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Author Topic: JonBent and Burke Ramsey  (Read 17415 times)
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« Reply #25 on: September 19, 2016, 05:20:20 PM »

I was like . . . who the heck is Phil McGraw?  lol  Had to Google it.  I only know him as Dr. Phil.  Pretty impressive marketing. 

I'd like to know how he determined with such certainty that Burke isn't autistic.  Because, as terrible as it is, that's probably the one thing that would make the interview seem not-so-bad -- or at least make it understandable.

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« Reply #26 on: September 19, 2016, 05:24:42 PM »

I'd like to know how he determined with such certainty that Burke isn't autistic.  Because, as terrible as it is, that's probably the one thing that would make the interview seem not-so-bad -- or at least make it understandable.



He's just a recluse and socially awkward.  Has spent much of his life away from the public.  Works from home. 
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« Reply #27 on: September 19, 2016, 05:47:51 PM »

He's just a recluse and socially awkward.  Has spent much of his life away from the public.  Works from home. 

Yeah, I was reading that.  It's said he "works remotely" and he's "socially awkward".

I'd like to know exactly what he thought he'd accomplish by doing the interview, then.
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« Reply #28 on: September 19, 2016, 05:52:18 PM »

Yeah, I was reading that.  It's said he "works remotely" and he's "socially awkward".

I'd like to know exactly what he thought he'd accomplish by doing the interview, then.

Who knows?  He shoulda just kept his mouth shut.  Somebody in that house murdered that kid. 
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« Reply #29 on: September 19, 2016, 06:02:26 PM »

Who knows?  He shoulda just kept his mouth shut.  Somebody in that house murdered that kid. 

I'll try to find out how the interview came about, because something important can be found in that info imo if it's at all available in true form.

Problem is, all the claims as far as that goes, come from Dr. Phil.  So who knows what's true.  He has his reasons for saying the stuff he does (like "No Burke isn't autistic" and we take his word without anything further).
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« Reply #30 on: September 20, 2016, 10:53:24 AM »

CBS investigative panel pins JonBenet Ramsey's death on her brother



A team of investigators, who assembled for the two-part CBS docu-series "The Case Of: JonBenét Ramsey," believes the beauty queen's brother is responsible for her death in December 1996.

With retired FBI profiler Jim Clemente and criminal behavioral analyst Laura Richards at the helm, the team re-examined evidence from the nearly two-decade-old case that seemed to indicate JonBenét was killed by someone in her immediate family.

The team dissected a lengthy three-page ransom note that they said contained an extremely extraneous amount of words, not common of ransom notes since speed and brevity are usually key. It was also written on stationery and with a pen found in the home.​



Using sound reduction, Clemente and Richards believed they could identify three voices from the 911 call Patsy made after she thought she'd hung up the phone. The investigators thought they heard John, Patsy and Burke Ramsey, who was 9 at the time and said to be asleep.

"We're not speaking to you," the team believed John said with Patsy possibly saying, "What did you do?" The pair also thought they heard Burke say, "What did you find?"

For the investigation, a life-size replica of the Ramsey house was built. Using the model, they explored the intruder theory which they ultimately felt did not hold up.

They also concluded that the foreign DNA found on JonBenét's clothing, which led people to believe the Ramseys were innocent, could've been transferred in the manufacturing process.

Clemente and Richards also talked to a former member of the Boulder Police Department, Gretchen Smith, who believes that Boulder's former District Attorney, Alex Hunter, didn't want to prosecute the Ramseys because of their clout.

"The parents of the child, they have money," Smith said. "The District Attorney's office and some of administration did not want to hear that an affluent member of the community was guilty of a crime like this ... I don't think they wanted to solve this crime, and if they had to go down a different path that might not have been the truth, I think they were willing to do that."

Clemente and Richards also chatted with Steve Thomas, a former Boulder Police co-lead investigator, who stated in his resignation letter that, "Attempts to gather evidence were met with refusals and instead it was suggested that we ask for permission from the Ramseys before proceeding."

Thomas believes Patsy wrote the ransom note, and said Hunter was extremely uncooperative. Despite a grand jury voting to indict John and Patsy, Hunter said he did not have enough evidence to prosecute the Ramseys. Hunter also did not comply to be interviewed for the docu-series, because he said it would be too difficult to do without getting into grand jury information which he cannot discuss.

So who in the home could've committed the crime? John was the one who found his daughter's body and then moved it upstairs, compromising the crime scene and the forensic evidence. But was he a key component of his daughter's death or the cover-up?



In a videotaped interview administered by a child interview specialist, Burke was playful and lighthearted though the time stamp indicates it is Jan. 8, approximately two weeks after his sister was killed. He had no concern about his security and told the specialist, "I'm basically just going on with my life."

But does that mean he's a murderer? A family photographer said that Burke had a temper and once hit JonBenét in the face with a golf club. Burke admitted in a subsequent interview that even though he heard his mom going "psycho" he didn't feel the need to get out bed to see what was wrong. Also, the team believed a piece of a toy train track, like the ones found in Burke's room, could've caused an injury on JonBenét's back.

The investigators surmise that JonBenét made her brother mad — perhaps by stealing a piece of pineapple he was snacking on. (A bowl on the kitchen table and the contents of JonBenet's stomach helped lead to that theory.) Then, in retaliation, Burke hit her on the head with a flashlight. Some members of the team did not think he had an intent to kill, but believed John and Patsy had an intent to mislead and cover up.

"I think in the end this was about two parents (who) deeply cared for the daughter they lost," Clemente said, "and wanted to protect the child they had remaining."

On a recent episode of Dr. Phil, Burke said he stayed in his room because he likes to avoid conflict and is "not the worried type." He also said the handwriting on the ransom note was "too sloppy" to be his mother's, who pushed him to take pride in his penmanship.

Burke tells Dr. Phil that it was "probably some pedophile" from a beauty pageant who killed his sister, reports People. (He was seen as "socially awkward" in the first part of the interview.)

However, renowned forensic pathologist Dr. Werner Spitz, a member of the CBS panel on the show, said, “If you really, really use your free time to think about this case, you cannot come to a different conclusion.

“It's the boy who did it."

(Detroit Free Press)
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« Reply #31 on: September 20, 2016, 01:34:36 PM »

Quote
I'll try to find out how the interview came about, because something important can be found in that info imo if it's at all available in true form.

Problem is, all the claims as far as that goes, come from Dr. Phil.  So who knows what's true.  He has his reasons for saying the stuff he does (like "No Burke isn't autistic" and we take his word without anything further).

Lin Wood has worked for both the Ramseys and the McGraws.

Quote
attorney for Dr. Phil McGraw in connection with false and defamatory articles published by Newsweek, the Daily Beast and the National Enquirer

Quote
lead attorney for John and the late Patsy Ramsey and their son in matters relating to the 1996 murder of JonBenet Ramsey in Boulder, Colorado

IMO, that's how the interview came into existence.
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« Reply #32 on: September 21, 2016, 07:25:22 AM »

And on it goes.  Lin Wood to Reuters:

Quote
I will be filing a lawsuit on behalf of Burke Ramsey. ‘CBS’ false and unprofessional attacks on this young man are disgusting and revolting.
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« Reply #33 on: September 21, 2016, 07:49:33 AM »

Pretty clear, now, are the reasons for everything happening at this time.  The creation of the CBS show is what sparked it.

Dr. Phil lost all credibility on this one imo (if he had any left).
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« Reply #34 on: September 21, 2016, 08:29:40 AM »

From news.com.au:

Quote
There will be more drama to come, with further documentaries scheduled to run in the lead up to Christmas, including telemovie Who Killed JonBenet? airing in the US in November.
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« Reply #35 on: September 21, 2016, 09:35:23 AM »

Caught the last hour.  Pretty good.  Burke as the killer makes sense. 
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« Reply #36 on: September 21, 2016, 09:59:35 AM »

Caught the last hour.  Pretty good.  Burke as the killer makes sense. 

Dr. Phil or the CBS show?
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« Reply #37 on: September 21, 2016, 10:02:29 AM »

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=616965.0
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« Reply #38 on: September 21, 2016, 10:03:05 AM »

Dr. Phil or the CBS show?

The CBS show.
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« Reply #39 on: September 21, 2016, 10:12:20 AM »

The CBS show.

Yeah, I'll have to check that out.
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« Reply #40 on: September 21, 2016, 02:56:10 PM »

TV shows explore shocking new theories on JonBenet Ramsey case
By  Carole Glines 
Published September 21, 2016
FoxNews.com

America will never forget how 6-year-old beauty pageant queen JonBenet Ramsey was found dead in the basement of her Boulder, Colo., home on Dec. 26, 1996. While the blonde girl's mother Patsy first reported her kidnapped, JonBenet's wealthy father John Ramsey later discovered her body and police determined she'd suffered a blow to the head and had also been strangled with a garrote.

This fall, to mark the unsolved murder's twentieth anniversary, a slew of TV shows have presented their own investigations into the crime, including: "The Killing of JonBenet: The Truth Uncovered" on A&E, "Who Killed JonBenet?" from NBC's "Dateline," "JonBenet: An American Murder Mystery," from Investigation Discovery, and CBS' "The Case Of: JonBenet Ramsey." Dr. Phil McGraw also interviewed JonBenet's father and brother for a three-part series.

Here, FOX411 takes a look at some of the TV specials' new theories and revelations:

What did the 911 operator hear? Dispatcher Kimberly Archuleta, who received mother Patsy's frantic 911 call claiming JonBenet was kidnapped, gave her first TV interview to "Dateline." Archuleta remembered that the call was so peculiar that "there was something inside me that said, 'Something’s not right.'" After Patsy thought she had hung up the call, Archuleta could hear what she thought were three voices discussing the situation. Although the Ramseys told police son Burke was asleep in bed throughout their JonBenet ordeal, audio experts believe the third voice on the tape could be the boy.

The brother did it? On the just-aired CBS special, a panel of forensics experts came to the stunning conclusion that JonBenet's brother, Burke Ramsey, killed the little beauty pageant queen. Although Burke was just 9 at the time, investigator James Kolar theorized when JonBenet snagged a piece of pineapple from Burke's nighttime snack, "out of anger, he may have struck her with…[a] flashlight." The team said that Burke had previously hit his sister with a golf club. Also, retired FBI profiler Jim Clemente said Burke acted like an untruthful "smart Alec" during childhood interviews with a detective and psychologist. The boy raised eyebrows by making hammering motions when asked about JonBenet's death, and remarking dispassionately after losing his sister, "I'm just basically just going on with my life." Clemente's opinion is that Burke killed JonBenet and their parents staged the crime scene "to protect the child they had remaining." However, Burke, now 29, told Dr. Phil he didn't kill JonBenet — while creeping out viewers by smiling throughout the interview.

An intruder did it? A&E's documentary implied that an intruder was able to climb in through the Ramsey's open basement window, write a ransom note, and kill JonBenet. Boulder Detective Lou Smit (now deceased) famously illustrated this theory by climbing through the window himself on video. But CBS experts, doing their own test in a recreated version of the Ramsey house, concluded that climbing through the window would have disturbed cobwebs that were clearly seen on the original crime scene video. However, Bob Whitson, a retired Boulder detective, told "Dateline" that a "sexually sadistic person and psychopath" most likely killed Jon Benet.

DNA evidence exonerates parents? Patsy Ramsey (who died in 2006) and husband John always maintained they had nothing to do with JonBenet's death. According to the A&E show, DNA evidence from 2008 proved that the Ramseys couldn't have killed their daughter—a revelation that also caused Boulder authorities to publicly clear them and apologize. Results from a spot of blood found on JonBenét's underwear the night of the murder belonged to an unidentified male, show experts claimed. But famed forensics scientist Dr. Henry Lee came to a different conclusion on CBS' "The Case," saying a female garment worker likely left her DNA there after handling the panties in the manufacturing process. He also found no evidence of sexual assault. Although John Mark Karr confessed to killing JonBenet, he wasn't charged because his DNA didn't match.

Was the D.A. deceptive? It was revealed in 2013 that a Colorado grand jury had actually voted to indict JonBenet's parents in 1999; Boulder District Attorney Alex Hunter decided not to charge them. But "The Case" noted that Hunter had chosen his words carefully in a press conference to imply the grand jury had decided differently. Former Boulder police officer Gretchen Smith told CBS she felt that Hunter's office didn't want to solve the case because they "did not want to hear that an affluent member of the community was guilty of a crime like this." Off camera, Hunter told Jim Clemente he couldn't legally ever comment on grand jury proceedings.

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2016/09/21/tv-shows-explore-shocking-new-theories-on-jonbenet-ramsey-case.html
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« Reply #41 on: September 21, 2016, 04:25:09 PM »

The Grand Jury said this about each parent:

“did unlawfully, knowingly, recklessly and feloniously permit a child to be unreasonably placed in a situation which posed a threat of injury to the child’s life or health, which resulted in the death of JonBenét Ramsey, a child under the age of sixteen.”

"did unlawfully, knowingly and feloniously render assistance to a person, with intent to hinder, delay and prevent the discovery, detention, apprehension, prosecution, conviction and punishment of such person for the commission of a crime, knowing the person being assisted has committed and was suspected of the crime of murder in the first degree and child abuse resulting in death.”

Doesn't this sort of show that they figure Burke is the killer?  They say "knowing the person has committed" murder, yet no one gets indicted for murder -- which fits in with the fact Burke was 9-yo at the time and in Colorado.
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« Reply #42 on: September 21, 2016, 04:54:19 PM »

The Grand Jury said this about each parent:

“did unlawfully, knowingly, recklessly and feloniously permit a child to be unreasonably placed in a situation which posed a threat of injury to the child’s life or health, which resulted in the death of JonBenét Ramsey, a child under the age of sixteen.”

"did unlawfully, knowingly and feloniously render assistance to a person, with intent to hinder, delay and prevent the discovery, detention, apprehension, prosecution, conviction and punishment of such person for the commission of a crime, knowing the person being assisted has committed and was suspected of the crime of murder in the first degree and child abuse resulting in death.”

Doesn't this sort of show that they figure Burke is the killer?  They say "knowing the person has committed" murder, yet no one gets indicted for murder -- which fits in with the fact Burke was 9-yo at the time and in Colorado.

Yep.  That makes the most sense.  He was too young to be prosecuted.   

I probably posted about this earlier in the thread, but Foreign Faction is a great book that provides the most comprehensive, accurate analysis of what happened.  The author was on the CBS panel. 
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« Reply #43 on: September 21, 2016, 05:00:07 PM »

Yep.  That makes the most sense.  He was too young to be prosecuted.   

I probably posted about this earlier in the thread, but Foreign Faction is a great book that provides the most comprehensive, accurate analysis of what happened.  The author was on the CBS panel. 

If that's the case, then as a whole, it looks to show an ongoing issue existed with the boy.

Which means the CBS crew really soft-pedaled the matter, I'd say.
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« Reply #44 on: September 21, 2016, 05:01:26 PM »

Yeah, but that's really interesting.  I haven't seen any take to say that it's what the GJ meant, but I don't know how else it could be read.
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« Reply #45 on: September 21, 2016, 05:09:19 PM »

If that's the case, then as a whole, it looks to show an ongoing issue existed with the boy.

Which means the CBS crew really soft-pedaled the matter, I'd say.

Nothing soft about that CBS show, which is why the Ramsey lawyer is threatening to sue them.  They all expressly opined that Burke killed her. 

He previously smacked her in the face with a golf club.  He was also talking about her death like he would be talking about what he ate for lunch.  Gave an unsolicited demonstration of how someone could have stabbed her or hit in the hit.  Pretty creepy.   

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« Reply #46 on: September 21, 2016, 05:16:40 PM »

Nothing soft about that CBS show, which is why the Ramsey lawyer is threatening to sue them.  They all expressly opined that Burke killed her.  

He previously smacked her in the face with a golf club.  He was also talking about her death like he would be talking about what he ate for lunch.  Gave an unsolicited demonstration of how someone could have stabbed her or hit in the hit.  Pretty creepy.    



The golf-club incident was said to have been the result of an accident, during an otherwise harmless practice swing by Burke.  But was there anything else that might be added to show a pattern of some sort, pre-death, that you know of?
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« Reply #47 on: September 21, 2016, 05:19:41 PM »

^ btw, the golf-club claim as being accidental comes from the Ramsey parents, of course.
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« Reply #48 on: September 21, 2016, 05:33:46 PM »

The golf-club incident was said to have been the result of an accident, during an otherwise harmless practice swing by Burke.  But was there anything else that might be added to show a pattern of some sort, pre-death, that you know of?

The parents obviously said it was an accident.  A family friend said it was not.
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« Reply #49 on: September 21, 2016, 05:37:01 PM »

Gives a rough idea of the size difference between the two kids.

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