Author Topic: Rickey Henderson, Jim Rice elected to Hall of Fame  (Read 2239 times)

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Rickey Henderson, Jim Rice elected to Hall of Fame
« on: January 12, 2009, 05:30:24 PM »
Rickey Henderson, Jim Rice elected to Hall of Fame
By MIKE FITZPATRICK, AP Baseball Writer Mike Fitzpatrick

Former Boston Red Sox player Jim Rice, left, smiles next to Red Sox president and CEO Larry Lucchino, right, after a news conference at Boston's Fenway Park, Monday, Jan. 12, 2009, held to announce that Rice was elected to the baseball Hall of Fame. Rice joins Carl Yastrzemski, Ted Williams and Bobby Doerr as the only Hall of Famers who played their entire careers for Boston.
(AP Photo/Steven Senne)



NEW YORK – Rickey Henderson dashed into the Hall of Fame on his first try, Jim Rice made it with a final swing. It's hard to imagine their induction speeches will have much in common, either. "I'm going to leave all the stories to Rickey," Rice said, confirming that his remarks in Cooperstown this summer are likely to match his personality. "Believe me, it's going to be short and quick. I don't think you need to go there and talk for 15 or 20 minutes when you can get right to the point."

That never stopped Henderson — but neither did opposing pitchers or catchers during his 25-year career.

The undisputed standard for leadoff hitters, Henderson received 94.8 percent of the vote from the Baseball Writers' Association of America in balloting announced Monday, well above the 75 percent needed.

Rice, among the game's most feared sluggers in the late 1970s and early 1980s, got 76.4 percent in his 15th and final year on the ballot after falling just shy with 72.2 percent last year.

"The only thing I can say is I'm glad it's over with," the Boston outfielder said. "I'm in there and they can't take it away."

Henderson, baseball's career leader in runs scored and stolen bases, became the 44th player elected in his first year of eligibility. Rice was only the third elected by the BBWAA in his final year, joining Red Ruffing (1967) and Ralph Kiner (1975).

The pair will be inducted into the Hall during ceremonies on July 26 in Cooperstown, N.Y. They'll be joined by former Yankees and Indians second baseman Joe Gordon, elected posthumously last month by the Veterans Committee.

"I feel great about it. It's been a long time coming," Henderson said. "I was nervous, waiting."

Henderson spoke on a conference call before boarding a flight to New York. He was rushing right along, even on this day.

Only fitting.

Next up, his highly anticipated induction speech. Known for his confounding comments, Henderson has a penchant for referring to himself in the third person — at any point during an amusing stream of sometimes indecipherable chatter.

"It's really just an honor to me. I'm really just spaced out," he said. "I haven't really thought about what I'm going to say."

Henderson was picked on 511 of 539 ballots and Rice was selected on 412, just above the 405 needed.

Rice received only 29.8 percent of the vote in 1995, when he appeared on the ballot for the first time. He initially topped 50 percent in 2000 and reached 64.8 percent in 2006 — the highest percentage for a player who wasn't elected in a later year was 63.4 by Gil Hodges in 1983, his final time on the ballot.

Some thought Rice's prickly personality and curt relationship with reporters during his playing career helped keep him out of the Hall all those years.

"I don't think I was difficult to deal with for writers. I think the writers were difficult to me," he said. "I wasn't going to badmouth my teammates. When you start talking about my teammates or what goes on outside baseball, I couldn't do that.

"I don't know why it took me so long. I don't even want to think about it," he added. "I'm just happy I'm in and that's what I'm going to cherish."

What did he learn all these years?

"Be patient and wait until the last out," Rice said. "I guess everything was just timing, because my numbers have not changed over the last 14 years."

Andre Dawson fell 44 votes short with 67 percent. He was followed by Bert Blyleven (62.7 percent), Lee Smith (44.5), Jack Morris (44.0), Tommy John (31.7) and Tim Raines (22.6). John appeared on the ballot for the final time.

Mark McGwire, stigmatized by accusations he used performance-enhancing drugs, received 118 votes (21.9 percent) in his third year of eligibility, down from the 128 votes he got in each of his first two tries.

Henderson, who played with McGwire in Oakland, said the first baseman was one of the best people he's ever been around.

"He played the game the right way to me," Henderson said. "I feel he deserves to be in the Hall of Fame."

Henderson, the 1990 AL MVP, was a 10-time All-Star who swiped 1,406 bases, one shy of 50 percent more than Lou Brock, who is in second place with 938. Henderson batted .279 with 297 homers, 1,115 RBIs, 2,190 walks and 2,295 runs. He owns the modern-day season record with 130 steals in 1982, and the career mark with 81 leadoff homers. He played for Oakland, the Yankees, Toronto, San Diego, Anaheim, the Mets, Seattle, Boston and the Dodgers.

Henderson wanted to be a football star before his mother persuaded him to give pro baseball a try, figuring it offered a better chance at a long career.

If it were up to Henderson, now 50, he'd still be playing ball.

"They said I have to be retired to go in the Hall of Fame," he said. "Maybe they give me that day or two that I come back and it wouldn't mess up anything."

Henderson wasn't sure which team's cap will go on his Hall of Fame plaque. He gets some say in the matter, but ultimately it's the Hall's decision.

Henderson was with his family when he got the call Monday and pointed out that they have been with him through "all the glory and the headaches."

"They enjoyed it probably as much as I enjoyed it, probably even more," he said.

Rice, the 1978 AL MVP, was an eight-time All-Star who hit 382 home runs in 16 seasons with the Boston Red Sox from 1974-89. He had a .298 career batting average and 1,451 RBIs, and from 1977-79 averaged .320 with 41 homers and 128 RBIs.

He becomes the fourth Hall of Famer to have spent his entire career with the Red Sox, joining fellow left fielders Ted Williams and Carl Yastrzemski, along with second baseman Bobby Doerr.

"That's I think one of the biggest accomplishments," Rice said.
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UPINTHEMGUTS

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Re: Rickey Henderson, Jim Rice elected to Hall of Fame
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2009, 05:38:01 PM »
Rick the quick was able to be Rick the stick whenever he need to be. Very disciplined underrated hitter.

What a fantastic player/athlete Rickey Henderson was. Still productive into his 40's, too. 1st ballot lock the day he retired.

Rice finally makes it in. Still on the fence as to whether he derserves to be in, though.

Geo

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Re: Rickey Henderson, Jim Rice elected to Hall of Fame
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2009, 07:39:19 PM »
Rice should have been in years ago

body88

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Re: Rickey Henderson, Jim Rice elected to Hall of Fame
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2009, 08:07:49 PM »
Rice should have been in years ago

Agreed.  The media bias kept him out.

body88

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Re: Rickey Henderson, Jim Rice elected to Hall of Fame
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2009, 08:08:24 PM »
Rick the quick was able to be Rick the stick whenever he need to be. Very disciplined underrated hitter.

What a fantastic player/athlete Rickey Henderson was. Still productive into his 40's, too. 1st ballot lock the day he retired.

Rice finally makes it in. Still on the fence as to whether he derserves to be in, though.

Why?  I know he was a dick to reporters, but I think he should have been in a long time ago. 

UPINTHEMGUTS

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Re: Rickey Henderson, Jim Rice elected to Hall of Fame
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2009, 07:50:45 AM »
cause he's a dick....

Benny B

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Re: Rickey Henderson, Jim Rice elected to Hall of Fame
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2009, 08:13:44 AM »
cause he's a dick....
not a good reason to keep him out, sorry
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Re: Rickey Henderson, Jim Rice elected to Hall of Fame
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2009, 08:22:40 AM »
Agreed.  The media bias kept him out.

Along with his not Hall worthy numbers.   Worst induction since Puckett.

The standards are dropping too much.  The Hall of Fame should be reserved for those who are the elite, and Rice was not one of them.  Good player, yes.  Great player, even.  Not great enough for the Hall of Fame, though.

Tim Raines was every bit the player Rice was, yet he got hardly any votes.  Rice got in because every voter in this region wanted him in.
Y

body88

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Re: Rickey Henderson, Jim Rice elected to Hall of Fame
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2009, 08:41:11 AM »
Along with his not Hall worthy numbers.   Worst induction since Puckett.

The standards are dropping too much.  The Hall of Fame should be reserved for those who are the elite, and Rice was not one of them.  Good player, yes.  Great player, even.  Not great enough for the Hall of Fame, though.

Tim Raines was every bit the player Rice was, yet he got hardly any votes.  Rice got in because every voter in this region wanted him in.

Thats your opinion and you have every right to have it, but the fact remains that the hall voters disagree with you, and those 500 voters have much more clout than you or I.  Congrats Jim, this was long overdue!

body88

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Re: Rickey Henderson, Jim Rice elected to Hall of Fame
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2009, 08:43:22 AM »
cause he's a dick....

Thats not a good reason.  I'm sure you think that Ray Lewis should be in the hall when his career is done, and he killed someone.

Grape Ape

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Re: Rickey Henderson, Jim Rice elected to Hall of Fame
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2009, 08:51:58 AM »
Thats your opinion and you have every right to have it, but the fact remains that the hall voters disagree with you, and those 500 voters have much more clout than you or I.  Congrats Jim, this was long overdue!

Yup.  And baseball writers sometimes seem to know less about the game than everyone else.  They routinely get the MVP voting wrong.

Rice got in by seven votes, and got crap for votes last year. So what changed?  His performance?  Nope.  There was a movement to get him elected, and it worked, and only because every writer in THIS area voted along the lines of Homerville, instead of actual analysis.

The standards have dropped.  Now, it's going to be hard to rationalize the Mattingly's and Albert Belle's of the world not getting in.  And neither of them should either.

Y

Grape Ape

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Re: Rickey Henderson, Jim Rice elected to Hall of Fame
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2009, 10:46:34 AM »
Actually, just read Neyer.  FWIW, he agrees:

Quote from: Rob Neyer
But Rice benefited from an aggressive push by the Red Sox organization and the Boston writers....
Quote

and:

Quote from: Rob Neyer
The institution's credibility took a hit yesterday, no question. But it's not the first time, and the place is still standing.
Quote

Yes, it's just another man's opinion, but he is a baseball expert with a strong understanding of statistics, not only stand alone, but in context against others.
Y

mass 04

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Re: Rickey Henderson, Jim Rice elected to Hall of Fame
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2009, 01:43:13 PM »
All the sabermatrics virgins pull out their black ink, grey ink, win share bullshit. The fact of the matter is Rice dominated his era, from 74-89 he was first in the AL in home runs, total bases and rbi's. Second in runs produced and slugging, third in Batting average, OPS and hits. MVP in 78 and top 5 in MVP voting for 6 straight years. He's a HOF'er.

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Re: Rickey Henderson, Jim Rice elected to Hall of Fame
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2009, 01:56:00 PM »
Rickey Henderson is the "unlooked" at juicer of the A's of the 90's. And he was the most obvious.

body88

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Re: Rickey Henderson, Jim Rice elected to Hall of Fame
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2009, 02:14:16 PM »
Actually, just read Neyer.  FWIW, he agrees:

Quote from: Rob Neyer
But Rice benefited from an aggressive push by the Red Sox organization and the Boston writers....
Quote

and:

Quote from: Rob Neyer
The institution's credibility took a hit yesterday, no question. But it's not the first time, and the place is still standing.
Quote

Yes, it's just another man's opinion, but he is a baseball expert with a strong understanding of statistics, not only stand alone, but in context against others.


Good for him.  He's wrong.  Mass makes some good points below.  It's not like it matters, Rice is a HOF now, plain and simple.

mass 04

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Re: Rickey Henderson, Jim Rice elected to Hall of Fame
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2009, 02:14:30 PM »
If his career didn't end so soon he'd easily have 400+homers, 1500 rbi, close to 3,000 hits. The guy was a beast in the middle of the lineup. I'd put his peak years up against anyone not named Ruth, Bonds or Williams. I'm not a homer either before the accusations start. ;D

body88

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Re: Rickey Henderson, Jim Rice elected to Hall of Fame
« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2009, 07:24:55 PM »
If his career didn't end so soon he'd easily have 400+homers, 1500 rbi, close to 3,000 hits. The guy was a beast in the middle of the lineup. I'd put his peak years up against anyone not named Ruth, Bonds or Williams. I'm not a homer either before the accusations start. ;D


Wasn't he top five in MVP voting for 10 years straight?

Geo

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Re: Rickey Henderson, Jim Rice elected to Hall of Fame
« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2009, 07:40:02 PM »
cause he's a dick....

yeah but he hit for power with decent average and was a pretty decent glove

mass 04

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Re: Rickey Henderson, Jim Rice elected to Hall of Fame
« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2009, 07:46:28 PM »

Wasn't he top five in MVP voting for 10 years straight?
Maybe. I read so many stats i almost had a seizure. ;D Who cares if he was a dick? The hall is filled with racists, alcoholics, etc.. should they kick them out?

Grape Ape

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Re: Rickey Henderson, Jim Rice elected to Hall of Fame
« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2009, 07:13:50 AM »

Wasn't he top five in MVP voting for 10 years straight?

5 times in a 12 year span.
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Grape Ape

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Re: Rickey Henderson, Jim Rice elected to Hall of Fame
« Reply #20 on: January 14, 2009, 07:20:58 AM »
All the sabermatrics virgins pull out their black ink, grey ink, win share bullshit. The fact of the matter is Rice dominated his era, from 74-89 he was first in the AL in home runs, total bases and rbi's. Second in runs produced and slugging, third in Batting average, OPS and hits. MVP in 78 and top 5 in MVP voting for 6 straight years. He's a HOF'er.

It's got nothing to do with extreme SABR stats.  Rice dominated 77-79, and had additional beastly years after that, although not in succession.   As stated, he was a great player.  But look at Albert Belle's numbers from 94-99, they're good, if not better than the streaky years Rice put together.  Should Belle be in the Hall?

My problem is that for 15 or so year, the committee rejected Rice.  But, thanks to a sox-generated PR  campaign, and absolutely homer voting by the Boston media, he gets in this year.  Would Tony Massrotti vote Rice in if he played for the Royals or the Yankees?  No way.

The Hall should be for the elite players of the game.  Rice was not one of them.  I hope this doesn't open the door for the Belle's and Mattingly's of baseball.

Y

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Re: Rickey Henderson, Jim Rice elected to Hall of Fame
« Reply #21 on: January 14, 2009, 08:01:14 AM »
as a yankee fan growing up rice and brett were yankee killers,i think rice was the most feared hitter with reggie in the mid to late seventies in american league.that bosox 78 team was probably better than any team they have produced till there world series teams.i remember,that team fully rice,lynn,yaz.hobson,burleson,remy,scott,fisk,eck,tiant,good talent

mass 04

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Re: Rickey Henderson, Jim Rice elected to Hall of Fame
« Reply #22 on: January 14, 2009, 08:02:00 AM »
as a yankee fan growing up rice and brett were yankee killers,i think rice was the most feared hitter with reggie in the mid to late seventies in american league.that bosox 78 team was probably better than any team they have produced till there world series teams.i remember,that team fully rice,lynn,yaz.hobson,burleson,remy,scott,fisk,eck,tiant,good talent
and they still choked. ;D

body88

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Re: Rickey Henderson, Jim Rice elected to Hall of Fame
« Reply #23 on: January 14, 2009, 08:03:30 AM »
It's got nothing to do with extreme SABR stats.  Rice dominated 77-79, and had additional beastly years after that, although not in succession.   As stated, he was a great player.  But look at Albert Belle's numbers from 94-99, they're good, if not better than the streaky years Rice put together.  Should Belle be in the Hall?

My problem is that for 15 or so year, the committee rejected Rice.  But, thanks to a sox-generated PR  campaign, and absolutely homer voting by the Boston media, he gets in this year.  Would Tony Massrotti vote Rice in if he played for the Royals or the Yankees?  No way.

The Hall should be for the elite players of the game.  Rice was not one of them.  I hope this doesn't open the door for the Belle's and Mattingly's of baseball.




Rice was waiting for 15 years because 1.) He was an ASSHOLE to the media and 2.) The steroid era happened and people started seeing guys hit 70 hr's and put up crazy stats.  Like you they compared these monster to the guys still on the ballet.  It sounds like you have a problem with the Boston media in general

Grape Ape

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Re: Rickey Henderson, Jim Rice elected to Hall of Fame
« Reply #24 on: January 14, 2009, 08:18:15 AM »

Rice was waiting for 15 years because 1.) He was an ASSHOLE to the media and 2.) The steroid era happened and people started seeing guys hit 70 hr's and put up crazy stats.  Like you they compared these monster to the guys still on the ballet.  It sounds like you have a problem with the Boston media in general

I don't think that the writers collective decided to all wait 15 years to punish him for being a jerk.  This was a groundswell movement, started by the sox FO.  The voters just jumped on board.

My argument against Rice is, truthfully, totally unrelated to the team he played for.  I would never disagree with the future decision that puts Manny Ramirez in the Hall.  I just don't consider him elite, which is what I think the Hall is all about.

As for the Boston media as a whole, I don't have a problem.  I like listening to Callahan, and for the most part, enjoy Buckley's, and sometimes, Ryan's stuff.

But the crap spewed out by Mazzarotti and Cafardo are a totally different story.........

Y