Author Topic: Novedex or 6oxo (Read 9922 times)

dogpound · « **on:** January 29, 2009, 08:54:02 AM »

Wondering which is better, or if they are about the same thing. Anybody have any experience with them? 11oxo is supposed to be better, but more expensive.

darksol · « **Reply #1 on:** February 04, 2009, 12:17:56 AM »

Novadex works, But you will loose all your estogen from taking it. Test levels definately are higher though. If you want to feel like an animal in the gym, and an asshole to the ladies, I would highly recommend it

calfzilla · « **Reply #2 on:** February 04, 2009, 12:23:24 AM »

I started a thread like this several months ago and the guys told me to buy Novedex XT over 6oxo. I bought it but don't plan on using it till April.

Stubborn · « **Reply #3 on:** February 05, 2009, 12:37:09 AM »

A friend recommended Novedex to me and I was not too disappointed. It does work. I didnt notice mood swings or anything of the sort but the most noticable thing for me was better sleep. Not sure why but I always knocked right out and felt well rested.

dogpound · « **Reply #4 on:** February 05, 2009, 09:35:36 AM »

Quote from: Lift4Size on February 05, 2009, 12:37:09 AM

A friend recommended Novedex to me and I was not too disappointed. It does work. I didnt notice mood swings or anything of the sort but the most noticable thing for me was better sleep. Not sure why but I always knocked right out and felt well rested.

I was wondering if you must take it at night. I guess it would be better if it makes you tired. I just ordered it and should have it by Monday.

littleguns · « **Reply #5 on:** February 05, 2009, 10:25:24 AM »

Are you looking for a PCT or what exactly?

If PCT try Iforce Reversitol...supposedly very good..all in one

dogpound · « **Reply #6 on:** February 05, 2009, 10:43:53 AM »

I'm not using it for pct. Just hoping it will add a little strength. I am going to take it with epistane.

Van_Bilderass · « **Reply #7 on:** February 05, 2009, 01:15:36 PM »

Quote from: dogpound on January 29, 2009, 08:54:02 AM

Wondering which is better, or if they are about the same thing. Anybody have any experience with them? 11oxo is supposed to be better, but more expensive.

I'm pretty sure neither of these reduce estrogen! 6-OXO actually increases estrogen!

I'm no chemist but I don't trust the data on the fantastic test elevations you're supposed to get from Novadex.

calfzilla · « **Reply #8 on:** February 05, 2009, 02:56:54 PM »

Quote from: dogpound on February 05, 2009, 10:43:53 AM

I'm not using it for pct. Just hoping it will add a little strength. I am going to take it with epistane.

Not quite sure maybe someone else can chime in but you shouldn't do this because epistane is a steroid and an anit estrogen. You would be taking 2 anti e's. Maybe save the Novedex for after your epistane cycle.

powerpack · « **Reply #9 on:** February 08, 2009, 09:24:40 AM »

Quote from: calfzilla on February 05, 2009, 02:56:54 PM

Not quite sure maybe someone else can chime in but you shouldn't do this because epistane is a steroid and an anit estrogen. You would be taking 2 anti e's. Maybe save the Novedex for after your epistane cycle.

He is right, Epistane is made from Epistonal a drug given to men with breast cancer.
It is an anti estrogen steroid.
I would also save and use the NOVEDEX XT after the cycle of Epistane

suckmymuscle · « **Reply #10 on:** February 08, 2009, 02:03:01 PM »

Quote from: dogpound on January 29, 2009, 08:54:02 AM

Novaldex or 6-oxo?

Neither. Chrysin if you can find it. As for tamoxifene vs 6-oxo, tamoxifene is more potent on a miligram basis, but the body builds some toleration to it over time, which doesen't happen with 6-oxo. Notwithstanding, tamoxifene is still better. If I could get either, I would go for Nolvadex.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

The ChemistV2 · « **Reply #11 on:** February 08, 2009, 02:08:17 PM »

Quote from: suckmymuscle on February 08, 2009, 02:03:01 PM

Neither. Chrysin if you can find it. As for tamoxifene vs 6-oxo, tamoxifene is more potent on a miligram basis, but the body builds some toleration to it over time, which doesen't happen with 6-oxo. Notwithstanding, tamoxifene is still better. If I could get either, I would go for Nolvadex.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

I have gotten pretty good results cycling 6-oxo on and off for several yaers. I have tried Sci-Fit's Chrysin, since they use the highest dose of it and their products are usually high quality. I can't say I noticed much effect from it. Have you personally experienced good results with Chrysin? If so, what brand?

suckmymuscle · « **Reply #12 on:** February 09, 2009, 11:42:05 AM »

Quote from: The ChemistV2 on February 08, 2009, 02:08:17 PM

I have gotten pretty good results cycling 6-oxo on and off for several yaers. I have tried Sci-Fit's Chrysin, since they use the highest dose of it and their products are usually high quality. I can't say I noticed much effect from it. Have you personally experienced good results with Chrysin? If so, what brand?

Ok. there's another post of yours on this very topic that I would like to adress but forgot. Anyway, the evidence you are giving is anecdotal. I am just telling what is in the scientific literature that, of all the non-prescription anti-estrogen, chrysin is the most effective on a miligram basis and has the highest bioavailability, because only about 20% of it is altered after first passage metabolism in the liver, meaning that more of it actually gets into the bloodstream and, thus, gets to bind to aromatase. 6-OXO doesen't seem to be as bioavailable or potent in the same dosage.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

Necrosis · « **Reply #13 on:** February 09, 2009, 01:15:24 PM »

Quote from: suckmymuscle on February 09, 2009, 11:42:05 AM

Ok. there's another post of yours on this very topic that I would like to adress but forgot. Anyway, the evidence you are giving is anecdotal. I am just telling what is in the scientific literature that, of all the non-prescription anti-estrogen, chrysin is the most effective on a miligram basis and has the highest bioavailability, because only about 20% of it is altered after first passage metabolism in the liver, meaning that more of it actually gets into the bloodstream and, thus, gets to bind to aromatase. 6-OXO doesen't seem to be as bioavailable or potent in the same dosage.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

more so then formestane and ATD.... i would doubt that.... but i havent read much lit on chrysin. post the studies if you get the chance.

DK II · « **Reply #14 on:** February 10, 2009, 01:08:59 AM »

Quote from: suckmymuscle on February 09, 2009, 11:42:05 AM

Ok. there's another post of yours on this very topic that I would like to adress but forgot. Anyway, the evidence you are giving is anecdotal. I am just telling what is in the scientific literature that, of all the non-prescription anti-estrogen, chrysin is the most effective on a miligram basis and has the highest bioavailability, because only about 20% of it is altered after first passage metabolism in the liver, meaning that more of it actually gets into the bloodstream and, thus, gets to bind to aromatase. 6-OXO doesen't seem to be as bioavailable or potent in the same dosage.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

How much chrysin do you recommend?

DK II · « **Reply #15 on:** February 10, 2009, 01:13:18 AM »

Found this:

Chrysin was once believed to be an effective aromatase inhibitor, decreasing the levels of estrogen in the body. However, there is growing consensus that chrysin has no effect on estrogen levels in either animals or humans. [5]. Early evidence was reported in the early 1980s through in vitro studies (in the laboratory, as opposed to in the body) [6][7][8] [9][10] [11][12]. Unfortunately, follow-up studies determined that cell membranes effectively block chrysin from entering the cells and having any effect at all on estrogen levels in biological organisms [13][14][15]. In vivo (in the body) studies involving biological organisms lend support to the observation that chrysin has no effect on estrogen levels, but may have other detrimental effects to the body, particularly to thyroid function [16]. For instance, a 30 day study administered chrysin to four groups of mice both orally and via injection to examine chrysin's effect on serum estrogen levels. The results showed that chrysin had no effect on estrogen levels. Further, the mice treated with chrysin became considerably fatter, possibly due to chrysin's ability to disrupt thyroid function.[17]. Another study on rats administered 50 mg of chrysin per kg body weight, considerably more than found in dietary supplements. Chrysin was found to have no ability to inhibit aromatase, possibly due to poor aborption or bioavailability [18].

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysin

suckmymuscle · « **Reply #16 on:** February 10, 2009, 11:58:37 AM »

Quote from: DonkeyKong on February 10, 2009, 01:13:18 AM

Found this:

Chrysin was once believed to be an effective aromatase inhibitor, decreasing the levels of estrogen in the body. However, there is growing consensus that chrysin has no effect on estrogen levels in either animals or humans. [5]. Early evidence was reported in the early 1980s through in vitro studies (in the laboratory, as opposed to in the body) [6][7][8] [9][10] [11][12]. Unfortunately, follow-up studies determined that cell membranes effectively block chrysin from entering the cells and having any effect at all on estrogen levels in biological organisms [13][14][15]. In vivo (in the body) studies involving biological organisms lend support to the observation that chrysin has no effect on estrogen levels, but may have other detrimental effects to the body, particularly to thyroid function [16]. For instance, a 30 day study administered chrysin to four groups of mice both orally and via injection to examine chrysin's effect on serum estrogen levels. The results showed that chrysin had no effect on estrogen levels. Further, the mice treated with chrysin became considerably fatter, possibly due to chrysin's ability to disrupt thyroid function.[17]. Another study on rats administered 50 mg of chrysin per kg body weight, considerably more than found in dietary supplements. Chrysin was found to have no ability to inhibit aromatase, possibly due to poor aborption or bioavailability [18].

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysin

Interesting. I would be greatly interested in knowing the methodologies of the studies that concluded that chrysin doesen't work. I was reading the cliffnotes and then I did a basic search for the studies mentioned, and there were no references for any of them. I would be interested to know how they determined that crysin does not penetrate cell membranes, as this would involve chromatography and isotope tracing procedures that are simply too expensive to be done regarding a supplement - this kind of hardcore study about the pharmacodynamics of a compound is usually only done on prescription medications, and only because regulatory agencies such as the FDA demand it. Personally, I did get some boost in strengh and energy from chrysin, but of course it could be a placebo effect.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

davemd · « **Reply #17 on:** February 11, 2009, 04:32:19 AM »

Has anybody heard of a product Estrobol by Global Anabolics? I saw this in vitamin shoppe. It contains Calcium D Glucarate, Hespertin,Chrysin,Indole-3-Carbinol,Black Theatheaflavins, white button mushrooms,Lignans.

Fancy Bottle and claims anti-estrogen effect. Snake oil or has someone had good results?

DK II · « **Reply #18 on:** February 11, 2009, 05:08:06 AM »

Quote from: davemd on February 11, 2009, 04:32:19 AM

Has anybody heard of a product Estrobol by Global Anabolics? I saw this in vitamin shoppe. It contains Calcium D Glucarate, Hespertin,Chrysin,Indole-3-Carbinol,Black Theatheaflavins, white button mushrooms,Lignans.

Fancy Bottle and claims anti-estrogen effect. Snake oil or has someone had good results?

3... 2... 1... until davemd's other account posts how great his product is.

davemd · « **Reply #19 on:** February 11, 2009, 06:23:03 AM »

Not true I have no association with the product. Just asking a question

DK II · « **Reply #20 on:** February 11, 2009, 06:26:17 AM »

Quote from: davemd on February 11, 2009, 06:23:03 AM

Not true I have no association with the product. Just asking a question

calm down, i was just kidding. Sorry, i have no info about the stuff.

mar10s · « **Reply #21 on:** February 15, 2009, 08:44:31 AM »

Instead of Novadex or 6-Oxo, try looking into Sustain Alpha by Primordial Performance.

pink · « **Reply #22 on:** February 15, 2009, 09:07:21 AM »

I hear the most consistent positive reviews for 6-oxo around the gyms.
Heard good things lately about Novadex too though.

6-Oxo has been out of stock everywhere for quite awhile now - anyone know what's up with that?
Should give a good opportunity for lifters to test what else is out there.

The ChemistV2 · « **Reply #23 on:** February 15, 2009, 10:38:44 AM »

Quote from: mar10s on February 15, 2009, 08:44:31 AM

Instead of Novadex or 6-Oxo, try looking into Sustain Alpha by Primordial Performance.

i've been reading some good reviews on this as far as a natural test booster and PCT substance. Have you personally tried it? It looks as though the product is backordered till the end of february. 6-0x0 is pretty good, but I don't think I want to continually keep using a synthetic hormonal based anti-aromatase substance. I may give this sustain alpha a try.

mar10s · « **Reply #24 on:** February 15, 2009, 02:48:44 PM »

Hey Chemist, ya I tried it before. It smells a bit, but I felt great off of it...just overall well-being and maintained my strength gains. I'm surprised this brand isn't talked about more on this board. Do you know the reason? I know they don't advertise in magazines and such. Give it a try and let me know what you think of it.