All machines vs. All weights... who wins?

[240 is Back]

This one is interesting to me - I saw a thread about it here, and I recall in the gym, actually tonight, a fairly well built guy telling a smaller new guy to avoid the machines and only use free weights.  Is it as simple as weight moved?  Or do 'stabilizer muscles' matter, as the mags tell us?

Let's say you get a set of twins in the gym.  They're 18, with identical genes, nutrition, and work ethic.  You set them loose for 2 years. 

Twin A is stuck in the freeweight section, where he can only use movements like Bench, military press, squat, deadlifts, rows, and dumbbell movements.  He can use no machines.

Twin B is limited only to machines and cables, but just like his bro, he can use unlimited weights with it.

In 2 years, which guy carries more muscle?

[Bluto]

try posting on getbig with weights and not a machine

machine wins

[swilkins1984]

Find the happy medium: Hammer Strength

[Palpatine Q]

This one is interesting to me - I saw a thread about it here, and I recall in the gym, actually tonight, a fairly well built guy telling a smaller new guy to avoid the machines and only use free weights.  Is it as simple as weight moved?  Or do 'stabilizer muscles' matter, as the mags tell us?

Let's say you get a set of twins in the gym.  They're 18, with identical genes, nutrition, and work ethic.  You set them loose for 2 years. 

Twin A is stuck in the freeweight section, where he can only use movements like Bench, military press, squat, deadlifts, rows, and dumbbell movements.  He can use no machines.

Twin B is limited only to machines and cables, but just like his bro, he can use unlimited weights with it.

In 2 years, which guy carries more muscle?

I'd say free weight guy would be a bit bigger and machine guy would look more like a BBer

[saucetradomous]

try posting on getbig with weights and not a machine

machine wins

Bluto is a MACHINE

[affy]

twin A would have a pec tear, torn ACL, and torn tendons all over

twin B would be a tiny tit

seriously though...i'm pretty sure they'd both look about the same, especially if they had the same diet and drugs. 

[swilkins1984]

There are a few instances where machines probably win convincingly
BB pullover vs. Nautilus Pullover
SL Deadlift vs. Lying Hamstring curl machine

[tbombz]

There are a few instances where machines probably win convincingly
BB pullover vs. Nautilus Pullover
SL Deadlift vs. Lying Hamstring curl machine

cable laterals
cable curls
machine bench press
cable crossovers
v-bar pushdowns
leg extension
seated hamstring curl
cable uprigth rows
seated cable rows
machine t bar rows with chest pad
seated tricep extension with elbow pad


etc etc etc

machines offer much more stress on target muscle and ability to much better focus on mind-muscle connection

[saucetradomous]

There are a few instances where machines probably win convincingly
BB pullover vs. Nautilus Pullover
SL Deadlift vs. Lying Hamstring curl machine

I can agree with this statement..  I find you can work rear delts better using machines but overall TinyTit A will be a bit bigger.

[kh300]

depends on who progressed in poundages the most. 

[philborg]

With regard to cable crossovers, any one who does them ever deserves to die. Unless your gym has 5 or more cable stations it is the most selfish thing you can do in the gym to take up an entire station and prevent any one from using one side to do cable curls/cable laterals/triceps pushdowns/etc

[saucetradomous]

cable laterals
cable curls
machine bench press
cable crossovers
v-bar pushdowns
leg extension
seated hamstring curl
cable uprigth rows
seated cable rows
machine t bar rows with chest pad
seated tricep extension with elbow pad


etc etc etc

machines offer much more stress on target muscle and ability to much better focus on mind-muscle connection

Cable curls?  no, no, no.  the hamstring curl would be beneficial though. Cable rows your pulling the weight horizontally vs straight up and down so 200lbs cables will not exactly be 200lbs free weights.

[thelamefalsehood]

Why not just do bodyweight exercises if the new trend on GB is machines only? If free weights are so overrated and machines are so much better then bodyweight exercises must be the best of the three. Right?

[saucetradomous]

Why not just do bodyweight exercises if the new trend on GB is machines only? If free weights are so overrated and machines are so much better then bodyweight exercises must be the best of the three. Right?

Now your thinking like a true Falcon

[kh300]

Cable curls?  no, no, no.  the hamstring curl would be beneficial though. Cable rows your pulling the weight horizontally vs straight up and down so 200lbs cables will not exactly be 200lbs free weights.

cable curls offer constant tension..

[tbombz]

Cable curls?  no, no, no.  the hamstring curl would be beneficial though. Cable rows your pulling the weight horizontally vs straight up and down so 200lbs cables will not exactly be 200lbs free weights.

cable curls you have tension on the bicep from the very bttoom to the very top. with a barbell you do not have this. the arc will take away a bit of the weights tension towards the top of the rep. cables keep full tension. and as i noted above, machines allow better concentration for beter mind-muscle connection..(which IMO is probably one of the very most important factors in this whole thign anyway)

[kiwiol]

This one is interesting to me - I saw a thread about it here, and I recall in the gym, actually tonight, a fairly well built guy telling a smaller new guy to avoid the machines and only use free weights.  Is it as simple as weight moved?  Or do 'stabilizer muscles' matter, as the mags tell us?

Let's say you get a set of twins in the gym.  They're 18, with identical genes, nutrition, and work ethic.  You set them loose for 2 years. 

Twin A is stuck in the freeweight section, where he can only use movements like Bench, military press, squat, deadlifts, rows, and dumbbell movements.  He can use no machines.

Twin B is limited only to machines and cables, but just like his bro, he can use unlimited weights with it.

In 2 years, which guy carries more muscle?

If they are both natural and lift with the same intensity, volume etc, the guy doing the free weights would be a bit more muscular than his twin who trains with machines and cables. Machines and cables complement free weights. You don't HAVE to do a particular exercise or routine to develop a body part - machines and cables can be very useful if you are training around an injury or even if you just like the way they feel as opposed to free weights.

Free weights are harder to do cause you need to fire stabilizers and ancillary muscles to both push / pull a weight as well as keep it in the groove that you want. With machines, you follow a fixed groove, which is why you can push more weight - like a guy who benches 225 doing 450 lbs on a hammer strength bench press, for example.

There are some movements such as deadlifts and squats that you just can't replicate using machines or cables, but then again, there are things like the leg press which stimulate muscle growth pretty well while giving you a level of comfort that you'd never get while doing free weights. So it's all up to you - as long as you are putting in the effort needed, you'll see results. That being said, the best thing to do would be to start with basic, compound movements using free weights and then moving on to machines and later, cables so you can properly exhaust the muscle group to the maximum possible extent.

[gh15]

This one is interesting to me - I saw a thread about it here, and I recall in the gym, actually tonight, a fairly well built guy telling a smaller new guy to avoid the machines and only use free weights.  Is it as simple as weight moved?  Or do 'stabilizer muscles' matter, as the mags tell us?

Let's say you get a set of twins in the gym.  They're 18, with identical genes, nutrition, and work ethic.  You set them loose for 2 years. 

Twin A is stuck in the freeweight section, where he can only use movements like Bench, military press, squat, deadlifts, rows, and dumbbell movements.  He can use no machines.

Twin B is limited only to machines and cables, but just like his bro, he can use unlimited weights with it.

In 2 years, which guy carries more muscle?

the one who has more money to buy more drugs and better respond to those drugs will win,,few of the best bodybuilders developed their bodys on bowflex and they are from eastern europe and didnt have money to go to gym while in america because they worked 3 diff jobs so they can eat yum yum

you need to stimulate the muscle! free weight is good and nice and i recomend it as base but when you have this base you can work machines and whatever not and get stimulation

combination of both is the best but as long as you get the stimulation needed and have the ability to be on hormones that twin will look better if both do same thing

if both completely natural it will be a dependent on diet training and rest

[saucetradomous]

cable curls you have tension on the bicep from the very bttoom to the very top. with a barbell you do not have this. the arc will take away a bit of the weights tension towards the top of the rep. cables keep full tension. and as i noted above, machines allow better concentration for beter mind-muscle connection..(which IMO is probably one of the very most important factors in this whole thign anyway)

concentration curls will keep the tension from the top to the bottom.. if you go any higher your resting the weight on your joints anyways.  

[saucetradomous]

the one who has more money to buy more drugs and better respond to those drugs will win,,few of the best bodybuilders developed their bodys on bowflex and they are from eastern europe and didnt have money to go to gym while in america because they worked 3 diff jobs so they can eat yum yum

you need to stimulate the muscle! free weight is good and nice and i recomend it as base but when you have this base you can work machines and whatever not and get stimulation

combination of both is the best but as long as you get the stimulation needed and have the ability to be on hormones that twin will look better if both do same thing

if both completely natural it will be a dependent on diet training and rest

Your missing the point.  Pick one or the other..

[shiftedShapes]

Why not just do bodyweight exercises if the new trend on GB is machines only? If free weights are so overrated and machines are so much better then bodyweight exercises must be the best of the three. Right?

actually they are the best!  They allow you to adjust difficulty in infinitesimally small increments by altering body position to increase or decrease torque, and they minimize the chance of injury by eliminating external load which could cause injury if out of control.

If you think you're too strong for bodyweight exercises complete the following:

one-arm legs together push-up
one-arm pull-up
one leg glute ham raise
one leg squat (with back straight and upright, and working knee behind toe)

These are tough but if they're too easy I can prescribe way tougher.

[webcake]

So the answer is.....whoever has the best drugs.....

[MisterMagoo]

they'd probably look fairly similar, but the first guy would be a hell of a lot more athletic. given the unlimited possibilities of freeweights we could have one guy doing all Oly lifts and variations and he'd be in terrifyingly good shape. there's nothing a machine can do that will replace power cleans or push presses.

[Tombo]

cable curls you have tension on the bicep from the very bttoom to the very top. with a barbell you do not have this. the arc will take away a bit of the weights tension towards the top of the rep. cables keep full tension. and as i noted above, machines allow better concentration for beter mind-muscle connection..(which IMO is probably one of the very most important factors in this whole thign anyway)

no matter what with every mechanic there is going to be different levels of tension through a repetition, its never been PROVEN that full ROM/partial ROM is the BEST way, its all individualization and speculation

[flagadajones]

what a bunch of morons....

different kinds of exercices dont give a different shape to a given muscle group...

the muscles are genetically designed to have a predetermined shape whatever the way you train em, so it makes this whole thread just another useless and retarded  piece of shit in the ocean of bullcrap this board is.