Does stacking amino acids cancel themselves out?

[Ron]

Question for a reader... any answers

I enjoy your site and have found it extremely useful on my quest. I have a question concerning l-arginine. I take a free form supplement that combines arginine, glutamine, glycine, ornithine and lysine along with something known as OKG. I've read that stacking these together causes each protein to cancel out the effects of the other. I've also read it's better to take creatine since it all ends up as creatine once it is processed in the body. What the heck is the truth? It seems to work for me just fine. Thanks for any information.

[benz]

where did he "read" that?

[Rimbaud]

This doesn't help but I read somewhere that L-Arginine (i.e. NO products) & Glutamine supplements shouldn't be taken together. I'll see if I can find it because I can't remember why.

[tbombz]

Question for a reader... any answers

I enjoy your site and have found it extremely useful on my quest. I have a question concerning l-arginine. I take a free form supplement that combines arginine, glutamine, glycine, ornithine and lysine along with something known as OKG. I've read that stacking these together causes each protein to cancel out the effects of the other. I've also read it's better to take creatine since it all ends up as creatine once it is processed in the body. What the heck is the truth? It seems to work for me just fine. Thanks for any information.

takjing those together is fine. some of them are useless and dont do anything, but there are no ill effects and no "canceling out", at leats not to my knowledge.   

those ingredients do not just convert into creatine.       


taking creatine in conjunction would be a good idea.

[Christopher Belinksky]

no, it does not.
amino acids never cancel each other, they work together as a unit, if that was true, then no protein would exist, because
it is all made up of amino acids.
you can read the back of your typical whey protein supplement and it will show that it contains all those amino acids.

[Christopher Belinksky]

takjing those together is fine. some of them are useless and dont do anything, but there are no ill effects and no "canceling out", at leats not to my knowledge.   

those ingredients do not just convert into creatine.       


taking creatine in conjunction would be a good idea.

yes, creatine and amino acids are two different things, and tell this person to take their creating (if monohydrate) with a sweet drink, some simple
carbs to help the absorption.

[DK II]

no, it does not.
amino acids never cancel each other, they work together as a unit, if that was true, then no protein would exist, because
it is all made up of amino acids.
you can read the back of your typical whey protein supplement and it will show that it contains all those amino acids.

Spot on, good answer.

Nature is smarter than we all are, and if the amino acids from food (not all!) would cancel each other out, it'd be a hell of a mess.

[Christopher Belinksky]

Spot on, good answer.

Nature is smarter than we all are, and if the amino acids from food (not all!) would cancel each other out, it'd be a hell of a mess.

haha, if they cancelled each other out, we would all be dead 
people make things way too complicated than it has to be.
keep it simple and you wont hurt your brain thinking too much guys.

[DK II]

haha, if they cancelled each other out, we would all be dead 
people make things way too complicated than it has to be.
keep it simple and you wont hurt your brain thinking too much guys.

I agree, if you have a good diet with good foods, IMO it doesn't even matter to weight all the food and count calories, just listen to your body.

As for the thinking....
Not the field of best performance for too many in the weight lifting business....

 

[Christopher Belinksky]

I agree, if you have a good diet with good foods, IMO it doesn't even matter to weight all the food and count calories, just listen to your body.

As for the thinking....
Not the field of best performance for too many in the weight lifting business....

 

 

[24KT]

Question for a reader... any answers

I enjoy your site and have found it extremely useful on my quest. I have a question concerning l-arginine. I take a free form supplement that combines arginine, glutamine, glycine, ornithine and lysine along with something known as OKG. I've read that stacking these together causes each protein to cancel out the effects of the other. I've also read it's better to take creatine since it all ends up as creatine once it is processed in the body. What the heck is the truth? It seems to work for me just fine. Thanks for any information.

Yes.... and No. (Don't you just love not so simple answers?)    I'll try to keep as non-technical as possible.

This greatly depends on the amino acids he is taking, and his purpose for taking them.

In the case of l-arginine, in order to get it to pass the blood brain barrier, it must not be consumed with any of it's brother and sister amino acids, ...or it will simply mimic them. L-arginine is what has been refered to as a "blind amino acid" in that it doesn't know where to go in the body unless specifically directed, ...either by a rider (a carrier) or by it's brother & sister amino acids. Therefore, when used for certain purposes, l-arginine should not be consumed with any other proteins, amino acids, or foods etc. only on an empty stomache with water, and depending on the purpose within 15 mins of falling asleep.  If consumed simply as a means of supplementing a healthy diet, ...then taking it with other amino acids isn't an issue because in this instance, you're not looking for it to cross over the blood brain barrier.

Bare in mind, Arginine is a double edged sword in that it can be highly beneficial, ...supporting a host of functions,
however, it is also a highly reactive molecule that can cause severe free radical damage.

Picture a blind man getting behind the wheel of a car. He may make it to Yankee Stadium, ...but after all is said and done, ...and all the damage tallied up en route, ...was it worth it? Now, ...if there was a GPS navigational system, along with an individual with 20/20 vision right beside him, telling him when to accelerate, when to slow down, where and when to turn, and when to apply the brake, ...the trip isn't as dangerous.

Well, ...L-arginine is that blind man behind the wheel of the car.

A low glycemic carrier that will bond to the l-arginine is that GPS navigation and 20/20 sighted co-pilot rolled into one.

The brother & sister amino acids, also act like GPS navigation systems and co-pilots as well....
...however, the low glycemic rider wants to go to Yankee Stadium, and the amino acids want to go to Times Square.

Hope That Clarifies 

[Christopher Belinksky]

Yes.... and No. (Don't you just love not so simple answers?)    I'll try to keep as non-technical as possible.

This greatly depends on the amino acids he is taking, and his purpose for taking them.

In the case of l-arginine, in order to get it to pass the blood brain barrier, it must not be consumed with any of it's brother and sister amino acids, ...or it will simply mimic them. L-arginine is what has been refered to as a "blind amino acid" in that it doesn't know where to go in the body unless specifically directed, ...either by a rider (a carrier) or by it's brother & sister amino acids. Therefore, when used for certain purposes, l-arginine should not be consumed with any other proteins, amino acids, or foods etc. only on an empty stomache with water, and depending on the purpose within 15 mins of falling asleep.  If consumed simply as a means of supplementing a healthy diet, ...then taking it with other amino acids isn't an issue because in this instance, you're not looking for it to cross over the blood brain barrier.

Bare in mind, Arginine is a double edged sword in that it can be highly beneficial, ...supporting a host of functions,
however, it is also a highly reactive molecule that can cause severe free radical damage.

Picture a blind man getting behind the wheel of a car. He may make it to Yankee Stadium, ...but after all is said and done, ...and all the damage tallied up en route, ...was it worth it? Now, ...if there was a GPS navigational system, along with an individual with 20/20 vision right beside him, telling him when to accelerate, when to slow down, where and when to turn, and when to apply the brake, ...the trip isn't as dangerous.

Well, ...L-arginine is that blind man behind the wheel of the car.

A low glycemic carrier that will bond to the l-arginine is that GPS navigation and 20/20 sighted co-pilot rolled into one.

The brother & sister amino acids, also act like GPS navigation systems and co-pilots as well....
...however, the low glycemic rider wants to go to Yankee Stadium, and the amino acids want to go to Times Square.

Hope That Clarifies 

....so you're basically saying if I take NO-Xplode I will go blind and make it to a yankees game

[24KT]

....so you're basically saying if I take NO-Xplode I will go blind and make it to a yankees game

Oh Christopher, ...don't blame it on the NO-Xplode, when you know you've been doing overtime with Mr. Happy 

I doubt you'd make it to Yankee Stadium, ...but I hear Times Square can be rather exciting. 

[Christopher Belinksky]

Oh Christopher, ...don't blame it on the NO-Xplode, when you know you've been doing overtime with Mr. Happy 

I doubt you'd make it to Yankee Stadium, ...but I hear Times Square can be rather exciting. 

well, NO-Xplode helps keep Mr. Happy alert aswell 

[MuscleMcMannus]

Haha typical.......people worrying about whether L-argnine will cross the blood brain barrier and other trivial shit.  You think any of that shit really matters?  When will people learn that 99% of the supplements out there are worthless shit.  If you eat how you're supposed to eat.......i.e. lots of fruits and vegetables, lots of whole foods i.e. eggs, red meat, milk, oatmeal, grains, healthy carbs.  You don't need anything else.  Add to this getting most of your food organically grown and you're doing better than 3/4 of the population that tries to supplement the shit out of their diet.  They mystery of WHOLE FOOD is and probably will be for a  long time just that.......A MYSTERY!  Mother Nature has proven time and time again she knows better.  Humans always try to cross her and she bitch slaps you back into reality.

As far as bodybuilders go do you really think John Grimek, Bill Pearl, Jack Lalanne, Steve Reeves, Arnold, Kevin Levrone, Ronnie Coleman really sit there and analyze the shit out of whether or not L-arginine crosses the blood brain barrier and nonsense like that?  Amino acids in pill form and powder have been around for decades.  Every year the supplement industry tries to reinvent the wheel and every year people buy into the bullshit.  steorids plus hardwork plus eating right is what works for 99.9% of people. If you want to market a supplement try to put "hardwork" and "discipline" into pill form cause when it comes down to it that's what matters most and that's what most people lack. 

[Princess L]

This doesn't help but I read somewhere that L-Arginine (i.e. NO products) & Glutamine supplements shouldn't be taken together. I'll see if I can find it because I can't remember why.

I can't recall why either, but I do recall that it's basically a waste to take free form amino acids (BCAA's) with protein (ex: whey shake), not so much as they cancel each other out, but as Jag said, "it must not be consumed with any of it's brother and sister amino acids, ...or it will simply mimic them".  So, in other words, take your aminos separately, preferably on an empty stomach, away from other protein sources.  Additionally, from what I've read, there's not a lot of evidence, if any, supporting amino supplementation if protein intake is adequate (ie: .08/kg BW).  There is however some evidence that it may be helpful when caloric intake (obviously including protein intake) is reduced, such as with a cutting diet.

[Option D]

no, it does not.
amino acids never cancel each other, they work together as a unit, if that was true, then no protein would exist, because
it is all made up of amino acids.
you can read the back of your typical whey protein supplement and it will show that it contains all those amino acids.

Lysine and Arginine maybe?

[tbombz]

I can't recall why either, but I do recall that it's basically a waste to take free form amino acids (BCAA's) with protein (ex: whey shake), not so much as they cancel each other out, but as Jag said, "it must not be consumed with any of it's brother and sister amino acids, ...or it will simply mimic them".  So, in other words, take your aminos separately, preferably on an empty stomach, away from other protein sources.  Additionally, from what I've read, there's not a lot of evidence, if any, supporting amino supplementation if protein intake is adequate (ie: .08/kg BW).  There is however some evidence that it may be helpful when caloric intake (obviously including protein intake) is reduced, such as with a cutting diet.

by adding in key amino acids that spur protein synthesis,  person could eat less total protien and achieve the same effects.

[24KT]

Haha typical.......people worrying about whether L-argnine will cross the blood brain barrier and other trivial shit.  You think any of that shit really matters?  When will people learn that 99% of the supplements out there are worthless shit.  If you eat how you're supposed to eat.......i.e. lots of fruits and vegetables, lots of whole foods i.e. eggs, red meat, milk, oatmeal, grains, healthy carbs.  You don't need anything else.  Add to this getting most of your food organically grown and you're doing better than 3/4 of the population that tries to supplement the shit out of their diet.  They mystery of WHOLE FOOD is and probably will be for a  long time just that.......A MYSTERY!  Mother Nature has proven time and time again she knows better.  Humans always try to cross her and she bitch slaps you back into reality.

As far as bodybuilders go do you really think John Grimek, Bill Pearl, Jack Lalanne, Steve Reeves, Arnold, Kevin Levrone, Ronnie Coleman really sit there and analyze the shit out of whether or not L-arginine crosses the blood brain barrier and nonsense like that?  Amino acids in pill form and powder have been around for decades.  Every year the supplement industry tries to reinvent the wheel and every year people buy into the bullshit.  steorids plus hardwork plus eating right is what works for 99.9% of people. If you want to market a supplement try to put "hardwork" and "discipline" into pill form cause when it comes down to it that's what matters most and that's what most people lack. 

Again, like I said, ...it depends on the purpose for taking the l-arginine in the first place.
It has been shown to be extremely beneficial for a host of purposes ...provided one uses it properly.

I don't know about Ronnie Coleman, ...but I believe there are purposes that Jack Lalanne could be very interested in, and could infact be more concerned than others about whether it is infact crossing over the blood brain barrier accompanied by a suitable rider.

Mother Nature does know best, ...but like you said, her pimp hand is very strong, and she's not afraid to bitch slap.

We don't cross the street before looking both ways, and we certainly wouldn't walk into the street if we knew the driver behind the wheel of that big semi coming up was actually blind and had no hands. We're aware of the hazards of suddden acute injuries, and do our best to prevent them. Doesn't it make sense to do what we can to optimize our health? If we're willing to look both ways in order to avoid blind drivers running amok in the streets. Does it make sense to allow a blind driver without the ability to steer to run amok in our body? Arginine is a highly reactive molecule, and tremendous free radical damage has a cumulative effect that leads to chronic states of DIS-ease.

[MuscleMcMannus]

My point is people try to "maximize" their health with stupid supplements when they don't even put in the effort to eat right.  Do you get 5 servings of fruits and vegetables a day?  Probably not.  Most people don't. 

Jack Lalanne was a raw foodist early in his life.  He used to eat raw meat all the time.  Raw milk etc.  This was a big reason for his health and longevity.........i.e. food not supplements. 

[24KT]

My point is people try to "maximize" their health with stupid supplements when they don't even put in the effort to eat right.

I am in total agreement with you there. Supplements are called supplements for a reason.
They are meant as supplementary to, ...not as substitutions for.

  Do you get 5 servings of fruits and vegetables a day?  Probably not.  Most people don't. 

Actually I do, ...but IMO 5 is meeting the minimum requirement, hardly adequate to support optimal health,
...and especially not with todays foods grown in mineral and nutrient depleted soils.

Jack Lalanne was a raw foodist early in his life.  He used to eat raw meat all the time.  Raw milk etc.  This was a big reason for his health and longevity.........i.e. food not supplements. 

Phyonutrients, antioxidants, polysaccharides, and anthocyanins are pretty powerful things.

I prefer my fruits and vegetables raw. At best ever so slightly steamed, ...just enough to tenderize them, but...
         I absolutely, emphatically, categorically draw the line at eating raw meat. 
I can barely even stomache the sight of seeing cooked meat. It's terrible. I'll be having dinner with someone in a restaurant and sometimes the sight of what's on their plate leaves me almost catatonic. no joke. I once saw the biggest slab of raw liver I'd ever seen in my life and ...oh man... let's just say it shook me up.