Natural 200lb bodybuilder jumps from 250 to 400 grams protein daily

[Tamer Razor]

Why do people think protein is the be all and end all of bodybuilding? Why can't "bodybuilders" just eat a well balanced diet and perhaps eat just a little more protein than that of a normal person? I'll tell you why, because it's the childish mentality that more is better. I'm sure I've read up somewhere that excess levels of protein can lower testosterone, although you may want to check that out for yourself. I always look at it from this perspective for naturals; if scientists and nutritional experts recommend say between 60 and 70 grams of protein a day for an average male with normal activity levels, why would weight training require the body to acquire three, four, five, hell even six and seven times that amount?! I could understand doubling that number and in some cases tripling that, but 400 grams? Crazy.

To answer your question in a simplistic way. Protein is fundamental for muscle repair (internal organs included), nerve system and immune system support. Fats are essential for hormonal production, vitamin and mineral absorption and cell membrane formation. Carbs are the Primary source of energy of the body, but not Essential as the body is able to produce glucose. It is logical that if the objective is to increase muscle mass, you will significantly increase protein consuption as amino-acids are directly responsable for such process. The FDA determination for daily Protein intake is a minimun requirement for individuals to maintain their general heath, not individuals trying to significantly increase muscle mass. The FDA determination is extremely controversial now as you may find several new dietary pyramids propose by the Medical Community.

[webcake]

i'm stronger and haven't lost an ounce of size, even though I haven't lifted since last friday.  (I went to doc on monday for hurt shoulder, got a week of heat, rest, and advil)

unfortunately it's a little hard to drop a deuce today

 

[240 is Back]

she told me 600 mg per day, twice a day.

i've been doing 1 of the 200mg in the morning, and another at night, some nights.  so 400 mg maximum.

believe me, if i've learned anything from my 30k posts here, its that AAS doesn't kill people - ADVIL DOES!

[Jadethegladiator]

I'm gonna do a drastic diet thing and see what happens. Have to figure out what eating 300 g protein would look like.

Hey, I might do the drastic diet thing too just to prove a point.

My thoughts:
If you are trying to gain size, it's at least 2 grams of protein per lb of bodyweight.  Done, enough said & no other way around it.

To maintain, it's at 1-1.5 grams of protein per lb of bodyweight.

IMO, there is no such thing as too much protein.

[just_a_pilgrim]

Hey, I might do the drastic diet thing too just to prove a point.

My thoughts:
If you are trying to gain size, it's at least 2 grams of protein per lb of bodyweight.  Done, enough said & no other way around it.

To maintain, it's at 1-1.5 grams of protein per lb of bodyweight.

IMO, there is no such thing as too much protein.

So then why not eat 4 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight. Why not 10?

[Van_Bilderass]

Protein consumption will be maximazed in small doses during the day, providing constants supply of amino-acids. The consuption of 100g of Protein will certainty decrease its absorption, but so will ANY substance taking in excess. Small doses of 30g to 40g during the day are optimal.

Not necessarily. Larger boluses less frequently increase protein synthesis rates. Smaller, more frequent boluses increase PS less but it's elevated more constantly. So in the end it probably doesn't matter hugely whether you eat 3-4 or 6-7 meals for example.

It is plenty of data that link high amounts of Carbs to heart disease,diabetes, strokes etc...It is sad how ill informed you are regarding the basics of nutrition.

What do you mean by "high amounts of carbs"? I think it's more correct to say eating in excess in general, leading to obesity, is what leads to diabetes etc. Not "high" carbs per se. If high carb intake was harmful Milos' methods would be very detrimental to health right? and we should all go on a ketogenic diet. Overconsumption of protein causes insulin resistance as well. *

EVIL ANGEL, what is your recommendation as far as protein intake? How many grams per pound? And if you can could you explain how you arrived at the figure.


*

Curr Opin Clin Nutr Metab Care. 2006 Jul;9(4):463-8. Links
Effects of dietary protein on glucose homeostasis.
Promintzer M, Krebs M.

Division of Endocrinology and Metabolism, Department of Internal Medicine III, Medical University of Vienna, Vienna, Austria.

PURPOSE OF REVIEW: Despite the proven efficacy of the established high-carbohydrate diets for treatment and prevention of obesity and type 2 diabetes, alternative diets including high-protein, high-fat, low-carbohydrate diets have become increasingly popular. The purpose of this review is to discuss potential effects of increased protein intake on glucose metabolism and body weight. RECENT FINDINGS: Recent intervention trials revealed that, in the short-term, the intake of proteins at the expense of carbohydrates increases satiety and thereby lowers intake of calories. High protein intake augments prandial insulin secretion and might thereby improve glycaemic control in type 2 diabetic patients. On the other hand, epidemiological studies suggest that chronic high dietary protein intake is associated with increased incidence of type 2 diabetes. Furthermore, a short-term increase in plasma amino acid concentrations has been shown to directly induce insulin resistance in skeletal muscle and stimulate endogenous glucose production. SUMMARY: Dietary proteins and amino acids are potent modulators of glucose metabolism and might also affect satiety and energy intake. However, due to the lack of well-controlled long-term studies the optimal macronutrient composition for treatment and prevention of obesity and type 2 diabetes is not known.

[body88]

Hey, I might do the drastic diet thing too just to prove a point.

My thoughts:
If you are trying to gain size, it's at least 2 grams of protein per lb of bodyweight.  Done, enough said & no other way around it.

To maintain, it's at 1-1.5 grams of protein per lb of bodyweight.

IMO, there is no such thing as too much protein.

They also used to say that smoking menthol cigarettes was good for colds and coughs back in the 20's.  There is defiantly such a think as to much protein.  Extreme amounts of anything is harmful.  Do you take steriods?

[drkaje]

Here's the problem. Most of the anatomy and physiology books based upon a 70Kg male and don't account for bodybuilding as an activity. All you can do is look at what's worked for years and 2 grams/Kg seems to help people build muscle.

People probably should crack open a basic book instead of arguing back and forth over this on-line.

[PJim]

I think most people are scared to lower their protein. Most people would be suprised to learn how little protein they need to maintain AND gain at.

[Fatpanda]

I think most people are scared to lower their protein. Most people would be suprised to learn how little protein they need to maintain AND gain at.

no they wouldn't, low protein and low calories = muscle loss

[PJim]

no they wouldn't, low protein and low calories = muscle loss

Define low? Personally I can diet, maintain and gain and never go over a gram per pound of bodyweight.

[Fatpanda]

Define low? Personally I can diet, maintain and gain and never go over a gram per pound of bodyweight.

a gram per pound is the currently accepted recomendation - so in fact you are not on low protein at all - thats why you can diet, maintain and gain 

to me low is .5g per lbs

[QuakerOats]

no they wouldn't, low protein and low calories = muscle loss

exactly.

[Sam]

Assuming caloric intake remains constant, and that he reaches 400 grams protein by lowering carbs and fat accordingly, what gains would he see?  Any?

[PJim]

a gram per pound is the currently accepted recomendation - so in fact you are not on low protein at all - thats why you can diet, maintain and gain 

to me low is .5g per lbs

Oh okay dude. It's just that a lot of people in this thread are acting like a gram per pound is starvation!

[PJim]

Hahah I like how he's got his hands on his hips like nothing's happened!

[Mars]

[body88]

400-500 grams of protein, lol.  When I was being trained by a national level competitor for football when I was in college he told me the same shit (dudes in jail now....biggest waste of money ever). I noticed no difference with my physique when ingesting 400 grams vs 200 grams of protein.  What I did notice was less stomach aches and I was not shitting every ten minutes.

[local hero]

id love to see pics of some of the monsters eating less then 200g per day........ i would bet good money that they all look like average everyday people, maybe defined if they actualy do train at all......

why be on a bodybuilding site if u dont want to build your body, best thing about the sport is the eating for fucks sake!

[body88]

id love to see pics of some of the monsters eating less then 200g per day........ i would bet good money that they all look like average everyday people, maybe defined if they actualy do train at all......

why be on a bodybuilding site if u dont want to build your body, best thing about the sport is the eating for fucks sake!

Are you saying that 200 grams of protein is not enough to build muscle for a 200 lb man at 10% bf.  Lets see your picture big guy.  I bet you are huge and ripped 

[local hero]

sorry to dissapoint u bud but i am........ i competed as a jnr at just over 200lbs,, and it took alot more than 200g to get there....

[Tamer Razor]

Not necessarily. Larger boluses less frequently increase protein synthesis rates. Smaller, more frequent boluses increase PS less but it's elevated more constantly. So in the end it probably doesn't matter hugely whether you eat 3-4 or 6-7 meals for example.

What do you mean by "high amounts of carbs"? I think it's more correct to say eating in excess in general, leading to obesity, is what leads to diabetes etc. Not "high" carbs per se. If high carb intake was harmful Milos' methods would be very detrimental to health right? and we should all go on a ketogenic diet. Overconsumption of protein causes insulin resistance as well. *

EVIL ANGEL, what is your recommendation as far as protein intake? How many grams per pound? And if you can could you explain how you arrived at the figure.


*

High Consuption of Carbs is associate to diabetes as sugar will spike insulin, Protein and Fats have no comparable effect in insulin release, constant inspike in insulin and carbs easier metabolic conversion into fat is directly responsable for obesity and link in several studies to diabetes. Fructose and fructose corn syrup seem to have an even more acute insulin response what seems to indicate a higher risk of diabetes.
In terms of recommended Protein consuption is not a clear answer that seems to indicated the optimal amount. The recommendations seem to diverte dramatically. But if you make a distribution of your macronutrients using a caloric intake of 3000 cal. And using your primary objective to reduce body fat and increase muscle mass. You will logically limit energy supplies (carbs) and secondary supplie fat. We the intend to decrease muscle degradation and increase regeneration it seems biochemically logical to increase protein intake. Now looking at these conditions you will necessary have to have a elevated amount of protein on your daily intake.
Obs1- Milos recommends the use of insulin what obviously allow higher carb consumption, The use of insulin will eventually lead to its dependence.
Obs2- Stomach problems associate to high protein intake is MOST often associate to exaggerated use of protein supplementation not food. As always the weekend warriors try to get the majority of their protein form shakes instead of food. The use of the Protein shake is to SUPPLEMENT the food not take it over. You must consume 3/4 of your daily Protein intake from food not Protein shakes.

[240 is Back]

Hahah I like how he's got his hands on his hips like nothing's happened!

just playing it cool.

[Jadethegladiator]

no they wouldn't, low protein and low calories = muscle loss

I totally agree with Fatpanda.  Do I need a scientific explanation for this?  Nope, it's all about experience.  

[Van_Bilderass]

Obs1- Milos recommends the use of insulin what obviously allow higher carb consumption, The use of insulin will eventually lead to its dependence.

Aren't you a team Milos athlete or am I thinking of someone else? So you think insulin use like this will cause diabetes eventually?

Fructose and fructose corn syrup seem to have an even more acute insulin response what seems to indicate a higher risk of diabetes.

I don't think fructose spikes insulin even more than glucose for example. Do you have data to support this? The problem with very LARGE intakes of fructose is the metabolic pathways it takes and how it's converted to fat "easily". But even here, it's really not fructose itself that's dangerous but overconsumption of it and calories in general. Did you see the recent news about the fructose hysteria?

Although much fuss has been raised about high-fructose corn syrup, when it comes to calories and weight gain, it makes no difference if the sweetener was derived from corn, sugar cane, beets or fruit juice concentrate. All contain a combination of fructose and glucose and, gram for gram, supply the same number of calories. All contribute to the excessive caloric intake that has resulted in an epidemic of obesity among Americans in the last 25 years.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/10/health/nutrition/10brod.html?_r=1&em

White JS. Straight talk about high-fructose corn syrup: what it is and what it ain’t.   Am J Clin Nutr. 2008 Dec;88(6):1716S-1721S.

Abstract

High-fructose corn syrup (HFCS) is a fructose-glucose liquid sweetener alternative to sucrose (common table sugar) first introduced to the food and beverage industry in the 1970s. It is not meaningfully different in composition or metabolism from other fructose-glucose sweeteners like sucrose, honey, and fruit juice concentrates. HFCS was widely embraced by food formulators, and its use grew between the mid-1970s and mid-1990s, principally as a replacement for sucrose. This was primarily because of its sweetness comparable with that of sucrose, improved stability and functionality, and ease of use. Although HFCS use today is nearly equivalent to sucrose use in the United States, we live in a decidedly sucrose-sweetened world: >90% of the nutritive sweetener used worldwide is sucrose. Here I review the history, composition, availability, and characteristics of HFCS in a factual manner to clarify common misunderstandings that have been a source of confusion to health professionals and the general public alike. In particular, I evaluate the strength of the popular hypothesis that HFCS is uniquely responsible for obesity. Although examples of pure fructose causing metabolic upset at high concentrations abound, especially when fed as the sole carbohydrate source, there is no evidence that the common fructose-glucose sweeteners do the same. Thus, studies using extreme carbohydrate diets may be useful for probing biochemical pathways, but they have no relevance to the human diet or to current consumption. I conclude that the HFCS-obesity hypothesis is supported neither in the United States nor worldwide.

So I don't agree with you about cabrs spiking insulin being the  cause of obesity. It's the increase in calories primarily. You can get ripped as hell eating only very high glycemic carbs so obviously high GI isn't what makes you fat.