Ideal natural physique

[BIG ACH]

You're a fucking dork!  You look like a fat slob when you're not in contest prep judging by the pics on your website.  There's no way in hell you are natural.  You might very well not be using "anabolic steroids" but you are not "natural".  Which is another moniker of these "natural" idiot bodybuilders.  They may not be using anabolic steroids but they use everything else under the sun. 

Ok just got back!!!

MuscleMCMannus, Yes I get fat in the off-season, some off-seasons more than others!!!  I've been as heavy as 260 lbs.  This morning I weighed 215 lbs (Wow... true fat slob   )   I put myself out in the open with my pics PRE-CONTEST AND IN MY FAT OFF-SEASON shape and I'll never hide that.

Why don't you post your pictures tough guy?  If you look so much better than me, I'll be the first one to give you all the props you deserve.

As to whether I am natural or not.  Let me break it down to you and say what I have always said (and you can do a search on my posts in the past).  I have never once taken Anabolic Steroids or GH, IGF-1, Slin, or Insulin, OR ANY ILLEGAL bodybuilding supplements.
YES, I have taken OTC pro-hormones, in the past and even today, and I have never once denied or hid that.  When M1-T and 4-AD, 1-AD were legal I did take them in the off-season, and I made the organizations that I competed in completely aware of that, never hid it.  Had I taken them during pre-contest I would have failed the piss test and not been allowed to compete (EVEN IF IT WAS JUST PRO-HORMONES, there are no exceptions).  I've never used anything that was illegal or banned.
Today I take the pro-hormones that are allowed in my organizations (and anyone I compete with or the promoters know about it, I don't hide anything), again I wouldn't take them pre-contest because I wouldn't want to fail the piss test, but I will flat out admit it on the polygraph, and it is allowed by the organizations that I compete in.

So do I consider myself natural?  YES I DO, AND more importantly the organizations that I compete in CONSIDER ME Natural, and frankly that is what I care about, I don't care about what some guy on the internet that I have never met thinks.  If in your eyes taking OTC Pro-hormones is not natural and the same as using illegal anabolic steroids, then I guess in your eyes I will never be natural, and thats ok by me, that is your view, but the organizatons that I compete in consider me natural and thats what matters to me.

As for the debate about whether these OTC Pro-hormones are the same as real steroids, I wouldn't know I've never done real steroids.  I will say that OTC Pro-hormones DO WORK, ESPECIALLY M1-T, god I miss that stuff!!!!!  But do they work as well as REAL STEROIDS?  I have no clue, but if you do a search on google, you will see lots of people that HAVE used steroids tell you that its nothing close!!!!!

Now, you called me a fat slob, and frankly I really don't care, yeah I have been a fat slob at times in the off-season, especially when I was 260!!!!!  But now its my turn....  Post your pic, and I'll be ready to give you all the props that you deserve!!!

Peace!

[MuscleMcMannus]

why are you quoting me? I was serious... roids are very popular in the marines.

DUDE I AGREE!  I was being sarcastic!  Of course steroids are big in the Marines.  

[BIG ACH]

Shits like anadrol on steroids. 

M1-T was the BEST pro-hormone I have ever taken!!!! Hands down!!!

Is it like real juice, I really dunno because I've never used, but M1-T works and works GOOD!!!!  I used it for sometime before it became illegal!!!  AND I DO MISS IT, best thing about it was you could walk right into Vitamin shoppe and buy it!

[MuscleMcMannus]

Ok just got back!!!

MuscleMCMannus, Yes I get fat in the off-season, some off-seasons more than others!!!  I've been as heavy as 260 lbs.  This morning I weighed 215 lbs (Wow... true fat slob   )   I put myself out in the open with my pics PRE-CONTEST AND IN MY FAT OFF-SEASON shape and I'll never hide that.

Why don't you post your pictures tough guy?  If you look so much better than me, I'll be the first one to give you all the props you deserve.

As to whether I am natural or not.  Let me break it down to you and say what I have always said (and you can do a search on my posts in the past).  I have never once taken Anabolic Steroids or GH, IGF-1, Slin, or Insulin, OR ANY ILLEGAL bodybuilding supplements.
YES, I have taken OTC pro-hormones, in the past and even today, and I have never once denied or hid that.  When M1-T and 4-AD, 1-AD were legal I did take them in the off-season, and I made the organizations that I competed in completely aware of that, never hid it.  Had I taken them during pre-contest I would have failed the piss test and not been allowed to compete (EVEN IF IT WAS JUST PRO-HORMONES, there are no exceptions).  I've never used anything that was illegal or banned.
Today I take the pro-hormones that are allowed in my organizations (and anyone I compete with or the promoters know about it, I don't hide anything), again I wouldn't take them pre-contest because I wouldn't want to fail the piss test, but I will flat out admit it on the polygraph, and it is allowed by the organizations that I compete in.

So do I consider myself natural?  YES I DO, AND more importantly the organizations that I compete in CONSIDER ME Natural, and frankly that is what I care about, I don't care about what some guy on the internet that I have never met thinks.  If in your eyes taking OTC Pro-hormones is not natural and the same as using illegal anabolic steroids, then I guess in your eyes I will never be natural, and thats ok by me, that is your view, but the organizatons that I compete in consider me natural and thats what matters to me.

As for the debate about whether these OTC Pro-hormones are the same as real steroids, I wouldn't know I've never done real steroids.  I will say that OTC Pro-hormones DO WORK, ESPECIALLY M1-T, god I miss that stuff!!!!!  But do they work as well as REAL STEROIDS?  I have no clue, but if you do a search on google, you will see lots of people that HAVE used steroids tell you that its nothing close!!!!!

Now, you called me a fat slob, and frankly I really don't care, yeah I have been a fat slob at times in the off-season, especially when I was 260!!!!!  But now its my turn....  Post your pic, and I'll be ready to give you all the props that you deserve!!!

Peace!

What about ephedrine?  Clen?  I'm not going to post my pics you're crazy.  You're not natural buddy give it a rest.  Natural to me is regular food and that's it and protein powders, amino acids etc.  No ephedrine, no prohormones, no clen no NOTHING!  And now that you've admitted it you definitely look like someone who uses the shit out of prohormones because you have that big puffy fat look........almost like you're body is producing too much estrogen which happens moreso with prohormones and not so much with synthetic anabolics and straight testosterone.  

[TacoBell]

M1t is not, nor ever was, a 'pro-hormone'.
M1t is an active steroidal compound, same as superdrol.
They are no more or less a steroid than Dbol, drol, var, winni etc....

And mg for mg, they are stronger than any of the others listed above.

[MuscleMcMannus]

Prohormones suck.  If they were so good pros would be using them instead of steroids.  I've used them and they are NOTHING like real testosterone, dbol, anavar, etc.  Why do you think the medical community invented synthetic derivatives instead of using prohormones? Prohormones are inefficient and too much converts to estrogen hence why everyone complains of sensitive nipples all the time.  

[BIG ACH]

What about ephedrine?  Clen?  I'm not going to post my pics you're crazy.  You're not natural buddy give it a rest.  Natural to me is regular food and that's it and protein powders, amino acids etc.  No ephedrine, no prohormones, no clen no NOTHING!  And now that you've admitted it you definitely look like someone who uses the shit out of prohormones because you have that big puffy fat look........almost like you're body is producing too much estrogen which happens moreso with prohormones and not so much with synthetic anabolics and straight testosterone.  

Never Used Clen!

Definitely used Ephedra, I think every single competitive bodybuilder natural or not has used the original ripped fuel, hydroxycut, xenadrine, hot rox it was in all of those OTC fat burners, so yes I have used it!!!

And no I have not used that shit out of pro-hormones but I have used them.  

Don't post your picture, I'll just take your word that you look better than me  

And like I said, I really don't care if you consider me natural or not, All natural organizations except the WNBF would consider me natural.  So thats what matters to me!!!

[BIG ACH]

Prohormones suck.  If they were so good pros would be using them instead of steroids.  I've used them and they are NOTHING like real testosterone, dbol, anavar, etc.  Why do you think the medical community invented synthetic derivatives instead of using prohormones? Prohormones are inefficient and too much converts to estrogen hence why everyone complains of sensitive nipples all the time.  

If you are saying that, how can you go and compare and say ones who use OTC Pro-hormones are not natural, and its the same shit???  you are going back and forth in your word?

[liberalismo]

Buddy, you dont get it.
I've posted pics, plenty of times.
Its just that neither of you two homos deserve the satisfaction of thinking you are important enough that I should prove myself to you.
Sorry.

You can't prove yourself to anyone. If you could, you would have done so a long time ago in this thread. No one argues for pages trying to justify why he doesn't want to prove himself, any sane person would just post a picture and shut the people up. So shut us up and prove that you're what you claim you are. If you can't...YOU ought to shut up. Put up or shut up!

[dam225]

They are real steroids and many credible people have testified that M1T for example is the strongest oral they have used. Including things like Dianabol and Anadrol. There's a reason M1T was on steroid dealer lists after the ban.

If someone has used them it reveals a certain mindset = you have no problem using hormones as long as they aren't expressly banned. There are a bunch of hormones still not on those lists so there are still ways to drug yourself while claiming "natural". The fact that Doug sells the stimulant means he isn't above using experimental psychoactive drugs either. As long as it's not on the banned list. I did a search on bb.com and he is on there asking if a certain hormone derivative is fine to use and if it will cause you to test positive. He has the druggie mindset.

I debated about whether to post or not on here, but I guess it can’t hurt LOL. This will probably be my first and last post because I don’t have a lot of time these days. I really don’t care what any of you think about me.  Oh and the comments about my wife were nice too..ha. I understand its just the internet and you all say things to get a rise and a chuckle and that’s cool…whatever floats your boat.  I want to set a couple things straight and the reason why I quoted this post.  

I have a biochemistry and molecular biology degree and have always had an interest in supplements….Hence the reason I started Core Nutritionals. One of the reasons the OCB has the most specific and broadest drug testing banned list is because I am in the industry and helped bring these “prohormones” to the attention of OCB officers. In fact, up until this year, I would often respond to questions regarding banned substances for the organization since I new the most about the supplement industry and the crap people were pushing as safe OTC products. That is bull many OTC products are steroids and should be banned! No other natural BB org has as thorough of a list as the OCB! I’m not sure what thread you are referring to on BB.com but I have often asked about the metabolites of products so we can get them added to the banned list. In fact, I was the one who brought up the fact that ATD and other similar substances could probably cause positive urinalysis tests and should thus be banned. And for the record, I have not used any of the products mentioned, Van.

BTW Core ZAP is a great, safe, effective product that is not on any banned lists….and shouldn’t be!

It is kind of sad many of you think what I have achieved (and my wife) can’t be done without drugs. I’m never going to convince the doubters so I really don’t care. Best of luck to you all. I plan to bring an even better physique in 2009.

Best,
Doug

[liberalismo]

M1T is without a steroid so is Superdrol.  The thousands of people who have used them, including myself, can readily attest to their extreme effectiveness.  Sorry but the only crazy talk going on is your epic denial.

I've talked to TONS of people who can "attest to the extreme effectiveness" of Celltech as well. Literally. That doesn't prove anything. Anyone who gets any gains from M1T (Or any other prohormone) must be so hormonally challenged and physically impotent that it's a shock to their feeble systems.

[liberalismo]

So what are you saying? M1T is not an anabolic steroid?

Here's a pubmed entry for a steroid which was sold under names such as "Phera-Plex" etc. Also fine to use a couple of years ago in Doug's fed (banned Jan of 07). 

It's a "Steroid precursor". There's a difference.

[Van_Bilderass]

You can't prove yourself to anyone. If you could, you would have done so a long time ago in this thread. No one argues for pages trying to justify why he doesn't want to prove himself, any sane person would just post a picture and shut the people up. So shut us up and prove that you're what you claim you are. If you can't...YOU ought to shut up. Put up or shut up!

Big Ach has now admitted to using anabolic steroids. If Doug is the same type of natural will you concede that we who think he's a juicer were right?

[Eisenherz]

This guy said he's natural liberloser, http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=post;quote=3724895;topic=264827.0;num_replies=31;sesc=5683a63ce46e2094f248e37b4cf0396d

come on i am natural, i dont juice.

IT MUST BE TRUE!!

[Van_Bilderass]

It's a "Steroid precursor". There's a difference.

Absolutely wrong. The whole term "pro-hormone" was a way for supplement companies to try avoiding heat from the law. Even worse was the term "pro-steroid". What the hell is that?

M1T is an active steroid in itself and even if it needed to convert to active metabolites what's the difference? Lots of illegal steroids convert to more active metabolites.

[liberalismo]

What about ephedrine?  Clen?  I'm not going to post my pics you're crazy.  You're not natural buddy give it a rest.  Natural to me is regular food and that's it and protein powders, amino acids etc.  No ephedrine, no prohormones, no clen no NOTHING!  And now that you've admitted it you definitely look like someone who uses the shit out of prohormones because you have that big puffy fat look........almost like you're body is producing too much estrogen which happens moreso with prohormones and not so much with synthetic anabolics and straight testosterone.  

How the fuck are synthetic Protein powders and amino acids "natural" while prohormones are unnatural? How is ephedrine unnatural? Is Caffeine unnatural too?

[BIG ACH]

Big Ach has now admitted to using anabolic steroids. If Doug is the same type of natural will you concede that we who think he's a juicer were right?

Whatever you say buddy!

[Emmortal]

are you stupid or what?

Is that a trick question?

[Emmortal]

M1-T was the BEST pro-hormone I have ever taken!!!! Hands down!!!

Is it like real juice, I really dunno because I've never used, but M1-T works and works GOOD!!!!  I used it for sometime before it became illegal!!!  AND I DO MISS IT, best thing about it was you could walk right into Vitamin shoppe and buy it!

Just quoting for posterity sake.

[BIG ACH]

Just quoting for posterity sake.

Just putting it all out in the open!!!!

[liberalismo]

I debated about whether to post or not on here, but I guess it can’t hurt LOL. This will probably be my first and last post because I don’t have a lot of time these days. I really don’t care what any of you think about me.  Oh and the comments about my wife were nice too..ha. I understand its just the internet and you all say things to get a rise and a chuckle and that’s cool…whatever floats your boat.  I want to set a couple things straight and the reason why I quoted this post.  

I have a biochemistry and molecular biology degree and have always had an interest in supplements….Hence the reason I started Core Nutritionals. One of the reasons the OCB has the most specific and broadest drug testing banned list is because I am in the industry and helped bring these “prohormones” to the attention of OCB officers. In fact, up until this year, I would often respond to questions regarding banned substances for the organization since I new the most about the supplement industry and the crap people were pushing as safe OTC products. That is bull many OTC products are steroids and should be banned! No other natural BB org has as thorough of a list as the OCB! I’m not sure what thread you are referring to on BB.com but I have often asked about the metabolites of products so we can get them added to the banned list. In fact, I was the one who brought up the fact that ATD and other similar substances could probably cause positive urinalysis tests and should thus be banned. And for the record, I have not used any of the products mentioned, Van.

BTW Core ZAP is a great, safe, effective product that is not on any banned lists….and shouldn’t be!

It is kind of sad many of you think what I have achieved (and my wife) can’t be done without drugs. I’m never going to convince the doubters so I really don’t care. Best of luck to you all. I plan to bring an even better physique in 2009.

Best,
Doug

Thanks for taking the time to post a message for these pricks here. Obviously neither you, nor I, nor anyone else could ever possibly convince them that someone with a superior physique to theirs can be achieved without drugs. This would damage their massive egos, and thus they refuse to admit that it can be accomplished. It's an issue of prideful ignorance that causes them to deny individuals their accomplishments, and it saddens me.

[Van_Bilderass]

I’m not sure what thread you are referring to on BB.com but I have often asked about the metabolites of products so we can get them added to the banned list. In fact, I was the one who brought up the fact that ATD and other similar substances could probably cause positive urinalysis tests and should thus be banned. And for the record, I have not used any of the products mentioned, Van.

BTW Core ZAP is a great, safe, effective product that is not on any banned lists….and shouldn’t be!

It is kind of sad many of you think what I have achieved (and my wife) can’t be done without drugs. I really don’t care. Best of luck to you all. I plan to bring an even better physique in 2009.

The methylhexaneamine is a great drug, yes. I like it. But it is a drug and there's little research on it so you can't state for certain that it's safe. You are a drug user. How ridiculous that your org bans ephedrine, considering how much data there is on it, yet you pimp this untested shit! LOL 

Here's the thread:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=109239851&

[Van_Bilderass]

How the fuck are synthetic Protein powders and amino acids "natural" while prohormones are unnatural? How is ephedrine unnatural? Is Caffeine unnatural too?

What the hell is this? Whoa! Here's something natural: testosterone. A 3cc syringe loaded with testosterone.

[liberalismo]

Big Ach has now admitted to using anabolic steroids. If Doug is the same type of natural will you concede that we who think he's a juicer were right?

I think Doug has just said that he's never used Steroidal compounds, and even rallied for them to be banned in his organization.


If M1t Is considered a steroid, and If Big Ach has used them, then he's not "natural natural" but he's still quite close. I don't consider M1t to be anywhere near the level of typical steroids.

[MuscleMcMannus]

How the fuck are synthetic Protein powders and amino acids "natural" while prohormones are unnatural? How is ephedrine unnatural? Is Caffeine unnatural too?

Are you that stupid?  They don't manipulate hormones, metabolism or anything like that.  You are being ridiculous now. 

Doug you are a liar and a supplement charlatan.  Just like Andy Haman and everyone else.  You guys are fucking frauds to the Nth degree!  Give it up loser!  We aren't newbie teenagers.