Senate refuses to bar illegal aliens from getting $$$ under Stimulus Bill

[Option D]

If people want to be here legally and work, then perhaps they would put into the system as much as they drain out.

Theres no excuse to support illegals coming in and lowering our wage base so that poverty continues to exist.

We need to lock all the borders and put our energy into our own country for awhile.......but no....Globalization will not let that happen.

I totally agree. We need a stimulus (spending) to go towards tight ass boarders. That would balance out the drain they put on our country economically. But i am scared of this. Im from California (7th largest economy in the world.) Boom.. The biggest part of that economy is Agriculture, not computers, not movies...Agri..A huge % of the labor force in Californias Agri  are illegals that drive down the wages which inturn drives down overhead for producer which then keeps the price of lettuce cheap. If it went all legal and Juan Martinez was replaced by John Smith, the overhead would go up for Del Monte on acct of the price of labor...Del Monte isnt going to eat that, They are going to pass price on to the shcmuck who wants to make a fruit salad for the family bbq.

[Soul Crusher]

I totally agree. We need a stimulus (spending) to go towards tight ass boarders. That would balance out the drain they put on our country economically. But i am scared of this. Im from California (7th largest economy in the world.) Boom.. The biggest part of that economy is Agriculture, not computers, not movies...Agri..A huge % of the labor force in Californias Agri  are illegals that drive down the wages which inturn drives down overhead for producer which then keeps the price of lettuce cheap. If it went all legal and Juan Martinez was replaced by John Smith, the overhead would go up for Del Monte on acct of the price of labor...Del Monte isnt going to eat that, They are going to pass price on to the shcmuck who wants to make a fruit salad for the family bbq.

I would rather pay more for lettuce than for taxes to support these people. 

We have many people who need jobs who could do this.  I would rather pay more knowing that legal citizens are doing the work than illegal aliens who send the money home.

[drkaje]

Like the little blond haired, blue eyed 5 yr old California boy who was on the NO FLY list as a suspected terrorist. 

{giggle} What am I thinking? The government would never screw up or make mistakes ...EVER. 

You noticed I didn't mention anything at all about screwing up the list of eligible voters. 

What makes you think a blond haired, blue eyed person wouldn't be a terrorist? Islam is the fasted growing religion in the world.

Blacks and (I specifically mean African Americans) are the only people I would trust to not be suicide bombers. Only because culturally suicide is pretty rare because blacks (American) pretty much believe suicide is a straight path to hell.

Illegals shouldn't get shit and the children of illegals shouldn't be automatically granted citizenship. This issue will not ever be fully addressed because Florida, New Jersey and maybe Pennsylvania have the biggest Cuban populations and they have been abusing the US political process for years. True immigration reform would cost too many votes so the people in Arizona are screwed until mexicans start yelling "Allah Akbar" while crossing the border.

I would rather pay more for lettuce than for taxes to support these people.
We have many people who need jobs who could do this.  I would rather pay more knowing that legal citizens are doing the work than illegal aliens who send the money home.

Amen!!

[War-Horse]

I totally agree. We need a stimulus (spending) to go towards tight ass boarders. That would balance out the drain they put on our country economically. But i am scared of this. Im from California (7th largest economy in the world.) Boom.. The biggest part of that economy is Agriculture, not computers, not movies...Agri..A huge % of the labor force in Californias Agri  are illegals that drive down the wages which inturn drives down overhead for producer which then keeps the price of lettuce cheap. If it went all legal and Juan Martinez was replaced by John Smith, the overhead would go up for Del Monte on acct of the price of labor...Del Monte isnt going to eat that, They are going to pass price on to the shcmuck who wants to make a fruit salad for the family bbq.

Very true.  This is the point where capitialism begins to fall apart like a pyramid scheme.    We could work for less if our costs of housing, food and other sources were kept inline.   Normally supply and demand would balance the field in a free market.  
But a few rich people come in and outbid you on a home in the neighborhood and all of a sudden everyone thinks their "Equity rich" and the middle class dissapear.

Greed always ruins the free market.




I realize this is off subject, but your point was well made and got me thinking.

[Option D]

I would rather pay more for lettuce than for taxes to support these people. 

We have many people who need jobs who could do this.  I would rather pay more knowing that legal citizens are doing the work than illegal aliens who send the money home.

Ah haa. You are correct. So the elimination of the Income tax would offset the increase of the cost of produce (as it pertians to the average joe)

But jobs would be going to americans.. I guess thats the only upside. Because the focal point is "illegals dont pay income taxes" so if we did away with income tax and put americans to work on the strawberry fields  it wouldt be any difference..oh well maybe we wont have that drain on resources...


man i dont know this shit is confusing.

[Soul Crusher]

Ah haa. You are correct. So the elimination of the Income tax would offset the increase of the cost of produce (as it pertians to the average joe)

But jobs would be going to americans.. I guess thats the only upside. Because the focal point is "illegals dont pay income taxes" so if we did away with income tax and put americans to work on the strawberry fields  it wouldt be any difference..oh well maybe we wont have that drain on resources...


man i dont know this shit is confusing.

No its, its that they cost us far more in excess of anything they put into the system. 

[IFBBwannaB]

That's the point I'm making. The people are already here, and do contribute to the economy.


That's not what I'm advocating. I'm sorry if I gave that impression.
 
You got that right. Too late to close the barn door. The horses have already gotten out.
Economies are too intertwined to disentangle them now without causing even far greater damage ... at this time.

Bullshit, your excuse is that they are too deep in to get them out, well fucking bulllllshit.
Maybe it will cause a rough year while the transient state stabilizes but it will be much better afterwards.

And regarding the system, I prefer that people who deserve it will have to hustle through some extra paper work than giving money to illegals. You're basically saying that a doctor shouldn't do surgery to a patient because that surgery isn't 110% safe...buuullllshit, that excuse doesn't hold.

[Option D]

No its, its that they cost us far more in excess of anything they put into the system. 

I get that. But the fact remains that if we replace illegal with legal, are we willing to risk the reprecussions (sp) affected on wallets.

Im not defending it now and im not defending what happend, but America was built on the back of exploited peoples. Producers were able clock hella profit due the the lack of overhead.
Look at slavery.
We were able to purchase land from french and fund military on the backs of slaves. if slaves were made workers, we fuck around and be still be in negotiations with europe over Louisiana Territory.

[Soul Crusher]

I get that. But the fact remains that if we replace illegal with legal, are we willing to risk the reprecussions (sp) affected on wallets.

Im not defending it now and im not defending what happend, but America was built on the back of exploited peoples. Producers were able clock hella profit due the the lack of overhead.
Look at slavery.
We were able to purchase land from french and fund military on the backs of slaves. if slaves were made workers, we fuck around and be still be in negotiations with europe over Louisiana Territory.

I know for one that I am ready to pay more knowing the legal homegrown people are doing these jobs as opposed to border jumpers.

[Option D]

I know for one that I am ready to pay more knowing the legal homegrown people are doing these jobs as opposed to border jumpers.

Ok. From a patriotic sense I totally for what you are saying. But from a dollars cents standpoint, what would it cost. We are talking about 1 labor force effecting an entire industry or 2...if we could do it and somehow put some money back in joe blows pocket in order to offset the price it would be easier...

i dont know man. im just throwing stuff out. I dont know about this political shit.

[w8tlftr]

Traitors.

[Option D]

Traitors.

joes?
yeah i shop there. what of it?

[Parker]

I seriously can't understand how these people can actually do such a thing.
Someone should make a list of who were the fuckers that voted against it and remind everyone what these people when it's time to vote them in again.

Nothing will happen until one of those Senators or someone high up on the Pwoer and Money foodchain either gets hit by a Illegal on a DUI or a family member gets hit.  Something has to happen to them before they feel it, and then "It's On"!

As a matter of fact, It seems like you get more privledges being a Illegal Immigrant than being a American Citizen. 

[24KT]

I know for one that I am ready to pay more knowing the legal homegrown people are doing these jobs as opposed to border jumpers.

Many people say this time and time again, ...however, in actual practice... the moment the price of something goes up, ...they're having a knipfit sending armies overseas waging war in order to get what they want as cheap as possible.

How many people said they'd be willing to pay more for gas, so long as they knew the money wasn't going to countries that want them gone... well guess what, people did pay more for their gas, ...and the wailing and the screaming could have been heard in China!

The fact is illegals have kept the state economies of Cali, Texas, Arizona and New Mexico afloat for years.

In a more just world, illegals wouldn't have to go to other countries and be exploited by large corporations. The only reason they are there is because extremely powerful interests want them there. In a perfect world, their countries would not be exploited by these same powerful interests. They would be able to stay in their country and earn a decent living for themselves and their families, not cross borders to be exploited.

Big_Mal understands the complexity of the dilemma. To skapegoat a people who have been such a valueable asset to you is not nice. It's insult on top of injury. bottom line is they ARE there, and their fortunes rest with the success or failure of the economy just like everyone else.

If I'm in a leaky boat that's taking on water, ...I'm calling for all hands on deck.
Grab those buckets and bail that water out as fast as you can,
...and I'm not about to nitpick about whether someone is a paid passenger or a stow-away.
I'm putting a bucket in his hand, and expecting him to bail water right along with the rest of us.
When the boat is safely ashore... then we will deal with his lack of a boarding pass.

[Option D]

Many people say this time and time again, ...however, in actual practice... the moment the price of something goes up, ...they're having a knipfit sending armies overseas waging war in order to get what they want as cheap as possible.

How many people said they'd be willing to pay more for gas, so long as they knew the money wasn't going to countries that want them gone... well guess what, people did pay more for their gas, ...and the wailing and the screaming could have been heard in China!

The fact is illegals have kept the state economies of Cali, Texas, Arizona and New Mexico afloat for years.

In a more just world, illegals wouldn't have to go to other countries and be exploited by large corporations. The only reason they are there is because extremely powerful interests want them there. In a perfect world, their countries would not be exploited by these same powerful interests. They would be able to stay in their country and earn a decent living for themselves and their families, not cross borders to be exploited.

Big_Mal understands the complexity of the dilemma. To skapegoat a people who have been such a valueable asset to you is not nice. It's insult on top of injury. bottom line is they ARE there, and their fortunes rest with the success or failure of the economy just like everyone else.

If I'm in a leaky boat that's taking on water, ...I'm calling for all hands on deck.
Grab those buckets and bail that water out as fast as you can,
...and I'm not about to nitpick about whether someone is a paid passenger or a stow-away.
I'm putting a bucket in his hand, and expecting him to bail water right along with the rest of us.
When the boat is safely ashore... then we will deal with his lack of a boarding pass.

FUCKING GREAT ANALOGY!!!!

[24KT]

FUCKING GREAT ANALOGY!!!!

Thank You!

How many times have you heard people say "I'd be willing to pay more if I knew the job was going to an American"?

Then they shop at Walmart, ...supporting Chinese manufactured goods and communism.  HELLO!
Then when you mention it to them, ...they counter with, ...but it's cheaper at Walmart.

We're all in this together folks... bottom line. Don't allow yourself to get caught up in the hatred sown by others who want to scapegoat people and distract you from the real issues. If they can preoccupy your mind with anger towards their designated scapegoat long enough, ...you'll lack the clarity to figure things out, ...and that's exactly where they want you. There was a lot of things that went down over the past 8 years that sailed right by alot of people simply because they were distracted by lies and anger directed towards scapegoats.

"Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism." --George Washington

“Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. It both emboldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind. And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch and the blood boils with hate and the mind has closed, the leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the citizenry, infused with fear and blinded by patriotism, will offer up all of their rights unto the leader and gladly so. How do I know?
For this is what I have done. And I am Caesar.” --Caesar

[drkaje]

Then send all the illegals to Canada.

[SAMSON123]

Then send all the illegals to Canada.

OK...that will be done as soon as the whites are sent back to Europe..... (Indians start celebrating)

[Cap]

OK...that will be done as soon as the whites are sent back to Europe..... (Indians start celebrating)

And blacks sent back to Africa?  Good logic.

Illegals have countries of origin.  If they want to stay legally there are avenues for that, if not then they should be deported immediately.

[drkaje]

OK...that will be done as soon as the whites are sent back to Europe..... (Indians start celebrating)

Judi seems to believe there's no downside to illegals, LOL!

Illegals should have no right other than going the fuck home.

[24KT]

Then send all the illegals to Canada.

{lol} Oh Doc, ...trust me, ...you don't want that.
After the brutal cold snap we had the last few weeks, ...they'd be back in Cali in a heart beat,
...only now they'd be bringing a busload of Canadians with them once words gets out about the weather.
Not only would you never get rid of them... you'll end up with a huge influx of people all rallying for universal healthcare, same-sex marriage rights, decriminalized marijuana laws, and multi-culturalism.

[24KT]

And blacks sent back to Africa?  Good logic.

He didn't make that analogy, and it's not a good one.
Blacks were brought here against their will, ...Europeans and illegals came willingly. big difference.

Go get yourself some carbs. 

[drkaje]

{lol} Oh Doc, ...trust me, ...you don't want that.
After the brutal cold snap we had the last few weeks, ...they'd be back in Cali in a heart beat,
...only now they'd be bringing a busload of Canadians with them once words gets out about the weather.
Not only would you never get rid of them... you'll end up with a huge influx of people all rallying for universal healthcare, same-sex marriage rights, decriminalized marijuana laws, and multi-culturalism.

You can put them all on welfare, LOL!

[Cap]

He didn't make that analogy, and it's not a good one.
Blacks were brought here against their will, ...Europeans and illegals came willingly. big difference.

Go get yourself some carbs. 

They never left, much like the Europeans who were working off their debt in the "New World".

Even if you go back to the 1800s you still can't compare the illegals of today to the people coming through Ellis Island.  There is a system in place for a reason and the sooner politicians start enforcing it the better this country, with states such as CA, will have a lot more money and a lot less problems.  There should be no problems.  You aren't legal, you don't stay. It really is that black and white.

[24KT]

Judi seems to believe there's no downside to illegals, LOL!

Illegals should have no right other than going the fuck home.

That's not what I believe. Like everything there are downsides as well as an upside

And as for your second comment, ...sounds a little familiar...
Oh ya, reminds of that fuckackta quote "A Black man has no rights that any white man is obligated to respect."

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=66136.msg3708061#msg3708061