Author Topic: top ranked boxer vs. best MMA fighters who wins (Read 19484 times)

SquatAss · « **Reply #100 on:** January 23, 2009, 02:21:32 PM »

Quote from: Mussolini on January 23, 2009, 01:35:51 PM

Right, and a strike is a strike, so there no difference between Muay Thai and Tae Kwon do, according to your brilliant logic.

Oleg Taktorov was a master of leg locks.

IMO Sambo > BJJ as Sambo covers everything, BJJ has little focus on leg locks.

Please explain to me the fundamental difference in applying a knee bar or a heel lock in sambo and BJJ. Let's see what you can come up with.

And while you're at it you might as well explain to me why the ratio of fights finished by an arm lock vs fight finished by a leg lock is probably close to 100:1 if not more. That might give you a clue why the focus of BJJ isn't on leg locks genius.

Mussolini · « **Reply #101 on:** January 23, 2009, 10:18:31 PM »

Easy there rough rider, its the same difference as applying a kimura from BJJ-catch wrestling-Sambo ect. There is no real difference, other than what is focused on in training. Off the top of my head I recall Oleg Knee barring Mark Kerr recently, Josh Barnett finishing Pawel Nastula witha ankle lock and Yoshida with a heel hook, and Arlovski finished Big Tim with a heel hook. Arm/shoulder locks are used alot more frequently but the good catch wrestlers and Sambo guys are still effective with leg/ankle locks.

Are you a fighter ?

gracie bjj · « **Reply #102 on:** January 23, 2009, 11:33:25 PM »

put it this way,floyd mayweather wouldnt last 30 seconds against bj penn,gomi ect in a mma match.mayweather would be subbed so quick he wouldnt even know what happened.rickson and rorion gracie both challenged tyson in 93 or so and tysons camp never responded,tysons camp knew they had everything to lose,tyson getting his ass kicked by a 175lb slim brazilian guy wouldnt be to good for tysons future,lol.boxers got destroyed in the earlier ufc,s against grapplers,just check the ufc fight stats.boxers are good at what they do but boxing is not an efficiant self defense art in combat,its great combined with bjj but by itself youll be in deep shit if a wrestler or bjj grabs you if you miss your one punch chance

SquatAss · « **Reply #103 on:** January 24, 2009, 12:16:44 AM »

Quote from: Mussolini on January 23, 2009, 10:18:31 PM

Easy there rough rider, its the same difference as applying a kimura from BJJ-catch wrestling-Sambo ect. There is no real difference, other than what is focused on in training. Off the top of my head I recall Oleg Knee barring Mark Kerr recently, Josh Barnett finishing Pawel Nastula witha ankle lock and Yoshida with a heel hook, and Arlovski finished Big Tim with a heel hook. Arm/shoulder locks are used alot more frequently but the good catch wrestlers and Sambo guys are still effective with leg/ankle locks.

Are you a fighter ?

No I'm not.

James Phoenix · « **Reply #104 on:** January 24, 2009, 01:00:53 AM »

Quote from: gracie bjj on January 23, 2009, 11:33:25 PM

put it this way,floyd mayweather wouldnt last 30 seconds against bj penn,gomi ect in a mma match...

Exactly. Why is this even a debate?

The very best boxers would still lose to grapplers because they have no take down defence, and their striking range is limited. The only way a boxer would win is if, like someone said, the MMA guy let his ego get the better of him and decided to trade blows. The idea of Evander Holyfield evading the take down attempts of a division 1 wrestler is silly. He wouldn't know what to do, and even some training in take down defence wouldn't make up for the skill gap in that particular aspect of fighting. He would be taken down like any other boxer that attempted to fight a grappler in an MMA setting. Ask Kimbo.

Nobody cares about the idea of MMA guys making the transition to boxing, because boxing is a less accurate representation of a real fight due to lack of grappling, kicking, etc. People want to know who the better fighters are, and outside of a 1-on-1 street fight, an MMA arena is the most logical place to determine that.

I concede that boxers make more money than MMA fighters - though I'm not sure what that has to do with the topic.

americanbulldog · « **Reply #105 on:** January 24, 2009, 01:20:05 AM »

Adam Corolla said it best tonight on BDSSP. When asked who was tougher, he said,"Two and a Half words, Ground N Pound. Boxers have eight counts, MMA fighters have guys continuing the fight on the ground and elbowing the temple."

Best boxer in the world would be crazy to fight the equivalent in the same weight class from MMA.

UGMT · « **Reply #106 on:** January 24, 2009, 05:17:26 AM »

I don't know why everyone on this board thinks Tyson was the greatest boxer and would therefore do well in MMA. The dude was an absolute killing machine don't get me wrong, but most boxing experts don't put him anywhere near being the greatest ever. I mean ESPN had him at # 50 on their 50 greatest boxers of all time list. Again I'm not trying to say Tyson in his prime wasn't spectacular however If you asked me to name 5 boxers from the catalog of boxing history who I thought would do well in MMA, I don't think I would put him in there.

Mussolini · « **Reply #107 on:** January 24, 2009, 06:08:43 AM »

Quote from: SquatAss on January 24, 2009, 12:16:44 AM

No I'm not.

didnt think so

Mussolini · « **Reply #108 on:** January 24, 2009, 06:11:07 AM »

Quote from: UGMT on January 24, 2009, 05:17:26 AM

I don't know why everyone on this board thinks Tyson was the greatest boxer and would therefore do well in MMA. The dude was an absolute killing machine don't get me wrong, but most boxing experts don't put him anywhere near being the greatest ever. I mean ESPN had him at # 50 on their 50 greatest boxers of all time list. Again I'm not trying to say Tyson in his prime wasn't spectacular however If you asked me to name 5 boxers from the catalog of boxing history who I thought would do well in MMA, I don't think I would put him in there.

who do you feel are the best boxers of all time?

UGMT · « **Reply #109 on:** January 24, 2009, 06:20:23 AM »

Sugar Ray Leonard, Sugar Ray Robinson, Muhammad Ali, Roberto Duran, JCC, JMM, Bernard Hopkins to name a few of my favorites.

fredrollon · « **Reply #110 on:** January 24, 2009, 06:27:29 AM »

Quote from: UGMT on January 24, 2009, 05:17:26 AM

I don't know why everyone on this board thinks Tyson was the greatest boxer and would therefore do well in MMA. The dude was an absolute killing machine don't get me wrong, but most boxing experts don't put him anywhere near being the greatest ever. I mean ESPN had him at # 50 on their 50 greatest boxers of all time list. Again I'm not trying to say Tyson in his prime wasn't spectacular however If you asked me to name 5 boxers from the catalog of boxing history who I thought would do well in MMA, I don't think I would put him in there.

First of all he is a heavyweight.The most effective fighters-not necessarily the best- are found in the heavyweight division.In his very short prime, he was the most powerful and devastating combination puncher in the history of heavyweight boxing.So he had the ability to hurt and quickly take out his opponent.Compared,say,to someone like say Ali, Tyson had a low centre of gravity and an incredible uppercut and bodypunching skills,which would be useful against takedowns. I would say the big explosive punchers like Foreman or Lewis would also be quite effective,but they are tall men.

Pecs · « **Reply #111 on:** January 24, 2009, 06:35:50 AM »

mma fighters FIGHT, boxers BOX. simple as that.
boxing is a pure sport. and yes, it takes lots of skill and discipline

SquatAss · « **Reply #112 on:** January 24, 2009, 08:32:10 AM »

Quote from: Mussolini on January 24, 2009, 06:08:43 AM

didnt think so

James Phoenix · « **Reply #113 on:** January 24, 2009, 12:51:48 PM »

Quote from: americanbulldog on January 24, 2009, 01:20:05 AM

Adam Corolla said it best tonight on BDSSP. When asked who was tougher, he said,"Two and a Half words, Ground N Pound. Boxers have eight counts, MMA fighters have guys continuing the fight on the ground and elbowing the temple."

Best boxer in the world would be crazy to fight the equivalent in the same weight class from MMA.

I wouldn't go so far as to say it's "crazy", but yes, the point is made.
Telling words, since Adam is a former boxing trainer.

I know you like the BJJ, but sometimes you go overboard with hyperbolic statements defending your style.

Quote from: UGMT on January 24, 2009, 05:17:26 AM

I don't know why everyone on this board thinks Tyson was the greatest boxer and would therefore do well in MMA. The dude was an absolute killing machine don't get me wrong, but most boxing experts don't put him anywhere near being the greatest ever. I mean ESPN had him at # 50 on their 50 greatest boxers of all time list. Again I'm not trying to say Tyson in his prime wasn't spectacular however If you asked me to name 5 boxers from the catalog of boxing history who I thought would do well in MMA, I don't think I would put him in there.

They think he's the greatest because his power allowed him to look very impressive against a weak heavyweight division.
I certainly don't think he was the greatest, and I've argued that on here before.

The same topics come up on here all the time.

luvvsuNOT · « **Reply #114 on:** January 24, 2009, 02:22:42 PM »

Quote from: UGMT on January 24, 2009, 05:17:26 AM

I don't know why everyone on this board thinks Tyson was the greatest boxer and would therefore do well in MMA. The dude was an absolute killing machine don't get me wrong, but most boxing experts don't put him anywhere near being the greatest ever. I mean ESPN had him at # 50 on their 50 greatest boxers of all time list. Again I'm not trying to say Tyson in his prime wasn't spectacular however If you asked me to name 5 boxers from the catalog of boxing history who I thought would do well in MMA, I don't think I would put him in there.

If Cus D'Amato didn't die and allow Don King to get his meat hooks into the boy (and he was a boy at the time) he COULDA been one of the greatest. Tyson always listened to Cus and was the only one who any real control and authority over the beast. And Cus was gold all the way. Pure gold

fredrollon · « **Reply #115 on:** January 24, 2009, 08:41:27 PM »

Quote from: James Phoenix on January 24, 2009, 12:51:48 PM

I wouldn't go so far as to say it's "crazy", but yes, the point is made.
Telling words, since Adam is a former boxing trainer.

I know you like the BJJ, but sometimes you go overboard with hyperbolic statements defending your style.

They think he's the greatest because his power allowed him to look very impressive against a weak heavyweight division.
I certainly don't think he was the greatest, and I've argued that on here before.

The same topics come up on here all the time.

Tyson wasn't the greatest heavyweight.No.But in his peak years he was very hard to hit clean,had a great jab and great counterpunching and combination skills.He was a great heavyweight.

Hypo · « **Reply #116 on:** January 26, 2009, 03:26:33 PM »

Quote from: Mussolini on January 23, 2009, 10:18:31 PM

Easy there rough rider, its the same difference as applying a kimura from BJJ-catch wrestling-Sambo ect. There is no real difference, other than what is focused on in training. Off the top of my head I recall Oleg Knee barring Mark Kerr recently, Josh Barnett finishing Pawel Nastula witha ankle lock and Yoshida with a heel hook, and Arlovski finished Big Tim with a heel hook. Arm/shoulder locks are used alot more frequently but the good catch wrestlers and Sambo guys are still effective with leg/ankle locks.

Are you a fighter ?

Mussolini knows his shit...

Option D · « **Reply #117 on:** January 26, 2009, 03:30:48 PM »

Quote from: Swede! on January 22, 2009, 01:20:52 PM

Lesnar would probably take tyson even standing up

Mean right hand

I think mike at 20 would knock Brocks Block off...could be wrong.. but he was strong and fast...Lesnar wouldnt know what was comming...No combos or nothing...just one left to the chin....down goes brock

Mussolini · « **Reply #118 on:** January 26, 2009, 05:29:44 PM »

Quote from: Hypo on January 26, 2009, 03:26:33 PM

Mussolini knows his shit...

I've done a few pro fights, lost my last one. I had pics of me getting my face smashed on here awhile back

Mussolini · « **Reply #119 on:** January 26, 2009, 07:49:08 PM »

Anyone else ever fought MMA on here?

big L dawg · « **Reply #120 on:** January 26, 2009, 08:06:28 PM »

Quote from: Mussolini on January 26, 2009, 07:49:08 PM

Anyone else ever fought MMA on here?

are you kidding me everyone is training to be a cage fighter these days

most I've met are pretty tuff dudes too $:-\$

imarcus · « **Reply #121 on:** February 11, 2009, 12:06:55 AM »

GSP who is one of the best MMA Guys got knocked out by a bum puncher MATT SERRA imagine if that was a pro fighter like Mayweather or Paqiauo wearing five ounce gloves, he'd still be sleeping. Try using MMA ground fighting in a bar fight and you'll get booted in the head by your opponents friend in the crowd never seen a bar fight end with a leg lock.. MOST K1 guys started in boxing and got there ass kicked and now fight for peanuts. A great boxer could knock out 2or 3 guys easily in a street fight. Good luck to the MMA guy that tries that.

James Phoenix · « **Reply #122 on:** February 11, 2009, 12:32:16 AM »

Most K-1 fighters did not start as boxers.

And in fact, everytime boxers tried to compete in K-1 they got owned - badly.

imarcus · « **Reply #123 on:** February 11, 2009, 01:23:34 AM »

Mighty Mo had his jaw broken in his first boxing match. Ray Sefo was knocked almost into a coma in a boxing match. Lebanner suffered the same fate in boxing. Fighting no name boxers yet these guys are at or near the top in K1. Why wouldn't you try boxing first it would only make sense to fight with the potential of making a fortune. Instead of fighting for food. Maurice Smith K1 RULED UFC for some time knocking silly great wrestlers like Mark Steroid Coleman. Lebanner would destroy Smith and get murdered by Klitcko. The only boxers I've seen in K1 are washed up over 40, overweight out of shape guys like Botha who still beat Lebanner.Or Ray Mercer who probably got paid a few bucks to lose in order to try to legitimize K1. Top Boxers could get paid more signing autographs than fighting K1 why bother....St.PIERRE against Mayweather in a 10FT X10FT RING MMA rules MAYWEATHER lasts at least 1 or 2 minutes. Boxing rules 5 ounce gloves GSP Lasts no longer than 15 to 20 seconds including the 10 count. Bar fight 3on 3 MMa vs Boxing = MMA R.I.P.

fredrollon · « **Reply #124 on:** February 11, 2009, 02:31:08 PM »

Quote from: James Phoenix on February 11, 2009, 12:32:16 AM

Most K-1 fighters did not start as boxers.

And in fact, everytime boxers tried to compete in K-1 they got owned - badly.

Rather debatable assumption.Sometimes even Francois Botha performed creditably in K1:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x207bo

Was Bonjasky still considered an elite K1 fighter in 2004?

Of K-1 fighters who tried to make a transition into the relatively lucrative world of boxing Ray Sefo was a notable failure.

&feature=related[/youtube]

Muay Thai fighters like Samart Payakaroon or Khaosai Galaxy did manage to make a successful transtion into boxing in their late teens/very early twenties.Smart is considered one of the very greatest ever Muay Thai fighters.
World Champion Vitali Klitschko was also an amateur kickboxer as a teen.