Ideal natural physique

[liberalismo]

What's your personal bodybuilding experience? How long have you been following bodybuilding? Do you have many years of personally observing what drugs do to a persons physique?

I've been lifting weights since probably before you were born. Muscle drugs didn't become mainstream until the early 1980s, before that they were used mostly in the top bodybuilding or athletic circles like the Olympics. I've spent tons of time in the gym, and I've seen the progression of countless bodybuilders including myself. I've known a lot of very muscular and lean bodybuilders who had always said they were natural, and I've seen the progression of bodybuilders who have said they were using steroids. I know what a physique looks like when it's more likely that the person is using steroids than it is that they aren't, and Doug Miller's physique isn't at the point where I would say "Aha! He's obviously using steroids." Since that is the case, I take his word for it and the word of those people who know him and agree that he is natural.

[liberalismo]

Kinda like we laugh at twunts that think just because someone claims to be streroid free, then they must be, right?  Oh wait, they are tested....so are olympic athletes...some of the most juiced on the planet.  Dumbass...

Few Olympians use steroids. The one's that do just get tons of media attention, out of the thousands who don't. People only say that many use steroids because they are jealous of their accomplishments and bitter because they don't have what it takes to do the same.

[TacoBell]

Has it dawned on any of you brainiacs that maybe Doug is not like most people?  That maybe is he is one of those very rare individuals who combines superior genetics, superior work ethic, and also pays meticulous attention to his diets and supplements?  Could it be that is why he has risen to the top of his sport?

You assume Doug must be on drugs because none of you dingleberries, or any of the dingleberries you train with at your local gyms, looks like him.  But mabye the reason no one at your gym looks like one of the best pro natural bodybuilders in the country is because... follow me now... none of the top natural pros train at your gym.  There are only a handful of them... but thousands of gyms. 

How many of you have ever been to a natural bodybuilding show?  How many have been to a pro natural show?  Do any of you retards even know what some of the other top naturals look like?

You all think Doug looks too good to be natural, but believe it or not, he didn't win his last show, which was the IFPA Yorton Cup in 2007.  He lost to this guy:





Pretty good, huh?  Is he also on drugs... and therefore a liar and a cheat? (Maybe you should tell him that if you ever meet him in person.  He's a U.S. Marine.  That should be an interesting conversation.)

Here's the two of them together:





Here's the top three from that show:





At these shows, the competitors are polygraphed and the winners have to pass a urinalysis before they are officially declared the winner.  Are the IFPA officials who run the show liars and cheats?  And also the judges... the polygraph examiners... and the lab workers who do the urinalysis?  That's what you have to believe if you think Doug could compete in this contest and not be natural.

Get over your jealousy boys and hit the wieghts a little harder.  Oh... and since everyone here is so concerned with the training credentials of people posting, I can squat 355 and deadlift 435... and that's at 42 years old!

Dear Mr. 4 Posts,
Hi, I'm bigger than all the people you post pictures of, BIG ACH, and you.
Do you know why all these guys claim natural status?
Because as 'bodybuilders' they are nothing special.  Therefore they try to make themselves something, by qualifying themselves as natural.
They think, 'hey I have a physique that would be impressive if I was clean'.
No one would ever discuss them if they competed in the NPC.
Oh, and dudes wife is blatantly a user too.
See, some people here may indeed be foolish enough to buy into this crap, but not all of us.
In closing, Hi doug.

[MuscleMcMannus]

I've been lifting weights since probably before you were born. Muscle drugs didn't become mainstream until the early 1980s, before that they were used mostly in the top bodybuilding or athletic circles like the Olympics. I've spent tons of time in the gym, and I've seen the progression of countless bodybuilders including myself. I've known a lot of very muscular and lean bodybuilders who had always said they were natural, and I've seen the progression of bodybuilders who have said they were using steroids. I know what a physique looks like when it's more likely that the person is using steroids than it is that they aren't, and Doug Miller's physique isn't at the point where I would say "Aha! He's obviously using steroids." Since that is the case, I take his word for it and the word of those people who know him and agree that he is natural.

You are full of shit dude.  Sorry plain and simple this post wreaks of ignorance.  I've seen TONS of older guys that I know for a fact who've never used steroids and have been working out their entire adult life, one of them is a published author on the history of bodybuilding and probably has forgotten more than you know when it comes to bodybuilding (and I'm not trying to offend you either).  They look NOTHING like a steroid using bodybuilder.  Some of them look damn good but there is NEVER a question as to whether or not someone is using steroids.  And you're wrong........."muscle drugs" were extremely popular in the 70's.  I'd argue moreso than the 80's.  I'm not sure who Doug Miller is......is he the guy pictured in the OP's post?  If so he IS NO FUCKING WAY natural.  Especially for his age.  It takes years and years of dedicated discipline to build a truly impressive physique naturally.  And very few people do it nowadays, especially anyone under 30 years old.  

[MuscleMcMannus]

Liberalismo you are clueless dude.  That Doug Miller guy is NO FUCKING WAY IN HELL NATURAL.  Do you even know what natural looks like?  Casey Butt, who is actually a member here has what a truly natural physique looks like.  I believe Goudy is in fact natural or atleast has what a natural physique is supposed to look like. 

http://www.weightrainer.net/index.html

[kwri298]

"Big" ach looks natural.  His friends are lying to him about not being on the gas.  Maybe they should let him in on it, until then he should change his name to "little ach".

[liberalismo]

You are full of shit dude.  Sorry plain and simple this post wreaks of ignorance.  I've seen TONS of older guys that I know for a fact who've never used steroids and have been working out their entire adult life, one of them is a published author on the history of bodybuilding and probably has forgotten more than you know when it comes to bodybuilding (and I'm not trying to offend you either).  They look NOTHING like a steroid using bodybuilder.  Some of them look damn good but there is NEVER a question as to whether or not someone is using steroids.  And you're wrong........."muscle drugs" were extremely popular in the 70's.  I'd argue moreso than the 80's.  I'm not sure who Doug Miller is......is he the guy pictured in the OP's post?  If so he IS NO FUCKING WAY natural.  Especially for his age.  It takes years and years of dedicated discipline to build a truly impressive physique naturally.  And very few people do it nowadays, especially anyone under 30 years old.  

I don't know where to start, but based on this post it's obvious that you spend more time posting on Getbig.com than you do actually learning about bodybuilding. Let me address your post in numbers and refute your claims as I go along:

1. There is no such thing as a look of a "Steroid using bodybuilder". It's a fallacy to believe that all steroid users have a certain look. Take a look through: http://www.steroidology.com/forum/pictures-our-members/ and see what I am saying. MOST steroid users in general who bodybuild have physiques that can't even compare to the decent natural competitors. Look at that site and browse through some of the physiques of the steroid users, they look average. So saying that there is "never a question if someone is using steroids" is possibly the most ignorant statement in this thread.

2. I never said that muscle drugs weren't "popular" in the 60s or 70s. I said they were not "Mainstream". This means that you didn't see them in gyms all over like we do today. Today they are everywhere, but in the 60s and 70s only a small minority of recreational weight lifters used them.

[BIG ACH]

"Big" ach looks natural.  His friends are lying to him about not being on the gas.  Maybe they should let him in on it, until then he should change his name to "little ach".

You are right, I do look natural because I am natural, would be cool if I didn't look natural, but I do.  Never once did I claim that I don't???


And to Van Bilderass, I have NEVER competed in an OCB show that was NOT tested, every single show I was ever apart of had EVERY competitor (including myself) tested by either polygraph or Urine, and I have NEVER attended a an OCB or an IFPA show that was not tested I saw the drug tests myself, and I've seen people fail them.  

Who pays for it?  The competitor does... aside from the entry fee, all OCB and IFPA shows charge each competitor for the drug test.  Price of the test per competitor varies from promoter to promoter.

Sorry to let you guys down but they are natural!

[BIG ACH]

I'm sure Doug Miller himself would have a good laugh at all of the jealous couch potatoes on here claiming he's a steroid user.

By the way, Doug is laughing about this, he is the one that sent me the link to this thread and he said, and I quote "This is a funny thread!"

[Van_Bilderass]

And to Van Bilderass, I have NEVER competed in an OCB show that was NOT tested, every single show I was ever apart of had EVERY competitor (including myself) tested by either polygraph or Urine, and I have NEVER attended a an OCB or an IFPA show that was not tested I saw the drug tests myself, and I've seen people fail them.  

Who pays for it?  The competitor does... aside from the entry fee, all OCB and IFPA shows charge each competitor for the drug test.  Price of the test per competitor varies from promoter to promoter.

Sorry to let you guys down but they are natural!

How much is the test, approximately? Can you give a name of a lab that is used for this testing? Drug testing is very expensive and testing every competitor just doesn't sound right. What is common is that everyone pees in a cup but only a few samples are actually sent in. That's what a lot of feds do. Not even in the Olympics is every competitor tested. Sure, if your fed tests at all it's not a very comprehensive panel but it's still not cheap.

Has Doug used any of the hormones that weren't/aren't banned by the rules? Someone on this thread said he has admitted to using OTC hormones. Is that correct?

Is Core Nutritionals his company?

This is one of his products:
http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/core/zap.html

Contains this compound:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/07/AR2006050700913.html

An Illinois chemist awaiting sentencing for his role in the biggest steroid scandal in U.S. history has for months been involved in marketing a dietary supplement containing a little-known amphetamine-like substance that would be undetectable in current sports drug tests, according to an analysis of the product for The Post.

It's now on the WADA banned list from what I hear.

[The True Adonis]

Has it dawned on any of you brainiacs that maybe Doug is not like most people?  That maybe is he is one of those very rare individuals who combines superior genetics, superior work ethic, and also pays meticulous attention to his diets and supplements?  Could it be that is why he has risen to the top of his sport?

You assume Doug must be on drugs because none of you dingleberries, or any of the dingleberries you train with at your local gyms, looks like him.  But mabye the reason no one at your gym looks like one of the best pro natural bodybuilders in the country is because... follow me now... none of the top natural pros train at your gym.  There are only a handful of them... but thousands of gyms. 

How many of you have ever been to a natural bodybuilding show?  How many have been to a pro natural show?  Do any of you retards even know what some of the other top naturals look like?

You all think Doug looks too good to be natural, but believe it or not, he didn't win his last show, which was the IFPA Yorton Cup in 2007.  He lost to this guy:





Pretty good, huh?  Is he also on drugs... and therefore a liar and a cheat? (Maybe you should tell him that if you ever meet him in person.  He's a U.S. Marine.  That should be an interesting conversation.)

Here's the two of them together:





Here's the top three from that show:





At these shows, the competitors are polygraphed and the winners have to pass a urinalysis before they are officially declared the winner.  Are the IFPA officials who run the show liars and cheats?  And also the judges... the polygraph examiners... and the lab workers who do the urinalysis?  That's what you have to believe if you think Doug could compete in this contest and not be natural.

Get over your jealousy boys and hit the wieghts a little harder.  Oh... and since everyone here is so concerned with the training credentials of people posting, I can squat 355 and deadlift 435... and that's at 42 years old!

I think both are natural, but the fact that the black guy is a Marine and therefore must be natural is a laughable joke.  I have been around a few Marine bases and some of the Marines not only actively took steroids, they sold them as well.

[Go 4 It]

Serious question what kind of money can you make by competing naturally?

[BIG ACH]

How much is the test, approximately? Can you give a name of a lab that is used for this testing? Drug testing is very expensive and testing every competitor just doesn't sound right. What is common is that everyone pees in a cup but only a few samples are actually sent in. That's what a lot of feds do. Not even in the Olympics is every competitor tested. Sure, if your fed tests at all it's not a very comprehensive panel but it's still not cheap.

Has Doug used any of the hormones that weren't/aren't banned by the rules? Someone on this thread said he has admitted to using OTC hormones. Is that correct?

Is Core Nutritionals his company?

This is one of his products:
http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/core/zap.html

Contains this compound:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/07/AR2006050700913.html

It's now on the WADA banned list from what I hear.

From what I've paid it was about 50 dollars.

EVERY competitor is tested by polygraph by a law enforcement agency.  If Polygraph is not administered then every competitor is tested by urinalysis.  I can't tell you the name of the lab, but if you give me sometime I can get it, because I was sent a file with my lab results after the competition, I'll look for it and try to scan it for you.

Core is Doug's company, whatever is in his products, its aloud in the federations that he competes in.


As for money, there is no money in Natural bodybuilding, the top of the top pros probably make about 7000 dollars per show, thats if you're REALLY REALLY REALLY good, but thats a big exception.


James001, if you do a search you will find that he has posted in the past on getbig and admitted he never used and talked about it.

[Van_Bilderass]

well then why doesn't he chime in? let him come tell us he's never used anything.

He's in the business of selling stimulants that WADAs top anti-doping researchers have their eye on. This guy obviously is using, and selling, anything not expressly listed as banned by his fed. That's great, can't use ephedrine but this stimulant drug is fine. Drug free he is not. And this is obviously not all he's using.

[BIG ACH]

He's in the business of selling stimulants that WADAs top anti-doping researchers have their eye on. This guy obviously is using, and selling, anything not expressly listed as banned by his fed. That's great, can't use ephedrine but this stimulant drug is fine. Drug free he is not. And this is obviously not all he's using.

Look, this is not abut what the WADA has banned or not, this is about ANABOLIC STEROIDS.  There is a difference.

[BIG ACH]

I need to run and take the wife to the airport, will be back in a few hours and we can continue all this fun!!!

[Van_Bilderass]

From what I've paid it was about 50 dollars.

Well, you know damn well you can't get any lab testing for 50 bucks. Something smells in here. Window dressing.

[MuscleMcMannus]

steroids are very popular in the marines.

Haha this thread gets fucking more hilarious by the minute.  Oh my no Marine would ever use big bad steroids!  They are pristine and pure!  They don't kill their wives, rob, steal, cheat, like other members of society.  ?LMAO! This thread is a fucking joke.  Anyone that believes this Doug character is natural is a fucking moron.  I mean my god........look at the flaming Andy Haman took claiming he could bench press 600lbs for reps.  These bodybuilders are LIARS!  Plain and simple.  

There is ABSOLUTELY a look of a steroid user.  If you don't believe that you are clueless and have probably  never used steroids yourself.

[Van_Bilderass]

Look, this is not abut what the WADA has banned or not, this is about ANABOLIC STEROIDS.  There is a difference.

He calls himself drug free. And his fed forbids the use of stimulants, just not that specific one. What about the OTC hormones, has he used them or not?

[BIG ACH]

Well, you know damn well you can't get any lab testing for 50 bucks. Something smells in here. Window dressing.

All I can say is I got a Legit Lab report!

[bigdave]

in the pics where he is standing by himself he looks amazing but when he is next to ppl, then i can belive that he is natural

[MuscleMcMannus]

I need to run and take the wife to the airport, will be back in a few hours and we can continue all this fun!!!

You're a fucking dork!  You look like a fat slob when you're not in contest prep judging by the pics on your website.  There's no way in hell you are natural.  You might very well not be using "anabolic steroids" but you are not "natural".  Which is another moniker of these "natural" idiot bodybuilders.  They may not be using anabolic steroids but they use everything else under the sun. 

[TacoBell]

GH, IGF, Slin and TNE.....passing a drug test is easy as hell.

[liberalismo]

I don't know why anyone would want to try to justify themselves to you couch potato, pansy, envious ingrates. Wasted time and wasted energy is what it would be.

[Writerman]

Dear Mr. 4 Posts,
Hi, I'm bigger than all the people you post pictures of, BIG ACH, and you.

You must have an awesome physique.  What was the last show you did?