McNabb!!!!

[Option D]

We understand that you can make an argument with the stats, but the knock on McNabb has always been that just when you start to consider him one of the elite qb's he puts together a horrible string of games, and stink up the joint.  I think the overrated talk will stop when McNabb wins something significant.  The pats went to the AFC title game in 06 and back to the sb in 07 and no one gives a shit.  Manning went to several AFC championship games, and no one cared until he actually won one.

Um . Yeah they actually did. When Manning went to the AFC championships he was still extremely hyped...in which he should have been...he just hadnt won one.

[Dos Equis]

We understand that you can make an argument with the stats, but the knock on McNabb has always been that just when you start to consider him one of the elite qb's he puts together a horrible string of games, and stink up the joint.  I think the overrated talk will stop when McNabb wins something significant.  The pats went to the AFC title game in 06 and back to the sb in 07 and no one gives a shit.  Manning went to several AFC championship games, and no one cared until he actually won one.

It isn't just about stats.  It's about whatever measure you want to use:  wins, playoff appearances, playoff wins, winning while surrounded by poor talent, playing in the toughest division in football, TDs, yards, TD/INT ratio, you name it. 

No one has made a reasonable argument that McNabb is overrated.  If he is overrated, you could rattle off 10 or 15 QBs who have been more successful the past ten years.  You can't.  I admit he has had bad games.  Who hasn't?  For years I thought Manning was the best regular season QB in the NFL (better than Brady).  He couldn't get it done in the playoffs.  Does that mean Manning hasn't been one of the top 2 or 3 QBs in the NFL the past 8 to 10 years?  No. 

And just so everyone understands, I'm not an Eagles fan and not a huge McNabb fan.  I don't like the fact he is injury prone.  I think he acts like a space cadet sometimes.  He did not handle the T.O. matter as well as he could have.  Picking up the phone on the Giants sideline was bush league.  He choked in the Super Bowl.   

That said, you can't deny the facts.  The man has produced like few other QBs in the NFL with some of the worst skill position players in the league.   

The overrated talk is not supported by any sort of reasonable facts. 

[Option D]

It isn't just about stats.  It's about whatever measure you want to use:  wins, playoff appearances, playoff wins, winning while surrounded by poor talent, playing in the toughest division in football, TDs, yards, TD/INT ratio, you name it. 

No one has made a reasonable argument that McNabb is overrated.  If he is overrated, you could rattle off 10 or 15 QBs who have been more successful the past ten years.  You can't.  I admit he has had bad games.  Who hasn't?  For years I thought Manning was the best regular season QB in the NFL (better than Brady).  He couldn't get it done in the playoffs.  Does that mean Manning hasn't been one of the top 2 or 3 QBs in the NFL the past 8 to 10 years?  No. 

And just so everyone understands, I'm not an Eagles fan and not a huge McNabb fan.  I don't like the fact he is injury prone.  I think he acts like a space cadet sometimes.  He did not handle the T.O. matter as well as he could have.  Picking up the phone on the Giants sideline was bush league.  He choked in the Super Bowl.   

That said, you can't deny the facts.  The man has produced like few other QBs in the NFL with some of the worst skill position players in the league.   

The overrated talk is not supported by any sort of reasonable facts. 

(In a real deep, black mans voice) YEAH!!!!

[Dos Equis]

(In a real deep, black mans voice) YEAH!!!!

lol.   

[OzmO]

It isn't just about stats.  It's about whatever measure you want to use:  wins, playoff appearances, playoff wins, winning while surrounded by poor talent, playing in the toughest division in football, TDs, yards, TD/INT ratio, you name it. 

No one has made a reasonable argument that McNabb is overrated.  If he is overrated, you could rattle off 10 or 15 QBs who have been more successful the past ten years.  You can't.  I admit he has had bad games.  Who hasn't?  For years I thought Manning was the best regular season QB in the NFL (better than Brady).  He couldn't get it done in the playoffs.  Does that mean Manning hasn't been one of the top 2 or 3 QBs in the NFL the past 8 to 10 years?  No. 

And just so everyone understands, I'm not an Eagles fan and not a huge McNabb fan.  I don't like the fact he is injury prone.  I think he acts like a space cadet sometimes.  He did not handle the T.O. matter as well as he could have.  Picking up the phone on the Giants sideline was bush league.  He choked in the Super Bowl.   

That said, you can't deny the facts.  The man has produced like few other QBs in the NFL with some of the worst skill position players in the league.   

The overrated talk is not supported by any sort of reasonable facts. 

The idea that someone is "overrated" is based on what you make comparisons with.  McNabb is overrated when he's grouped with quarterbacks such as Payton Manning and Tom Brady which is often where many people's expectations lie. 

When McNabb is grouped with QB's such Rivers and Breez he's not.

McNabb is a great QB who has at times shown greatness on the field.  But until he wins the BIG GAME he'll never be truly great and the tendency to compare him with the likes of Brady and Manning will always lead people to consider him over rated.

[Oldschool Flip]

It isn't just about stats.  It's about whatever measure you want to use:  wins, playoff appearances, playoff wins, winning while surrounded by poor talent, playing in the toughest division in football, TDs, yards, TD/INT ratio, you name it. 

No one has made a reasonable argument that McNabb is overrated.  If he is overrated, you could rattle off 10 or 15 QBs who have been more successful the past ten years.  You can't.  I admit he has had bad games.  Who hasn't?  For years I thought Manning was the best regular season QB in the NFL (better than Brady).  He couldn't get it done in the playoffs.  Does that mean Manning hasn't been one of the top 2 or 3 QBs in the NFL the past 8 to 10 years?  No. 

And just so everyone understands, I'm not an Eagles fan and not a huge McNabb fan.  I don't like the fact he is injury prone.  I think he acts like a space cadet sometimes.  He did not handle the T.O. matter as well as he could have.  Picking up the phone on the Giants sideline was bush league.  He choked in the Super Bowl.   

That said, you can't deny the facts.  The man has produced like few other QBs in the NFL with some of the worst skill position players in the league.   

The overrated talk is not supported by any sort of reasonable facts. 

Maybe overrated is too strong a term. He is great when the BIG game isn't at hand (NFC Championship and Superbowl). Jim Kelly was a great quarterback, but until McNabb wins the big one, he'll be in the same league.
I'll agree that McNabb is undoubtedly the best QB the NFC has had in the last 10 years. Maybe that's why the NFC hasn't won many SB's either. Only 3 NFC wins in the last 10 years and those QB's were Warner, Brad Johnson, and Eli Manning. Eh. Let's see if McNabb can beat out Warner this time.

[OzmO]

Maybe overrated is too strong a term. He is great when the BIG game isn't at hand (NFC Championship and Superbowl). Jim Kelly is a great quarterback, but until McNabb wins the big one, he'll be in the same league.
I'll agree that McNabb is undoubtedly the best QB the NFC has had in the last 10 years. Maybe that's why the NFC hasn't won many SB's either. Only 3 NFC wins in the last 10 years and those QB's were Warner, Brad Johnson, and Eli Manning. Eh. Let's see if McNabb can beat out Warner this time.

Dam we essentially said the same thing.       Dick. 

[Oldschool Flip]

Ass

[OzmO]

Ass

One thing for sure, If by some miracle, the Eagles win the Super Bowl, he should call T.O. out at the press conference afterwards.   

[Oldschool Flip]

Yeah. Just make sure the phone has the Dallas Cowboys insignia on it though.

[OzmO]

Yeah. Just make sure the phone has the Dallas Cowboys insignia on it though.

He could say:  "Yeah T.O. it's even less tiring when you win a super bowl!"

[body88]

Um . Yeah they actually did. When Manning went to the AFC championships he was still extremely hyped...in which he should have been...he just hadnt won one.

Most of the media refereed to Manning as an amazing qb who never could win the big one.  I was not referring to Manning being "hyped", I was talking about his peers and the media. Unless you win the big one it's all for nothing in many peoples eyes.

[Dos Equis]

The idea that someone is "overrated" is based on what you make comparisons with.  McNabb is overrated when he's grouped with quarterbacks such as Payton Manning and Tom Brady which is often where many people's expectations lie. 

When McNabb is grouped with QB's such Rivers and Breez he's not.

McNabb is a great QB who has at times shown greatness on the field.  But until he wins the BIG GAME he'll never be truly great and the tendency to compare him with the likes of Brady and Manning will always lead people to consider him over rated.

I'm comparing McNabb with every QB in the NFL.

I don't think anyone has said that McNabb is better than Brady and Manning.  He isn't.  But in two threads some have argued that he is simply isn't very good (not true); that he is overrated (he isn't).  Outside of Brady and Manning, both of whom are better than every other QB in the NFL, there isn't another QB in the NFL with McNabb's success.  I don't think many talk about him as one of the top 3 QBs in the NFL over the past decade, but he is.  So from that standpoint, he's actually underrated. 
 
McNabb has had a HOF career whether he wins the "big one" or not.  From that angle, he isn't much different than Jim Kelly, pre-Super Bowl winner John Elway, Marino, pre-Super Bowl winner Manning, Dan Fouts, or any other QB who never won a championship.  They were all great QBs, whether they won rings or not. 

Also, keep in mind what he has done with the talent around him.  I'd be more critical if he had Harrison/Wayne and didn't get to the Super Bowl.  That's why I think what Brady did is so great.  He won his Super Bowls without having the best WRs in the league.  When they gave him Moss, Welker, etc., he set records and went to the Super Bowl.  McNabb did the same thing (achieved with average or even sub par talent and went to the Super Bowl when they got him T.O.). 

[OzmO]

I'm comparing McNabb with every QB in the NFL.

I don't think anyone has said that McNabb is better than Brady and Manning.  He isn't.  But in two threads some have argued that he is simply isn't very good (not true); that he is overrated (he isn't).  Outside of Brady and Manning, both of whom are better than every other QB in the NFL, there isn't another QB in the NFL with McNabb's success.  I don't think many talk about him as one of the top 3 QBs in the NFL over the past decade, but he is.  So from that standpoint, he's actually underrated. 
 
McNabb has had a HOF career whether he wins the "big one" or not.  From that angle, he isn't much different than Jim Kelly, pre-Super Bowl winner John Elway, Marino, pre-Super Bowl winner Manning, Dan Fouts, or any other QB who never won a championship.  They were all great QBs, whether they won rings or not. 

Also, keep in mind what he has done with the talent around him.  I'd be more critical if he had Harrison/Wayne and didn't get to the Super Bowl.  That's why I think what Brady did is so great.  He won his Super Bowls without having the best WRs in the league.  When they gave him Moss, Welker, etc., he set records and went to the Super Bowl.  McNabb did the same thing (achieved with average or even sub par talent and went to the Super Bowl when they got him T.O.). 

I see what you are saying.  It's the standards set based on a certain POV that cause people to call him overrated and your point about him being a very QB is valid. 

If he wins the Super Bowl he'll be regarded as a great QB, until then he's just good.   

[Dos Equis]

I see what you are saying.  It's the standards set based on a certain POV that cause people to call him overrated and your point about him being a very QB is valid. 

If he wins the Super Bowl he'll be regarded as a great QB, until then he's just good.   

That's only if the standard for greatness means you win a Super Bowl.  I don't think that's the standard.  Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl. 

Marino was a great QB.  Fouts was a great QB.  There are many others who were great QBs and didn't win Super Bowls. 

[body88]

That's only if the standard for greatness means you win a Super Bowl.  I don't think that's the standard.  Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl. 

Marino was a great QB.  Fouts was a great QB.  There are many others who were great QBs and didn't win Super Bowls. 

Ageed, but did they have a tendency to choke when it was all on the line?  A great QB is not made by a superbowl or by having great stats, it's a mixture of the both, poise and superior decision making.    Right now McNabb is lacking many qualities that make a guy great and not just very good.  Currently, McNabb is very streaky in regards to his play.  Btw, the NFC east has certainly not been the best division in football for McNabb's entire tenure.   Great players make average players around them better. 

[Dos Equis]

Ageed, but did they have a tendency to choke when it was all on the line?  A great QB is not made by a superbowl or by having great stats, it's a mixture of the both, poise and superior decision making.    Right now McNabb is lacking many qualities that make a guy great and not just very good.  Currently, McNabb is very streaky in regards to his play. 

He choked in the Super Bowl.  Did he also choke in all of those playoff games the Eagles won the last 8 years?  Did he choke in every NFC Championship game?  I doubt it.  I'd tie his performance directly to the likes of Thrash, Pinkston, and Mitchell, who will never be confused with Harrison/Wayne,  Boldin/Fitzgerald, etc. 

But let's assume he is streaky.  That just means there is a flaw in his game.  Every QB has flaws.  (Except for Joe Montana.   )  I thought Manning played his worst football in the playoffs for years.  He was/is still a great QB. 

[OzmO]

That's only if the standard for greatness means you win a Super Bowl.  I don't think that's the standard.  Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl. 

Marino was a great QB.  Fouts was a great QB.  There are many others who were great QBs and didn't win Super Bowls. 

Do you think McNabb is on the same level as Marino and Fouts?

[OzmO]

That's only if the standard for greatness means you win a Super Bowl.  I don't think that's the standard.  Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl. 

Marino was a great QB.  Fouts was a great QB.  There are many others who were great QBs and didn't win Super Bowls. 

Its not my standard, of course.  But a winning record, with good stats and super bowl vics makes you a great QB almost certainly. 

[Dos Equis]

Do you think McNabb is on the same level as Marino and Fouts?

Not yet. 

[Dos Equis]

Its not my standard, of course.  But a winning record, with good stats and super bowl vics makes you a great QB almost certainly. 

I agree. 

[OzmO]

Not yet. 

I don't think he'll ever be seen in that company if he doesn't win a super bowl.  But he may compile stats to justify it by the time he's all done, who knows.  

[Dos Equis]

I don't think he'll ever be seen in that company if he doesn't win a super bowl.  But he may compile stats to justify it by the time he's all done, who knows.  

I don't think he has to be in the Marino/Fouts category to be considered great.  Those guys are really on another level. 

[Oldschool Flip]

How many come from behind wins had McNabb had? I don't know and I also feel that shows what a great QB is. Coming from behind shows moxie and focus. IMO, if a QB's team leads all the time through a game, he's untested. That's what made Montana, Brady,Elway, Manning, Staubach, etc. put on elite levels.

[body88]

He choked in the Super Bowl.  Did he also choke in all of those playoff games the Eagles won the last 8 years?  Did he choke in every NFC Championship game?  I doubt it.  I'd tie his performance directly to the likes of Thrash, Pinkston, and Mitchell, who will never be confused with Harrison/Wayne,  Boldin/Fitzgerald, etc. 

But let's assume he is streaky.  That just means there is a flaw in his game.  Every QB has flaws.  (Except for Joe Montana.   )  I thought Manning played his worst football in the playoffs for years.  He was/is still a great QB. 

The story on McNabb has been the same for years.  A guy who is a great qb, but when it comes down to it, he finds a way to stink up the joint so bad that you second guess calling him great.  He does not make players around him better, but he shows flashes of being elite for short periods.