Ideal natural physique

[liberalismo]

I really wish you could understand that this guy is deceiving you... not to mention his livelihood is based on deceiving people - he sells supplements... which do jack shit.

this has nothing to do with ego... his body looks good - but he's a piece of shit.

but what do I know? I'm a lowly artist. I'll go back to my brushes now.

Your art lacks decent symmetry. It reminds me of those drawings of Napoleon Dynamite.

[liberalismo]

Are you that stupid?  They don't manipulate hormones, metabolism or anything like that.  You are being ridiculous now. 

Doug you are a liar and a supplement charlatan.  Just like Andy Haman and everyone else.  You guys are fucking frauds to the Nth degree!  Give it up loser!  We aren't newbie teenagers.

Are YOU that stupid? EVERYTHING that you put into your body manipulates hormones and metabolism. This is a basic medical fact of life.

Foods, vitamins, supplements, etc. All have effects on hormones and metabolism.

Why is Caffeine natural but Ephedrine not natural?

Why is Protein Powder, Creatine or whatever else natural but Pro-Hormones not?

Caffeine, Protein Powder, Creatine, Fried Chicken, All have effects on hormones and metabolism in the body.

[dam225]

I really wish you could understand that this guy is deceiving you... not to mention his livelihood is based on deceiving people - he sells supplements... which do jack shit.

this has nothing to do with ego... his body looks good - but he's a piece of shit.

but what do I know? I'm a lowly artist. I'll go back to my brushes now.

LOL you really are clueless...Core Nutritionals is a tiny company (right now) and not my day job...I do it for fun. I'm a full time manager at an economic consulting firm. You don't know me at all...we would probably get along fine if you met me at the gym...just you wouldn't be calling me a piece of shit LOL

[liberalismo]

personal attacks... tsk tsk. for a man of your advanced years... thats awfully childish.

I'm attacking your art, Not you. I've attacked you plenty already in this thread.


When someone walks among the swine, they can't keep their feet clean!

[dam225]

The methylhexaneamine is a great drug, yes. I like it. But it is a drug and there's little research on it so you can't state for certain that it's safe. You are a drug user. How ridiculous that your org bans ephedrine, considering how much data there is on it, yet you pimp this untested shit! LOL 

Here's the thread:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=109239851&

Yeah I really like 7-keto DHEA and I think it is a great product. I just am always careful when companies throw new abreviations into their proprietary blends (why Core doesn't use prop blends) and wouldnt want to take anything that is hormonal. 7-keto is not banned by INBF/OCB and shouldn't be.

If you want a free sample of Core ZAP...go to www.corenutritionals.com and lcick on sign up....put free sample of ZAP in the comments box :-)

[dam225]

well I actually get along with most people.. I just despise supplement companies. can you list your product line?

Core MRP
Core PWO
Core ABC
Core ZAP

go to www.corenutritionals.com and click on products. I designed them around what has worked for me! They are all great formulas IMO.

[liberalismo]

Since we've gotten off topic, I want to put us back on topic to the OP.



Doug Miller IS natural by any reasonable and conventional definition of the word "natural". His physique CAN and has many times been attained naturally. Anyone doubting this doubts it due to their own bias and envy.

[liberalismo]

says you? you say lots of whacked out stuff... so who cares? you're a silly old man who's terribly out of touch.

Says Doug. Says the people who know him. Says anyone who knows anything about Natural Bodybuilding.

[liberalismo]

doug never said he's never used any drugs.

You're being vague. EVERYONE uses "drugs".


Doug is "natural". THis doesn't mean that he's never used "drugs", it just means that he's never used steroids or other banned substances. Caffeine is a drug, Ephedra is a drug, Asprin is a drug....But using these doesn't disqualify one from being natural.

[liberalismo]

Even Doug's wife puts most getbiggers to shame in the muscle department:

[liberalismo]

I'm talking about bodybuilding drugs - and ephedrine should qualify.

I believe he has used steroids... maybe not banned steroids but that's splitting hairs.. and there are many other BB drugs that he could use and go undetected.

the bottom line is that neither of us knows what doug has or has not done. so you cant say  - you're not doug... I cant say either.

but the trained eye knows.... at the end of the day what does it matter? we both agree that the guy looks great.

I'm tired of arguing it anyway. There's no way to convince anyone who already has their minds made up.

[Jadethegladiator]

Hello, take your multi-vitamin, 3+ grams of vitamin C, g/c/msm, 2 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight and call it a day.  Throw in some melatonin too.  Gotta get your b-bing sleep.  

  

[Stavios]

What the hell is this? Whoa! Here's something natural: testosterone. A 3cc syringe loaded with testosterone.

heeeeeeeeeeellll yess 

[PumpMeUp]

Damn, liberalismo, you've really fallen hard for this guy. Haven't you?

[robins]

I have used the old lean xtreme for contest prep and know that 7-oh is fine for natural competitions but I want to make sure the 5-AT found in the new version of lean xtreme is also okay before I recommend it to any clients. Will this cause a positive urine test?
Thanks,
Doug

Okay thanks guys. I just want to be careful. You can never tell these days. I wanted to be sure before recommending it to a client.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=109239851&

I wonder who that client is.

[The True Adonis]

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=109239851&

I wonder who that client is.

Does this mean the plot thickens?  I have no clue what that supplement is or means so I cannot say what any of that means.

[DK II]

Ok just got back!!!

MuscleMCMannus, Yes I get fat in the off-season, some off-seasons more than others!!!  I've been as heavy as 260 lbs.  This morning I weighed 215 lbs (Wow... true fat slob   )   I put myself out in the open with my pics PRE-CONTEST AND IN MY FAT OFF-SEASON shape and I'll never hide that.

Why don't you post your pictures tough guy?  If you look so much better than me, I'll be the first one to give you all the props you deserve.

As to whether I am natural or not.  Let me break it down to you and say what I have always said (and you can do a search on my posts in the past).  I have never once taken Anabolic Steroids or GH, IGF-1, Slin, or Insulin, OR ANY ILLEGAL bodybuilding supplements.
YES, I have taken OTC pro-hormones, in the past and even today, and I have never once denied or hid that.  When M1-T and 4-AD, 1-AD were legal I did take them in the off-season, and I made the organizations that I competed in completely aware of that, never hid it.  Had I taken them during pre-contest I would have failed the piss test and not been allowed to compete (EVEN IF IT WAS JUST PRO-HORMONES, there are no exceptions).  I've never used anything that was illegal or banned.
Today I take the pro-hormones that are allowed in my organizations (and anyone I compete with or the promoters know about it, I don't hide anything), again I wouldn't take them pre-contest because I wouldn't want to fail the piss test, but I will flat out admit it on the polygraph, and it is allowed by the organizations that I compete in.

So do I consider myself natural?  YES I DO, AND more importantly the organizations that I compete in CONSIDER ME Natural, and frankly that is what I care about, I don't care about what some guy on the internet that I have never met thinks.  If in your eyes taking OTC Pro-hormones is not natural and the same as using illegal anabolic steroids, then I guess in your eyes I will never be natural, and thats ok by me, that is your view, but the organizatons that I compete in consider me natural and thats what matters to me.

As for the debate about whether these OTC Pro-hormones are the same as real steroids, I wouldn't know I've never done real steroids.  I will say that OTC Pro-hormones DO WORK, ESPECIALLY M1-T, god I miss that stuff!!!!!  But do they work as well as REAL STEROIDS?  I have no clue, but if you do a search on google, you will see lots of people that HAVE used steroids tell you that its nothing close!!!!!

Now, you called me a fat slob, and frankly I really don't care, yeah I have been a fat slob at times in the off-season, especially when I was 260!!!!!  But now its my turn....  Post your pic, and I'll be ready to give you all the props that you deserve!!!

Peace!

You're a fukcing idiot. How dumb can ahuman be??

[robins]

Does this mean the plot thickens?  I have no clue what that supplement is or means so I cannot say what any of that means.

It's the old "a friend of my wants to do a cycle" story. Doug is aware of the fact that it's a public board en he's a well known person in the "natural" industry. So he comes up with this "recommending to a client" stuff.

They are real steroids and many credible people have testified that M1T for example is the strongest oral they have used. Including things like Dianabol and Anadrol. There's a reason M1T was on steroid dealer lists after the ban.

If someone has used them it reveals a certain mindset = you have no problem using hormones as long as they aren't expressly banned. There are a bunch of hormones still not on those lists so there are still ways to drug yourself while claiming "natural". The fact that Doug sells the stimulant means he isn't above using experimental psychoactive drugs either. As long as it's not on the banned list. I did a search on bb.com and he is on there asking if a certain hormone derivative is fine to use and if it will cause you to test positive. He has the druggie mindset.

Very true.

[#1 Klaus fan]

Dear Mr. 4 Posts,
Hi, I'm bigger than all the people you post pictures of, BIG ACH, and you.
Do you know why all these guys claim natural status?
Because as 'bodybuilders' they are nothing special.  Therefore they try to make themselves something, by qualifying themselves as natural.
They think, 'hey I have a physique that would be impressive if I was clean'.
No one would ever discuss them if they competed in the NPC.
Oh, and dudes wife is blatantly a user too.
See, some people here may indeed be foolish enough to buy into this crap, but not all of us.
In closing, Hi doug.

Exactly.

[#1 Klaus fan]

Aaah, nice to see another "natural" busted.

[dam225]

It's the old "a friend of my wants to do a cycle" story. Doug is aware of the fact that it's a public board en he's a well known person in the "natural" industry. So he comes up with this "recommending to a client" stuff.
Very true.

Another natural busted? what are you talking about, seriously....the product I asked about is called Lean Xtreme (the new version)...it contains 7-keto/7-OH DHEA which is a none hormonal metabolite of DHEA. The 5-AT in the product was what I was asking about since I didn't know anything about it. If it was hormonal, I was not going to recommend the product to a client of mine. I have taken Lean Xtreme in the past before they added 5-AT to it...I would never recommend a product to a client that I would not take myself. It turns out that 5-AT is another none-hormonal, non-banned, safe metabolite of DHEA.  Now I can tell that you all really have no clue. Thanks for helping me with that.

And to the person that said I never claimed to be drug-free WTF are you talking about? I have never taken steroids, GH, inslin, etc, etc. I have been polygraphed many times and have been tested by urine both in and out of season. I believe for my last show I was tested around 18 weeks out and again on show day. I could probably find the urinalysis results. Keep hating.....I will keep growing :-)

[Fatpanda]

Another natural busted? what are you talking about, seriously....the product I asked about is called Lean Xtreme (the new version)...it contains 7-keto/7-OH DHEA which is a none hormonal metabolite of DHEA. The 5-AT in the product was what I was asking about since I didn't know anything about it. If it was hormonal, I was not going to recommend the product to a client of mine. I have taken Lean Xtreme in the past before they added 5-AT to it...I would never recommend a product to a client that I would not take myself. It turns out that 5-AT is another none-hormonal, non-banned, safe metabolite of DHEA.  Now I can tell that you all really have no clue. Thanks for helping me with that.

And to the person that said I never claimed to be drug-free WTF are you talking about? I have never taken steroids, GH, inslin, etc, etc. I have been polygraphed many times and have been tested by urine both in and out of season. I believe for my last show I was tested around 18 weeks out and again on show day. I could probably find the urinalysis results. Keep hating.....I will keep growing :-)

i don't understand the need for you to lie to us all. You are not alone, everyone on that stage uses gear. We are not stupid ( well apart from liberalismo)

[kwri298]

Anyone that claims that M1T, Superdrol, etc. are not real steriods are COMPLETELY mistaken.  I have taken the real deal (test, deca) and I have taken Superdrol and I honestly believe Superdrol is more powerful and more dangerous.  After 3 weeks on Superdrol I start getting headaches and nose bleeds, but my strenght goes through the roof.

I have alot of Superdrol left but the side effects are so bad I don't take it.

[liberalismo]

Anyone that claims that M1T, Superdrol, etc. are not real steriods are COMPLETELY mistaken.  I have taken the real deal (test, deca) and I have taken Superdrol and I honestly believe Superdrol is more powerful and more dangerous.  After 3 weeks on Superdrol I start getting headaches and nose bleeds, but my strenght goes through the roof.

I have alot of Superdrol left but the side effects are so bad I don't take it.

Superdrol is more powerful than test? 

[TacoBell]

Superdrol is more powerful than test? 

Mg for mg, yes absolutely.

Lets see, standard dose of sd 20mg....standard dose of test 500mg .

No one in their right mind would take 500mg of sd.

Does this make sense yet?  You seem to be rather 'thick' up top.