nolvadex?

[theworm]

Everyone seems to like other anti-estrogens better (arimidex, etc), but if using a test only cycle, isn;t nolva pretty good?

I ask, cause Nolva increased HDL, where the others decrease HDL, so its another added benefit.

[tbombz]

for health, a serm would be better than an ai.

for gains, a ai would be better than a serm.

for your wallet, a serm would be better than an ai.


for libido, gains, skin, wallet, etc...no serm or ai at all would be best.

[Exal]

all wrong tbombz

Using a serm would mean that you have alot more than your natural estrogen floating around in your body, which is bad, very bad.

using an AI will help you keep estrogen as close to natural as possible which is good, very good

you get the picture or you want me to go into details?

[tbombz]

all wrong tbombz

Using a serm would mean that you have alot more than your natural estrogen floating around in your body, which is bad, very bad.

using an AI will help you keep estrogen as close to natural as possible which is good, very good

you get the picture or you want me to go into details?

first of all, your not keeping estrogen close to normal unless your doing numerous blood tests along with numrous expiremntal dosegaes of ai, along with numerous doseages and combos of AAS....   other wise you have NO IDEA

ssecond of all, estrogen is a very good thing.

[Exal]

no you can very easily control estrogen within acceptable parameters solely on feel, once you start getting sore joints and reduced libido you lower the dosage of your ai till you reach a desired level

second of all in what world do you live in where higher than normal levels of estrogen are good for males?

effects include, higher blood pressure, increased risk of heart attack or stroke, has been implicated as a cause of benign prostatic hypertrophy (BPH), increased fatty deposits in the abdomen, huge increase in SHBG, increased risk of diabetes, fucks up your lipid profile, increased risk of cancer in many tissues and it makes your hpta shut down even harder because estrogen is the main negative feedback in the hpta

[tbombz]

no you can very easily control estrogen within acceptable parameters solely on feel, once you start getting sore joints and reduced libido you lower the dosage of your ai till you reach a desired level

second of all in what world do you live in where higher than normal levels of estrogen are good for males?

effects include, higher blood pressure, increased risk of heart attack or stroke, has been implicated as a cause of benign prostatic hypertrophy (BPH), increased fatty deposits in the abdomen, huge increase in SHBG, increased risk of diabetes, fucks up your lipid profile, increased risk of cancer in many tissues and it makes your hpta shut down even harder because estrogen is the main negative feedback in the hpta

estrogen is great for gains, didnt say it was great for health.

i said a serm was better for health than an ai.


yes, the serm allows estro,which can have negative efects in high amounts,  but that estro is blocked from being able to take action in the body.

[Exal]

it's blocked from taking effect on your receptors in your breast tissue(in the case of BREAST CANCER medicine, nolvadex/clomid), it doesn't block the effect in the whole body :O

and how is a serm better than an AI? please do explain, arimidex has a bad effect on your lipids, but alot of other AIs don't

[tbombz]

it's blocked from taking effect on your receptors in your breast tissue(in the case of BREAST CANCER medicine, nolvadex/clomid), it doesn't block the effect in the whole body :O

and how is a serm better than an AI? please do explain, arimidex has a bad effect on your lipids, but alot of other AIs don't

im pretty sure than the serm blocks estrogen from having any effect on muscle, or having any non-estrogen receptor effects.     

look at serms effects on gh and igf-1.



serm BETTER than ai ? nah, didnt say that. just think its better for health.  and i think adex effects cholestrol the same way all ai do. could be wrong on that though, have been before on other things,.

[Exal]

a serm is just a estrogen-like molecule that binds stronger to specific estrogen recepters than estrogen itself. so it doesn't block estrogen all over your body, if it did that you'd have very bad adverse effects

nolvadex has been proven to have an effect on IGF-1 levels in female rats, no studies have been made(AFAIK) on humans

arimidex is the only AI that has been proven to have adverse effects on your cholesterol levels in high doses

[elite_lifter]

AI=Kill gains
Nolvadex=Only if itchy nipples or sore nipples

Otherwise throw that garbage away!

Bombz is right, there is noooo way to know how much of an AI to use to bring estro close to normal unless continuously bloodtesting. Ever done a cycle Exal?

[Exal]

anyways what I'm trying to say is, look at this hypothetical situation

you have run nolvadex during your whole cycle to prevent gyno

you have run a 12 weeker of 500mg test e/w

let's say you run nolvadex through week 13-19 this means the 3 weeks it takes for the testosterone to be out of your system and 4 weeks of pct with nolva only

throughout your cycle and throughout your pct your estrogen levels are elevated way beyond natural conditions meaning that you hpta doesn't even consider starting again before the elevated estrogens levels normalise which would probably happen around week 17-18 if you're lucky

this means that the actual time that the pct get's to work to repair your hpta is reduced to 1 week again this is if you're lucky

all this could have been prevented by keeping estrogen in check by running an AI during the cycle and the first 1-2 weeks of pct

edit: yes I have done a cycle as a personal project of interest for my studies, with weekly blood tests