Author Topic: Protein, is far too complex to be produced by chance  (Read 10193 times)

Eisenherz

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Re: Protein, is far too complex to be produced by chance
« Reply #50 on: February 17, 2009, 12:44:17 PM »
Evolution depends on BENEFICIAL mutations that happen by chance.
Where in nature have we seen this happen?

Brutal_1

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Re: Protein, is far too complex to be produced by chance
« Reply #51 on: February 17, 2009, 12:49:11 PM »
Evolution depends on BENEFICIAL mutations that happen by chance.
Where in nature have we seen this happen?

Haven't you seen the movie  "UNBREAKABLE"  ???


There has to be a mutation that turns people into supermen  :D
just not good enough

Necrosis

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Re: Protein, is far too complex to be produced by chance
« Reply #52 on: February 17, 2009, 06:00:34 PM »
Evolution depends on BENEFICIAL mutations that happen by chance.
Where in nature have we seen this happen?

its relative, many africans have a mutation that maks then immune to malarial replication yet increases the sickling of erythrocytes. So it a relative thing, in america this is not beneficial, but being immune to an epidemic while risking slight anemia is certainly beneficial.

there are many papers on beneficial mutations, look at antibiotic resistant bacteria, they mutate to increase antibiotic resistant pumps all the time, certainly beneficial.

Eisenherz

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Re: Protein, is far too complex to be produced by chance
« Reply #53 on: February 17, 2009, 06:22:46 PM »
its relative, many africans have a mutation that maks then immune to malarial replication yet increases the sickling of erythrocytes. So it a relative thing, in america this is not beneficial, but being immune to an epidemic while risking slight anemia is certainly beneficial.

there are many papers on beneficial mutations, look at antibiotic resistant bacteria, they mutate to increase antibiotic resistant pumps all the time, certainly beneficial.

Are you referign to so called "super bugs"?
* ‘Supergerms’ are actually not ‘super’ at all. They are generally less hardy, and less fit to survive outside of the special conditions in hospitals.

*There are many instances in which germs become resistant by simple selection of resistance which already existed (including that ‘imported’ from other bacteria).

* Where a mutational defect causes resistance, the survival advantage is almost always caused by a loss of information. In no case is there any evidence of an information-adding, ‘uphill’ change.

* ‘Supergerms’ give no evidence to sustain the claim that living things evolved from simple to complex, by adding information progressively over millions of years.

hmmz it appears to be that their mutations are not beneficial  :-\

Marty Champions

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Re: Protein, is far too complex to be produced by chance
« Reply #54 on: February 17, 2009, 06:53:15 PM »
anything and everything that we know falls in the categorie of the 5 platonic structures in there design Plato said this back in the day and it holds true to dis day bitches
A

drkaje

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Re: Protein, is far too complex to be produced by chance
« Reply #55 on: February 17, 2009, 07:05:00 PM »
but that is to complex to happen by chance ::) i mean would the creator be more complex then the creation?



easily refuted argument, god is a failed hypothesis and has no rational arguments at all.

Typo, LOL!

I meant and not in need of worship.

At any rate, it's not something that needs explaining/refuting. Doesn't matter anyways but the way simple things we take for granted like the immune system are just too complicated to have happened through natural selection alone. Obviously, proteins and other primitive life forms leave no fossil record so it's entirely possible the earth is far older than our ability to appreciate so who knows.

liberalismo

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Re: Protein, is far too complex to be produced by chance
« Reply #56 on: February 17, 2009, 07:22:05 PM »
There are tons of examples of beneficial mutations


http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/mutations.html#Q2

Necrosis

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Re: Protein, is far too complex to be produced by chance
« Reply #57 on: February 18, 2009, 01:28:38 PM »
Are you referign to so called "super bugs"?
* ‘Supergerms’ are actually not ‘super’ at all. They are generally less hardy, and less fit to survive outside of the special conditions in hospitals.

*There are many instances in which germs become resistant by simple selection of resistance which already existed (including that ‘imported’ from other bacteria).

* Where a mutational defect causes resistance, the survival advantage is almost always caused by a loss of information. In no case is there any evidence of an information-adding, ‘uphill’ change.

* ‘Supergerms’ give no evidence to sustain the claim that living things evolved from simple to complex, by adding information progressively over millions of years.

hmmz it appears to be that their mutations are not beneficial  :-\


Again tons of examples of beneficial mutations, how isnt a bug that is resistant to antibiotics even in a hospital setting beneficial? it increases its fitness within the environmnet. Who said that superbugs were the prime evidence for gradual evolution, they provide some insight into mechanism but much better exampes exist, as well as evidence.

the fact that you are questioning one of the most championed and tested theories in science leads me to beleive you dont know much about it or are religious.

It literally has mountains of studies, and multidisciplinary convergence of evidences from all fields. Nothing has ever falsified it and many things could, the fact that all fields point to evolution should be proof enough.

calfzilla

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Re: Protein, is far too complex to be produced by chance
« Reply #58 on: June 15, 2009, 11:23:01 AM »
I make protein all the time.  It's not by chance.