "us"

that's my big point. if your 40-50 hour work week is just sitting at a desk and you get all your meals in, you can do a lot more in the gym than someone who works 50 hours in a steel mill or construction area, ya dig?

as for 7-14 days for the spinae erectors to recover, horseshit. if that was the case then they'd get progressively weaker if you work your back more than once a week (i hit my lower back twice a week). as long as i back off on my singles and don't burn out my CNS, it just doesn't happen and that's hitting them every 3-4 days.

[WillGrant]

that's my big point. if your 40-50 hour work week is just sitting at a desk and you get all your meals in, you can do a lot more in the gym than someone who works 50 hours in a steel mill or construction area, ya dig?

as for 7-14 days for the spinae erectors to recover, horseshit. if that was the case then they'd get progressively weaker if you work your back more than once a week (i hit my lower back twice a week). as long as i back off on my singles and don't burn out my CNS, it just doesn't happen and that's hitting them every 3-4 days.

I actualy feel worse when Im confined to desk work than when Im out being active all day..everyones different I guess..

Do you squat and Deadlift in the same week?
Not just train the movement but actualy push it?

The big powerlifters at one of the gyms I go to wont squat or dead in the same week because of OTS of the Spinal erectors..

[DK II]

my opinion is:

overtraining does exist.

giant sets WILL burn you out and cause you to overtrain - especially naturals, but even gear users although not as common.

if dk hasn't yet stalled on giant sets, its because he's either on gear, the weights are too light, or he has not been using progressive resistance.

good nutrition, plenty of rest, and a level of volume that is not too high will help stave it off, but not for ever, evetually if you are increasing the weight you will burn out.

oh and steroids will help too.

also i feel general fitness level plays a big big part in keeping overtraining at bay, by that i mean cardiovascular fitness.

BS!!

It's about training smarter, not harder. You cannot go on with progressive weights forever, if you could we would all bench 500. You need to understand your body, recover actively and use your training correctly.

You can train intensively with very low weight and high reps as well, for example. You need to understand how your body works, and that you need to shift training styles around to progress without overtraining. For someone who has trained high intensity with 12-15 reps for weeks, doing very high weights with 5-6 reps is recovery.

[Fatpanda]

BS!!

It's about training smarter, not harder. You cannot go on with progressive weights forever, if you could we would all bench 500. You need to understand your body, recover actively and use your training correctly.

You can train intensively with very low weight and high reps as well, for example. You need to understand how your body works, and that you need to shift training styles around to progress without overtraining. For someone who has trained high intensity with 12-15 reps for weeks, doing very high weights with 5-6 reps is recovery.

guys that are up to their eyeballs in gear get overtrained on less than giant sets, but you are telling me you don't as a natural 

as i said you are not progressing as well as you think if you are using giant sets, or you will burn out very shortly.

[andreisdaman]

I an tell when I am overtrained....my central nervous system feels wrecked....can't get a hard-on in the mornings to save my life and heart sometimes speeds up while I am laying down.....

[wes]

What a bunch of wussys!!  LOL 

[MisterMagoo]

I actualy feel worse when Im confined to desk work than when Im out being active all day..everyones different I guess..

Do you squat and Deadlift in the same week?
Not just train the movement but actualy push it?

The big powerlifters at one of the gyms I go to wont squat or dead in the same week because of OTS of the Spinal erectors..

yep. as long as i don't go for singles i progress. the last few... months... i've been doing singles far too often so i'm back down to 3-5 (still pushing it) and i'm pretty sure things will move in the right direction again.

[AVBG]

Most people think they train hard but in reality are merely scratching the surface.

Eat better,sleep better,and be intense in the gym.

Well said Tim. I agree totally.

[DK II]

guys that are up to their eyeballs in gear get overtrained on less than giant sets, but you are telling me you don't as a natural 

as i said you are not progressing as well as you think if you are using giant sets, or you will burn out very shortly.

...says the fat fuck that has obviously no idea about training at all.

How many roided out freaks that overtrained on Giant Sets do you know?? All hearsay, assumptions and other BS. If you train correctly, it's impossible to overtrain.

[The_Crusher]

Here it is guys....the symptoms of over training in order:

1. You lack motivation to workout.

2. Your body parts to train are still sore for the past days workout.

3. The final stage is weakness, fatigue, and the shits.

Now personally I've been here, done that. I've lifted for more then 24 years and understand more now about how much
the body can handle. I cannot stress this enough however if your intense in the gym like myself know more then 45 mins.
is ever needed in a workout session. Rest and nutrition are also keys to success. Personally I take 3-4 days rest between
groups currently before hitting my push/pull routine which is; day 1 (chest/shoulders/tris); day 2  (Quads/strings/calves);
day 3 (back/traps/bis).

Never underestimate rest. It's rest that allows your body to build, not the workout.

[Fatpanda]

...says the fat fuck that has obviously no idea about training at all.

How many roided out freaks that overtrained on Giant Sets do you know?? All hearsay, assumptions and other BS. If you train correctly, it's impossible to overtrain.

 

calm down princess, that was quite a meltdown   



so you know better than every person ever to experience overtraining 

dexter jackson has burn out and taken time off, ronnie coleman, jay cutler all say the rest does them good.

powerlifters also burn out often, and need to back off or take complete rest to recover.(nutrition isn't the cause for them as they eat everything).

in fact every successful weightlifter, powerlifter, bodybuilder, footballplayer, and ATHLETE all strive to avoid burnout.

but you 'DONKEYKONG FROM GETBIG' who does giant sets, and is a natural, has never hit a plateau and is always increasing weights claims that they must all be training incorrectly becauise you train correectly and if they trained correctly they would never overtrain or burnout 

this leads me and anyone else on this site who has a grain of intelligence to believe that:

a) you are a liar
b) you are on gear (and havn't yet burnout - but will)
c) are lifting pink dumbbells for your giant sets

Here it is guys....the symptoms of over training in order:

1. You lack motivation to workout.

2. Your body parts to train are still sore for the past days workout.

3. The final stage is weakness, fatigue, and the shits.

Now personally I've been here, done that. I've lifted for more then 24 years and understand more now about how much
the body can handle. I cannot stress this enough however if your intense in the gym like myself know more then 45 mins.
is ever needed in a workout session. Rest and nutrition are also keys to success. Personally I take 3-4 days rest between
groups currently before hitting my push/pull routine which is; day 1 (chest/shoulders/tris); day 2  (Quads/strings/calves);
day 3 (back/traps/bis).

Never underestimate rest. It's rest that allows your body to build, not the workout.

i agree

[DK II]

Fatpanda, you are a dumb shit. How about actually going to a gym and trying it out?


You cannot overtrain if you train right. PERIOD.

Once you start to experience overtraining symptoms after weeks of heavy training, you simply train different, i.e. statics, plyometrics, light weights, bodyweight exercises etc. PLUS you need lots of active recovering all the time, like sauna, massages, meditation etc.

It's easy, you are just too dumb.

[Bobby]

Here it is guys....the symptoms of over training in order:

1. You lack motivation to workout.

2. Your body parts to train are still sore for the past days workout.

3. The final stage is weakness, fatigue, and the shits.

Now personally I've been here, done that. I've lifted for more then 24 years and understand more now about how much
the body can handle. I cannot stress this enough however if your intense in the gym like myself know more then 45 mins.
is ever needed in a workout session. Rest and nutrition are also keys to success. Personally I take 3-4 days rest between
groups currently before hitting my push/pull routine which is; day 1 (chest/shoulders/tris); day 2  (Quads/strings/calves);
day 3 (back/traps/bis).

Never underestimate rest. It's rest that allows your body to build, not the workout.

interesting split!

I'd like to hear what your routine is, especially day 1.
Do you do any presses for delts, or will the pressing exercises on chest be enough? i can't press anything with delts after chest.

[DK II]

Periodisation and the prevention of overtraining.
Fry RW, Morton AR, Keast D.

Department of Human Movement and Recreation Studies, University of Western Australia, Nedlands.

It may be essential for the athlete to train in cycles in order to induce optimal improvements and prevent overtraining. Without sufficient recovery time, adaptation may not occur and the athlete may develop the symptoms of overtraining due to continuous and/or excessive exposure to training stress. Training in cycles provides guidelines for the times in the training programme when regeneration should be complete, and therefore the times when the athlete can be screened for overtraining without confusing the fatigue of overload training with that of overtraining. A periodised training structure provides guidelines for conducting research into the mechanisms of training adaptation and overtraining.

PMID: 1325265 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE

Here you go, fatidiot.