U.S. private employers shed 693,000 jobs in December!

[Bindare_Dundat]

Have we hit bottom yet?

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Job losses and plans to lay off workers hammered the struggling U.S. economy in the final month of 2008, according to private reports that foreshadow grim labor market data from the government on Friday.

U.S. private employers shed 693,000 jobs in December, up sharply from the revised 476,000 jobs lost in November and far more than economists estimated, a report by ADP Employer Services said on Wednesday.

[Soul Crusher]

As a small business owner I will tell you exactly why this is?

1.  Cash flow is tight.

2.  Prospect of higher taxes by Obama and state governments. 

3.  Customers are not paying their bills and hoarding cash.

4.  Higher costs from inflation down the road. 

5.  Likely worsening recession/depression for years to come. 

6.  Overhead costs and existing tax rates are way too high.         

[MRDUMPLING]

Exactly...as an employee of a small business I actually get to see these figures. 

1, 3, and 6 are the main reasons we are down to a skeleton crew now even though all six affect us.  Cue in Getbiggers to tell us we are close minded and ignorant even though we live this everyday.  Oh, and that high taxes are good...   

[Soul Crusher]

Exactly...as an employee of a small business I actually get to see these figures. 

1, 3, and 6 are the main reasons we are down to a skeleton crew now even though all six affect us.  Cue in Getbiggers to tell us we are close minded and ignorant even though we live this everyday.  Oh, and that high taxes are good...   

I am attacked daily by liberal morons on these boards who have no clue about small business and taxes.  They get their talking points from CNN, MSNBC, and their commie professors.

I have all small business owner clients and know exactly the problems they face.  Its overhead costs, taxes, and tight cash flow because everyone else is being squeezed by the same. 

Workers Compensation costs alone are insane, let alone if a company is a union shop and they have to contribute to
the benes.

Its no use arguing with these dope addicts, they have no clue about how business actually works yet pontificate as if they could run the world from their mothers' basement.
 

 

[Hereford]

I am a small-business owner/consultant, and this is spot-on.

As a small business owner I will tell you exactly why this is?

1.  Cash flow is tight.
Nobody wants to start new projects, or do anything that might cost money right now.

2.  Prospect of higher taxes by Obama and state governments. 
I live in CA, and the state is going to be 100% broke in a month. They are doubling most taxes and fees for EVERYTHING here. They are also enforcing revenue-producing laws and regulations all of a sudden that do nothing but make money for the state.

3.  Customers are not paying their bills and hoarding cash.
The #1 headache many businesses have right now. 30%+ of accounts are past due.

4.  Higher costs from inflation down the road. 

5.  Likely worsening recession/depression for years to come. 

6.  Overhead costs and existing tax rates are way too high.     
Tax rates in CA compete with Massachussets and Hawaii for the highest in the country across the board. People might not mind so much if there was much of anything to show for the trillion dollars in extorted funds except more illegals, more social services waste, inefficient union 'public service' projects and back room handshake deals.

[Soul Crusher]

I am a small-business owner/consultant, and this is spot-on.

Do me a favor, the next time some of these moron college aged idealistic fools chipe in as to why we need higher taxes and regulation come to my aide. 

I am in the trenches day in and day out on this stuff and face it daily. 

I do a ton of commercial collections/ a/r mgmt and deal with small businesses daily and deal with these things. 

When I hear these college aged fools who are in debt for over 150k tell me how to run my business and the nation, I just laugh.

Sadly, I dont see things turning around any time soon.

Housing is still overpriced in relation to peoples incomes.

Business taxes, overhead, workers comp, payroll taxes, are still way too high to where a small business can survive. 

In my area, the rents are still too high.  However the local property taxes are so high that landlords cant go too much cheaper without losing themselces.

In my opinion, we are really screwed for a long time.     

[MRDUMPLING]

Let us not forget basic property taxes which are absurd.  Desks, computers, chairs, printers, etc. are all taxed with no depreciation of value taken into consideration!!!!  What kind of bullshit is that?  Here we can refurnish and buy new stuff every year with the property taxes we pay!  The tax doesn't change as the equipment gets older.  What a crock of shit.  The last thing we need right now is more and higher taxes. 

[Soul Crusher]

Let us not forget basic property taxes which are absurd.  Desks, computers, chairs, printers, etc. are all taxed with no depreciation of value taken into consideration!!!!  What kind of bullshit is that?  Here we can refurnish and buy new stuff every year with the property taxes we pay!  The tax doesn't change as the equipment gets older.  What a crock of shit.  The last thing we need right now is more and higher taxes. 

I have a huge painting contractor client who pays well over a million a year in union benes alone.  We are in NYC area.  Do you know that the union "organizers" still show up at every job busting balls for every employee to make sure that every single hour is accounted for???

I got on the phone with one of these disgusting union thieves and told them that we were going to go "non-union" and that they could go screw them,selves and they could care less.  I explained that if they forced my client out of business they would be out over 1 million a year in benes alone and they acted indifferent to the whole matter.

Small business has no chance at success at the way things are going.  The imbedded costs just in operating are too high for any small business to survive.

Its sad, but the liberal mindset in mandating crushing costs to small businesses is directly to blame for this, whether it be higher workers comp costs, higher taxes, higher fees and permit costs, it is all leading to a collapse.

     

       
 

[240 is Back]

I've seen a very good bump since Jan 1 in business.  December sucked.  What happened?

[shootfighter1]

I am also a small business owner (general medical) and we have seen a decrease in visits while the cost of products and shipping have gone up.  People have less $ to spend on non-necessities, or in our case, non-life threatening medical care.  Co-pays have gone up, deductibles have gone up, people need more personal $ to pay the bills.
Small businesses get crushed with taxes.  I still don't understand why.  All I know is that the quarterly taxes + payroll taxes + worker's comp costs + RITA taxes + all the regulatory licences and other bullshit we have is absurd.  Then there's malpractice.  I had no idea there were this many taxes and general costs for having employees.  
It makes it hard to stay afloat and not sell the practice to the hospital (which is often worse for general medical care because of the bureaucracy)

[Soul Crusher]

I am also a small business owner (general medical) and we have seen a decrease in visits while the cost of products and shipping have gone up.  People have less $ to spend on non-necessities, or in our case, non-life threatening medical care.  Co-pays have gone up, deductibles have gone up, people need more personal $ to pay the bills.
Small businesses get crushed with taxes.  I still don't understand why.  All I know is that the quarterly taxes + payroll taxes + worker's comp costs + RITA taxes + all the regulatory licences and other bullshit we have is absurd.  Then there's malpractice.  I had no idea there were this many taxes and general costs for having employees.  
It makes it hard to stay afloat and not sell the practice to the hospital (which is often worse for general medical care because of the bureaucracy)

Try explaining this to the liberal commies on this board who have never run a business, let alone even have a real job in their lives. 

[shootfighter1]

333386, I agree with everything you said.  People need to be out working in the private sector to fully understand, not making judgements from academia or from a big company perspective.
Small business is a large part of what makes the US great, and it seems to be slipping away.

[Soul Crusher]

333386, I agree with everything you said.  People need to be out working in the private sector to fully understand, not making judgements from academia or from a big company perspective.
Small business is a large part of what makes the US great, and it seems to be slipping away.

I am only myself and two employees.  We have a small commercial collections business.  We do liens, debt collection, judgement enforcement, and bond claims, for small business owners like plumbers, painters, carting companies, electricians, etc in the NYC area.  We handle claims for concrete companies, carting, plumbing, painting, etc.   

I speak to creditors and debtors on a daily basis and have a "boots on the ground" idea of what is going on. 

When I hear these liberal fools on these boards try to tell me the way the world " should work" I just laugh. 

I know WTF is going on and am usually a step above the curve as to what is coming and will tell you things are going to get way worse before they get better.

We are screwed royally for a long long long time.  The foundational costs associated with running the govt, the welfare state, peoples' living costs, etc are so out of whack now that it wont get better for may years to come.

We need major tax cuts, costs cuts, workers comp cuts, tort reform, and payroll tax cuts to turn this around.

Because over 50% of the people are on welfare of one form or another, we are screwed for a long time.   

[Hereford]

333386 I spent a lot of time in college, and I can tell you that most college liberals have absolutely no concept about economics in the real world. They can just borrow more and more $$$ in the form of student loans and aid, and never really have that pressure to pay it back (at REAL interest rates). If college girl had to make her way in life and actually WORK for her keep, she would think differently about supporting the non-hackers and lazy in society.

If it's not your $$$, then of course you don't mind giving it away, right?

Question:  Why would any private business owner ever hire union labor? If you get gvt contracts, then you are usually forced to... But is something like painting really such a rare skill that you have to deal with union bullshit?

Of note to all: The government makes revenue off money changing hands. This is why they want small business owners to always be scrambling and in debt (but just to the point of not having to go bankrupt).

[headhuntersix]

333386 I spent a lot of time in college, and I can tell you that most college liberals have absolutely no concept about economics in the real world. They can just borrow more and more $$$ in the form of student loans and aid, and never really have that pressure to pay it back (at REAL interest rates). If college girl had to make her way in life and actually WORK for her keep, she would think differently about supporting the non-hackers and lazy in society.

If it's not your $$$, then of course you don't mind giving it away, right?

Question:  Why would any private business owner ever hire union labor? If you get gvt contracts, then you are usually forced to... But is something like painting really such a rare skill that you have to deal with union bullshit?

Of note to all: The government makes revenue off money changing hands. This is why they want small business owners to always be scrambling and in debt (but just to the point of not having to go bankrupt).

Thats priceless.....anyway its funny, all we heard from the messiah or his talking heads was how small businesses actually get around paying taxes and that despite raising taxes on those making 250 grand things will be ok. U want to make money now, get into defense or make weapons. They can't keep guns and ammo in on the shelves at Cabellas or Bass Pro here. I like to go up to Cabellas and look at the hand guns, see what they have new or used. I used to be able to go BS with the old guys behind the counter, now its 3 deep and they call ur number to get counter service. Try buying anything but cheap ammo...its all gone some weekends.

[Soul Crusher]

333386 I spent a lot of time in college, and I can tell you that most college liberals have absolutely no concept about economics in the real world. They can just borrow more and more $$$ in the form of student loans and aid, and never really have that pressure to pay it back (at REAL interest rates). If college girl had to make her way in life and actually WORK for her keep, she would think differently about supporting the non-hackers and lazy in society.

If it's not your $$$, then of course you don't mind giving it away, right?

Question:  Why would any private business owner ever hire union labor? If you get gvt contracts, then you are usually forced to... But is something like painting really such a rare skill that you have to deal with union bullshit?

Of note to all: The government makes revenue off money changing hands. This is why they want small business owners to always be scrambling and in debt (but just to the point of not having to go bankrupt).

A lot of the jobs require union labor or require "prevailing wage" which is usually insane anyway. 

There is ZERO chance a small business can survive without cutting many corners.   

[Hereford]

Ha HH6, in Cali it's a bitch to even get ahold of a 10/22. Go to the midwest and you can go in and walk out in 20 minutes with a Bullpup or AR-15.

[Soul Crusher]

Thats priceless.....anyway its funny, all we heard from the messiah or his talking heads was how small businesses actually get around paying taxes and that despite raising taxes on those making 250 grand things will be ok. U want to make money now, get into defense or make weapons. They can't keep guns and ammo in on the shelves at Cabellas or Bass Pro here. I like to go up to Cabellas and look at the hand guns, see what they have new or used. I used to be able to go BS with the old guys behind the counter, now its 3 deep and they call ur number to get counter service. Try buying anything but cheap ammo...its all gone some weekends.

Once Obama decides to tax ammo at 500% that will end too.  

[Hereford]

Once Obama decides to tax ammo at 500% that will end too.  

remember, it's a lot easiser to tax and regulate something out of existance than it is to ban it away....

[tu_holmes]

Wow... This is a right wing sausage fest in this thread.

Look, no one ever said taxes were good... Personally, I hate the income tax... but... with the US national debt as high as it is... How do you think you're ever going to pay it down.

Yes... I know... cut spending... But when someone says, I'm cutting the military spend by 25% you freak out... You can't have it both ways.

Yes, cut spending... yes... Tax... it is now REQUIRED to tax, so don't act like it's not.

Most of you guys will only cut what you want to cut... you won't cut everywhere and realistically, no matter how mad you get... unless you stop voting for the 2 parties, you're going to be bitching about it in 4, 8 16, 32 years still.

None of the parties came out and said I'm going to stop spending... At least 1 party said, Well, I'm going to increase taxes to offset the spend... So who was more fiscally responsible?

As shitty as it sounds... The dems are at least trying to bring in revenue... The Repubs are just saying... we won't tax... but we're gonna spend anyway.

That's not right either.

Show me someone who's going to stop spending, then let's talk.

[MuscleMcMannus]

Wow... This is a right wing sausage fest in this thread.

Look, no one ever said taxes were good... Personally, I hate the income tax... but... with the US national debt as high as it is... How do you think you're ever going to pay it down.

Yes... I know... cut spending... But when someone says, I'm cutting the military spend by 25% you freak out... You can't have it both ways.

Yes, cut spending... yes... Tax... it is now REQUIRED to tax, so don't act like it's not.

Most of you guys will only cut what you want to cut... you won't cut everywhere and realistically, no matter how mad you get... unless you stop voting for the 2 parties, you're going to be bitching about it in 4, 8 16, 32 years still.

None of the parties came out and said I'm going to stop spending... At least 1 party said, Well, I'm going to increase taxes to offset the spend... So who was more fiscally responsible?

As shitty as it sounds... The dems are at least trying to bring in revenue... The Repubs are just saying... we won't tax... but we're gonna spend anyway.

That's not right either.

Show me someone who's going to stop spending, then let's talk.

Just look at the state of CA.  Governor nazinator was supposed to come in and balance the budget, cut spending etc.  He's spent more in the last several years than anyone.  The state is bankrupt.  Hell we may not even get tax returns this year. 

[Hereford]

Just look at the state of CA.  Governor nazinator was supposed to come in and balance the budget, cut spending etc.  He's spent more in the last several years than anyone.  The state is bankrupt.  Hell we may not even get tax returns this year. 

Cut the bottom 20% off from the public welfare trough and this state is one of the richest in the country.

[MuscleMcMannus]

Cut the bottom 20% off from the public welfare trough and this state is one of the richest in the country.

Please.....you act like everyone on "welfare" is some porch monkey in Compton sipping 40's or some taco from Tijiuana with 5 babies to feed.  I know PLENTY of middle class professionals sucking off the tit of welfare.  I'd love to see all the out of work real estate agents, mortgage brokers, clamoring to do away with welfare. 

CA spent $50 billion on welfare last year.  $70 billion on public education.  They recently fired an LA administrator who was making $500K a year.  My point is if there are flaws in a system EVERYONE will take advantage of it, not just the poor.  Look at Berney Madoff. 

[tu_holmes]

Cut the bottom 20% off from the public welfare trough and this state is one of the richest in the country.

Not saying that's not true, but again, you only say cut welfare... Welfare is not the problem... It's how welfare is designed... I actually have a fool proof method to fix welfare, but no one would want to hear it, so I keep it to myself.

None the less... If you cut welfare, you have to cut other shit... You can't act like it's all welfare's problem.

Welfare, while abused, also is part of adoption, sexual victims, and a host of other things... It's not just a free check for everyone.

You have to cut EVERYWHERE.

Please.....you act like everyone on "welfare" is some porch monkey in Compton sipping 40's or some taco from Tijiuana with 5 babies to feed.  I know PLENTY of middle class professionals sucking off the tit of welfare.  I'd love to see all the out of work real estate agents, mortgage brokers, clamoring to do away with welfare. 

CA spent $50 billion on welfare last year.  $70 billion on public education.  They recently fired an LA administrator who was making $500K a year.  My point is if there are flaws in a system EVERYONE will take advantage of it, not just the poor.  Look at Berney Madoff. 

No lie there.

[MuscleMcMannus]

The agricultural industry receives billions of dollars in welfare every year.