Author Topic: The Christian Response to Homosexuality  (Read 11074 times)

liberalismo

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Re: The Christian Response to Homosexuality
« Reply #25 on: February 19, 2009, 10:47:49 AM »
Scientists have discovered that certain genetic traits exist almost exclusively in homosexuals opposed to heterosexuals. This can be proven. But if we're looking at a homosexual and know that they had some event occur in their life, how can we deduce that this event played any role in their homosexuality?


I don't know who Bennett or Sneeringer are, but I do know that homosexuals can't "leave" homosexuality anymore than heterosexuals can leave heterosexuality. I'm a heterosexual and it would be impossible for me to make a choice to become homosexual. Simply impossible. I can make a choice to do a lot of things, and actually go through with them, that I wouldn't otherwise do. But I could NEVER make myself attracted to another man. Nothing is there because I was born straight, not gay.


My father was estranged when I was a child. Yet I'm totally heterosexual. You're finding some random event in someone's life and trying to apply it to something later in their life, but it just doesn't fit. Is there any proof that this persons estranged father (or the womans abuse) had any affect on their sexuality? Any proof?


There have been plenty of studies done showing genetic characteristics of homosexuality. It's a very complex thing, and there is no 1 single thing that can influence homosexuality. It's a lot of things. Hormone levels during birth are one big influence.
Why can't doctors figure out who is gay and who isn't before they become adults? Doctors probably can to some accuracy, but who would support such an initiative?


Can homosexuality influence a persons genes? I don't see how. Genes are influenced by things like sexuality. The only things that can influence genes are traumatic life events like exposure to radiation or chemicals, etc. Genes are quite concrete and are rarely changed during life, especially not by someone's sexuality.


Can sexual contact permanently alter the brain? I don't know. Perhaps more likely if someone is a child. I'm not disputing the fact that molestation can have a role in later sexuality. Children brains are very plastic and can be changed quite easily, and thus some experience like this may have an influence on the persons sexuality.
But this would only mean that an environment factor (like child abuse) would simply make it "more likely" for someone to become homosexual as an adult, as their genes for such are already there. This is why not all kids who were molested are gay today.
(and why only a few % of gay people were molested) So in the end, Genes make the difference.



loco

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Re: The Christian Response to Homosexuality
« Reply #26 on: February 19, 2009, 10:55:58 AM »
Scientists have discovered that certain genetic traits exist almost exclusively in homosexuals opposed to heterosexuals. This can be proven. But if we're looking at a homosexual and know that they had some event occur in their life, how can we deduce that this event played any role in their homosexuality?


I don't know who Bennett or Sneeringer are, but I do know that homosexuals can't "leave" homosexuality anymore than heterosexuals can leave heterosexuality. I'm a heterosexual and it would be impossible for me to make a choice to become homosexual. Simply impossible. I can make a choice to do a lot of things, and actually go through with them, that I wouldn't otherwise do. But I could NEVER make myself attracted to another man. Nothing is there because I was born straight, not gay.


My father was estranged when I was a child. Yet I'm totally heterosexual. You're finding some random event in someone's life and trying to apply it to something later in their life, but it just doesn't fit. Is there any proof that this persons estranged father (or the womans abuse) had any affect on their sexuality? Any proof?


There have been plenty of studies done showing genetic characteristics of homosexuality. It's a very complex thing, and there is no 1 single thing that can influence homosexuality. It's a lot of things. Hormone levels during birth are one big influence.
Why can't doctors figure out who is gay and who isn't before they become adults? Doctors probably can to some accuracy, but who would support such an initiative?


Can homosexuality influence a persons genes? I don't see how. Genes are influenced by things like sexuality. The only things that can influence genes are traumatic life events like exposure to radiation or chemicals, etc. Genes are quite concrete and are rarely changed during life, especially not by someone's sexuality.


Can sexual contact permanently alter the brain? I don't know. Perhaps more likely if someone is a child. I'm not disputing the fact that molestation can have a role in later sexuality. Children brains are very plastic and can be changed quite easily, and thus some experience like this may have an influence on the persons sexuality.
But this would only mean that an environment factor (like child abuse) would simply make it "more likely" for someone to become homosexual as an adult, as their genes for such are already there. This is why not all kids who were molested are gay today.
(and why only a few % of gay people were molested) So in the end, Genes make the difference.




Still, no scientific proof that homosexuality is genetic as of today...not that it makes any difference to me.

liberalismo

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Re: The Christian Response to Homosexuality
« Reply #27 on: February 19, 2009, 11:02:37 AM »
Still, no scientific proof that homosexuality is genetic as of today...not that it makes any difference to me.


It's been proven that homosexuality is mostly genetic with environmental components. It's NOT a choice.
Find many online studies.

Only Christians argue against homosexuality being genetic. Because it would conflict with their idea of freewill and Sin and a loving God. That's all.

MCWAY

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Re: The Christian Response to Homosexuality
« Reply #28 on: February 19, 2009, 11:07:49 AM »



You're citing an entire book here. I can't even find any information on Dr. N.E Whitehead on google.

Then I suggest you get you Google fixed. (Hint: His first name is Neil).

Also, You're confusing cause and effect here. It's a post hoc fallacy to assume that just because certain incidents occurred when the woman was a child, those incidents MUST have had an effect on her sexuality. Is there proof of this? No. Can studies be done showing that she has certain biological differences from most heterosexual women? Yes.

Again, it’s “chicken vs. egg”, "nature vs. nurture". Were those biological differences the effect or the cause of her homosexual behavior?

It's anything but a fallacy to state that those incidents had an impact on a woman's sexuality (i.e. Christine Sneeringer), because once those issues were addressed and the wounds from those healed, Sneeringer's lesbian inclinations went away. She stopped seeing being female as being weak, by bonding with godly women in a healthy way. She recovered from the hurt of her being molested. And, it's safe to say that she is learning still to form strong positive relationships with men. Once that cycle is complete, there's the strong possibility of her having a romantic and ultimately sexual (after marriage, of course  ;D ) reationship with a man.


In the NT. Hebrew in the old. But the greek or Hebrew words for "homosexual" don't appear either. The English one's aren't even used in the KJV.


In the NLT the only place it appears is in Lev. In the NIV the only place it appears is Cor.


In 1Corinthians 6:9 it implies "catamites" which means a pederastic relationship between two males (one much younger, one much older) This was common in Greek times among Greeks.

That line has been used repeatedly in a futile effort to condone homosexuality in a Christian framework. The simple fact is that no male-male sexual relationship has ever been condoned, per Scripture (regardless of the ages of the males involved). Hence, you have the English translation, "abusers of themselves with mankind", with "mankind" meaning adult males.


Leviticus 20:13 says "Don't lie with a man as one would lie with a woman" and this is odd since it doesn't include lesbianism.

Hardly odd!! These laws are addressed to the males, first. There were laws that said that if a man stole a sheep, he had to reimburse the victim with at least two sheep. That hardly meant that women could jack livestock and go unpunished. The simple assumption was that any laws addressed to the males applied to the females, unless there were gender-specific issues that needed particular attention and guidance.

Lost in all of this is the fundamental principle that ANY SEXUAL RELATIONSHIP, besides that of a man and woman, within the boundaries of MARRIAGE, was and is wrong. So, attempting to look for loopholes to excuse homosexual behavior simply doesn't cut it.

liberalismo

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Re: The Christian Response to Homosexuality
« Reply #29 on: February 19, 2009, 11:40:57 AM »
Well I'm done arguing with MCWAY. He said that he would Bash a 2 year old Girls head in if God told him to. He's a fanatical psychopath who doesn't warrant my responses.



http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=263451.msg3731780#msg3731780

MCWAY

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Re: The Christian Response to Homosexuality
« Reply #30 on: February 19, 2009, 11:47:29 AM »
Scientists have discovered that certain genetic traits exist almost exclusively in homosexuals opposed to heterosexuals. This can be proven. But if we're looking at a homosexual and know that they had some event occur in their life, how can we deduce that this event played any role in their homosexuality?


I don't know who Bennett or Sneeringer are, but I do know that homosexuals can't "leave" homosexuality anymore than heterosexuals can leave heterosexuality. I'm a heterosexual and it would be impossible for me to make a choice to become homosexual. Simply impossible. I can make a choice to do a lot of things, and actually go through with them, that I wouldn't otherwise do. But I could NEVER make myself attracted to another man. Nothing is there because I was born straight, not gay.

It appears that, like Nordic, you're using a floating definition of "homosexual" or "gay". As for your NEVER being able to make yourself attracted to another man, one well-placed traumatic event can make that attraction a reality. Do you think male prisoners go into the slammer, intially attracted to other men? I don't. But, if some of them get beat up or raped enough times, their minds can get bent to the point, when the attractions emerge.

That reminds me of a movie I saw years ago. You may have heard of it, "Higher Learning". If you've seen it you may recall the girl in that movie gets raped by a frat guy (actually, she initially consents to sex but, while actually doing, she tells him to stop because he doesn't have a rubber on him).

Fearful that the police won't believe her, because she did consent (and had been drinking), she feels isolated and vulnerable. The one person who befriends her just happens to be a lesbian. Next thing you know, her friendship becomes attraction and she has her first lesbian encounter.

My father was estranged when I was a child. Yet I'm totally heterosexual. You're finding some random event in someone's life and trying to apply it to something later in their life, but it just doesn't fit. Is there any proof that this persons estranged father (or the womans abuse) had any affect on their sexuality? Any proof?

I'm not finding some "random" events. The events are recurring, as I've mentioned earlier. And the proof is in the lives of the people themselves. Once again, you show your tendency to ignore real-world observations and actions, because they clash with certain scientific studies that support your view on the issue.



There have been plenty of studies done showing genetic characteristics of homosexuality. It's a very complex thing, and there is no 1 single thing that can influence homosexuality. It's a lot of things. Hormone levels during birth are one big influence.
Why can't doctors figure out who is gay and who isn't before they become adults? Doctors probably can to some accuracy, but who would support such an initiative?

If they could, they would have done so, long before now. They are studying people AFTER they have "come out" (likely having already engaged in homosexual activity).

Can homosexuality influence a persons genes? I don't see how. Genes are influenced by things like sexuality. The only things that can influence genes are traumatic life events like exposure to radiation or chemicals, etc. Genes are quite concrete and are rarely changed during life, especially not by someone's sexuality.


Can sexual contact permanently alter the brain? I don't know. Perhaps more likely if someone is a child. I'm not disputing the fact that molestation can have a role in later sexuality. Children brains are very plastic and can be changed quite easily, and thus some experience like this may have an influence on the persons sexuality.
But this would only mean that an environment factor (like child abuse) would simply make it "more likely" for someone to become homosexual as an adult, as their genes for such are already there. This is why not all kids who were molested are gay today.
(and why only a few % of gay people were molested) So in the end, Genes make the difference.

If genes made the difference, people like the ones mentioned would be gay, no matter what behavior changes were made or any aspects of their lives addressed. But, as seen in these people (and others like them) that simply isn't the case. Plus, you said it yourself, there are multiple factors involved and, as is often the case, those factors play their part in one's sexuality.






Joel_A

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Re: The Christian Response to Homosexuality
« Reply #31 on: February 19, 2009, 11:50:01 AM »
this thread is over. there is no arguing with whackjobs like mcway.

MCWAY

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Re: The Christian Response to Homosexuality
« Reply #32 on: February 19, 2009, 11:52:21 AM »
Well I'm done arguing with MCWAY. He said that he would Bash a 2 year old Girls head in if God told him to. He's a fanatical psychopath who doesn't warrant my responses.



http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=263451.msg3731780#msg3731780

And you would rip a baby's arms and legs off, crush its skull, and suck its brains out with a vacuum, if a scientist told you it's not actually a baby and it's still in the womb.

So, you're hardly in a position to call me a "fanantical psychopath".

Joel_A

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Re: The Christian Response to Homosexuality
« Reply #33 on: February 19, 2009, 12:30:17 PM »
And you would rip a baby's arms and legs off, crush its skull, and suck its brains out with a vacuum, if a scientist told you it's not actually a baby and it's still in the womb.

So, you're hardly in a position to call me a "fanantical psychopath".

the mother has to make that choice, no one else. not you, not him.
you on the other hand, will kill a child in your god's name.
how are you any different from the terrorists that flew the planes through the wtc towers? they were all doing it in their god's name.


loco

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Re: The Christian Response to Homosexuality
« Reply #34 on: February 19, 2009, 12:38:44 PM »
the mother has to make that choice, no one else. not you, not him.
you on the other hand, will kill a child in your god's name.
how are you any different from the terrorists that flew the planes through the wtc towers? they were all doing it in their god's name.



How about you and liberalismo stick to the subject of the thread and address MCWAY's posts intelligently instead of taking his words from another thread and dishonestly twisting his words to discredit him?  MCWAY is a good guy who like many other Christians actively helps others around him and around the world with his time, energy money and other resources, unlike many people on the Internet who do nothing but bitch and complain about everything.

How many Christians killed children in the name of God this week, last week, the week before? 

How many Christians today go out of their way to help other people, both children and adults, around them and around the world?

Joel_A

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Re: The Christian Response to Homosexuality
« Reply #35 on: February 19, 2009, 01:16:38 PM »
How about you and liberalismo stick to the subject of the thread and address MCWAY's posts intelligently instead of taking his words from another thread and dishonestly twisting his words to discredit him?  MCWAY is a good guy who like many other Christians actively helps others around him and around the world with his time, energy money and other resources, unlike many people on the Internet who do nothing but bitch and complain about everything.

How many Christians killed children in the name of God this week, last week, the week before? 

How many Christians today go out of their way to help other people, both children and adults, around them and around the world?

so when a point about killing a 2 yr old is brought up to my attention, i should just ignore it and "stick" to the thread? i believe it has a lot of significance. killing in the name of god is the most delusional thing any person can do. i dont care if the topic came up in the nutrition or steroids board.

and dont be so sure about christians not killing anyone, again you are being naive.

a lot of non-christian organizations are also out there, so your point is moot.

OzmO

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Re: The Christian Response to Homosexuality
« Reply #36 on: February 19, 2009, 01:29:43 PM »
Its not too far off really.

Let's kill children on God's orders because their parents committed evil acts that hey will surely duplicate when they grow up. So why not kill homosexuals for being gay too?  After all they are evil sinners and we are right in killing them in God's name. 




loco

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Re: The Christian Response to Homosexuality
« Reply #37 on: February 19, 2009, 01:32:10 PM »
How many Christians killed children in the name of God this week, last week, the week before? 

How many Christians today go out of their way to help other people, both children and adults, around them and around the world?

liberalismo

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Re: The Christian Response to Homosexuality
« Reply #38 on: February 19, 2009, 01:34:44 PM »
How about you and liberalismo stick to the subject of the thread and address MCWAY's posts intelligently instead of taking his words from another thread and dishonestly twisting his words to discredit him?  MCWAY is a good guy who like many other Christians actively helps others around him and around the world with his time, energy money and other resources, unlike many people on the Internet who do nothing but bitch and complain about everything.

How many Christians killed children in the name of God this week, last week, the week before? 

How many Christians today go out of their way to help other people, both children and adults, around them and around the world?



ANYONE who says that they would squash a 2 year old girls skull in because "Gold told them to" is PSYCHOTIC. Pure and simple.

Anyone who would DEFEND such a person and claim that such a psycho is a "good guy" is also suffering from major delusion.

Now I'll give you a chance to take this back, and if not then I see no point in debating with you either.

It's not about how many have done it, it's how many WOULD do it if asked by their God. Anyone willing to do such a horrific thing in the name of God isn't worth the keystrokes required to rebuke them (nor is anyone who defends them)

That's my final word on the 2 of you, unless you admit that anyone who says that they would do such a thing suffers mental illness and is not a "good guy".

loco

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Re: The Christian Response to Homosexuality
« Reply #39 on: February 19, 2009, 01:38:15 PM »


ANYONE who says that they would squash a 2 year old girls skull in because "Gold told them to" is PSYCHOTIC. Pure and simple.

Anyone who would DEFEND such a person and claim that such a psycho is a "good guy" is also suffering from major delusion.

Now I'll give you a chance to take this back, and if not then I see no point in debating with you either.

It's not about how many have done it, it's how many WOULD do it if asked by their God. Anyone willing to do such a horrific thing in the name of God isn't worth the keystrokes required to rebuke them (nor is anyone who defends them)

That's my final word on the 2 of you, unless you admit that anyone who says that they would do such a thing suffers mental illness and is not a "good guy".

You are dishonestly twisting MCWAY's words and now you are dishonestly twisting mine too.  Fine, don't debate me either.  I'll just cry myself to sleep tonight because liberalismo will no longer debate loco.   :'(

liberalismo

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Re: The Christian Response to Homosexuality
« Reply #40 on: February 19, 2009, 01:41:09 PM »
You are dishonestly twisting MCWAY's words and now you are dishonestly twisting mine too.  Fine, don't debate me either.  I'll just cry myself to sleep tonight because liberalismo will no longer debate loco.   :'(


TWISTING HIS WORDS? Here, I'll let his words speak for themselves.



Very Christian of you to mock the killing of women and children. 



So, McWay if God ordered you to bash the head in of a 2 year old girl would you do it?



I didn't mock the killing of the women and children. I listed the options that would be available, with regards to the remnants of Israel's defeated attackers.

As for your question, which I've answered once before, the answer is YES!!

Cue the outrage!!!

Butterbean

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Re: The Christian Response to Homosexuality
« Reply #41 on: February 19, 2009, 01:43:21 PM »
the mother has to make that choice, no one else. not you, not him.
you on the other hand, will kill a child in your god's name.



I don't mean to put words in your mouth but are you saying killing a child in the name of inconvenience is acceptable to you?






R

loco

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Re: The Christian Response to Homosexuality
« Reply #42 on: February 19, 2009, 01:45:34 PM »

TWISTING HIS WORDS? Here, I'll let his words speak for themselves.


I read it before.  I know what MCWAY means, and it's not what you are saying just to discredit him.

How many people around the world believe that the Bible is the word of God?

How many of those people killed children in the name of God this week, last week, the week before?  

Why are you still debating me?

Joel_A

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Re: The Christian Response to Homosexuality
« Reply #43 on: February 19, 2009, 01:49:09 PM »
I don't mean to put words in your mouth but are you saying killing a child in the name of inconvenience is acceptable to you?








i have my own views and reservations on abortion (and a lot of other things), but ultimately for me, it is none of my business.

some people define fetus and child the same, i don't. a lot of people don't. a 2 yr old is definitely a child, though.

loco

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Re: The Christian Response to Homosexuality
« Reply #44 on: February 19, 2009, 01:50:44 PM »
i have my own views and reservations on abortion (and a lot of other things), but ultimately for me, it is none of my business.

some people define fetus and child the same, i don't. a lot of people don't. a 2 yr old is definitely a child, though.

How convenient!

Joel_A

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Re: The Christian Response to Homosexuality
« Reply #45 on: February 19, 2009, 01:52:30 PM »
How convenient!

what's convenient? have i even told you how I actually feel about abortion? i am actually against it. but like i said, it is NONE OF MY BUSINESS!!!



you, on the other hand, just feel the need to stick your head in everyone's business. more power to you.

loco

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Re: The Christian Response to Homosexuality
« Reply #46 on: February 19, 2009, 01:53:56 PM »
what's convenient? have i even told you how I actually feel about abortion? i am actually against it. but like i said, it is NONE OF MY BUSINESS!!!

A 2 year old, but not a 1 year old, a 1 month old?

you, on the other hand, just feel the need to stick your head in everyone's business. more power to you.

Oh yeah?  And how am I doing that?

ATHEIST

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Re: The Christian Response to Homosexuality
« Reply #47 on: February 19, 2009, 02:00:36 PM »
this was a very good thread before the two of you got personal with the killing of babies. i understand you both are very pationate about your stance but your points could be made with out this particular reference?

funny i went to church last sunday and before the Pastors sermon he spoke about homosexuality. speaking about Leviticus 18:22. he stated homosexuality was a choice and an abomination. he talked about his niece who was "turned" to a homosexual lifestyle for 2 years by her coach, the family prayed with her and now she isnt a homosexual ::).

i dont agree that homosexuality is a choice or a sin. a good point was brought up earlier, as a heterosexual, i could not force myself to be gay. theres no way.

do you guys believe homosexuals will go to "hell"??

loco

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Re: The Christian Response to Homosexuality
« Reply #48 on: February 19, 2009, 02:03:36 PM »
you could go on splitting hairs but i don't want to. i don't care. 3 months, 2 years, what the hell does it matter?

Is a 8 month old fetus a baby, a human being, with rights?  How about a 23 week old fetus?

you being a conservative feels the need to outlaw abortion, don't you? that's what i meant. i shouldn't have to explain too much.

When did I say to you that I'm a conservative?  When did I say to you that I feel a need to outlaw abortion?  Do you even know what country I'm from?

Joel_A

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Re: The Christian Response to Homosexuality
« Reply #49 on: February 19, 2009, 02:03:44 PM »
A 2 year old, but not a 1 year old, a 1 month old?

why the hell do you care? it doesn't matter.

Quote
Oh yeah?  And how am I doing that?

you being a conservative probably would like to outlaw abortion. that is sticking you head in people's business. it has nothing to do with YOU!