The Christian Response to Homosexuality

[Dos Equis]

I was talking to a friend of mine the other day who has a gay son.  We worked together years ago and back then we had many discussions about him, society's response, our respective personal views, etc.  She had the single biggest impact on me and how I view the issue.  Every time we talked about her son more than ten years ago she would start crying.  We had lunch the other day and she started crying again when we were catching up on each other's families. 

The great thing about she and I is we both know precisely where we stand and we both respect each other.  She loves her son (as she should) and has joined support groups to help other parents in her situation.  Her father was a very well known figure and produced lots of sons and grandsons who have been very successful.  That made her son's lifestyle that much harder for both of them to deal with. 

As a Christian, I think we have an obligation to embrace everyone, regardless of their lifestyle choices.  I don't have a problem accepting someone without accepting their lifestyle choices. 

But what should the "Christian" response be?  Picture yourself sitting across the table from a woman who is in tears talking about her son, convinced that his preference is genetic.  What do you say?

Honestly, I don't think discussing what the Bible says about homosexuality would help and that's not my style anyway.  But as a Christian, how would you approach this?     

[Joel_A]

tell her ted haggard is also a christian.

[Straw Man]

Bum,

why was your friend crying?

people usually don't cry unless there is a big problem or something very emotional

is her son on drugs or messed up in any way?

[liberalismo]

Tell her to stop being a pansy and stop crying. So her son is gay, big whoopy do. It's not a bad thing. It's just something that happens, and it's not a choice. Homosexuals are people too, not less equal than you or I. And he can still provide her grandchildren via other methods.

[Hedgehog]

Maybe she should reconsider if she wants to be part of a religion that condemns homosexuals.
If she feels that her sons choice of life is ok with her own personal beliefs, then perhaps it is time to part from a religion that does not share the same values.

Somehow, she have to sit back and just think things through. What things actually matters to her et al.   

[Butterbean]

Beach, is the reason she is so upset because she doesn't know if he is a believer or not?  Even believers struggle with issues the bible states are sinful.   

She cannot force him to change his behavior or "worry" it into changing.  Maybe tell her to give this whole issue to God, maybe that can help her to stop worrying about it.   

[Straw Man]

But what should the "Christian" response be?  Picture yourself sitting across the table from a woman who is in tears talking about her son, convinced that his preference is genetic.  What do you say?
Honestly, I don't think discussing what the Bible says about homosexuality would help and that's not my style anyway.  But as a Christian, how would you approach this?     

Maybe she was crying out of frustration from having to deal with the obtuseness of her Christian friends

Bum, since this is only one "sin" in a whole  huge list of sins maybe you should "approach" this the same way you deal with all the other sinners in the world.  Why is this "sin" any different?  How do you approach your friends who commit adultery, have pre-marital sex, take Jesus's name in vain or even the worst sin of all which is not accepting JC as their personal saviour?


 What's your "approach" with those people?

[MCWAY]

I was talking to a friend of mine the other day who has a gay son.  We worked together years ago and back then we had many discussions about him, society's response, our respective personal views, etc.  She had the single biggest impact on me and how I view the issue.  Every time we talked about her son more than ten years ago she would start crying.  We had lunch the other day and she started crying again when we were catching up on each other's families. 

The great thing about she and I is we both know precisely where we stand and we both respect each other.  She loves her son (as she should) and has joined support groups to help other parents in her situation.  Her father was a very well known figure and produced lots of sons and grandsons who have been very successful.  That made her son's lifestyle that much harder for both of them to deal with. 

As a Christian, I think we have an obligation to embrace everyone, regardless of their lifestyle choices.  I don't have a problem accepting someone without accepting their lifestyle choices. 

But what should the "Christian" response be?  Picture yourself sitting across the table from a woman who is in tears talking about her son, convinced that his preference is genetic.  What do you say?

Honestly, I don't think discussing what the Bible says about homosexuality would help and that's not my style anyway.  But as a Christian, how would you approach this?     

Your response is to be her friend, to pray with (and for) her and her son. Above all, remind her of what you just said. Contrary to what some folk may think, loving her son DOES NOT require her acceptance of his homosexual behavior. As for "preference-is-genetic thing, you can point her to groups like Exodus International and let her hear from people, who once thought the same thing, but have left the homosexual lifestyle and are living in happy and healthy heterosexual relationships.

Nearly everyone who has done this has had one basic thing in common: They have all interacted with Christian friends, who loved and cared for them, but DID NOT compromise their standards about homosexuality being wrong.

Take this testimony for example (although, it's not from Exodus Int'l):



FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. (BP)--My heart pounded as the Sunday School teacher asked us to break into small groups and discuss how we might reach the homosexual community for Christ.

I often had wondered if everyone knew my secret. Now I would find out. In my group of four, Rachel spoke first: "I don't have any compassion for homosexuals."

My heart sank.

Mark chimed in, "I don't either, and I think AIDS is God's judgment against homosexuals."

These two seemed so smug, so arrogant. Anger burned inside me, and I vowed not to speak. But my friend, Robert, who knew I had been a homosexual, spoke next: "Christine, what do you think?" I shot him a look that could have killed. Then I took a deep breath and told Rachel and Mark my secret. The looks on their faces told me that they were sorry and felt embarrassed. What they didn't understand was that I, like many other homosexuals, didn't choose to have these feelings. I had grown up in a home where women were either objects of a man's lust or victims of his abuse…….. (Her father beat on her mother and Christine was molested by a male cousin, when she was as a pre/early teen).

For 18 months, I played on the women's softball team for Idlewild Baptist Church in Tampa, Fla (She emulated her older brother's love for athletics and shortened her name to "Chris", intentionally wishing to be recognized as a boy). During that time, I was drawn by the love my teammates had for one another and for me. It seemed so pure and so right. They knew I was different because of my foul language and unsportsmanlike conduct, but they never treated me like an outsider. Their attitude made me want what they had -- a relationship with Christ. I later found out that they were regularly praying for me. One teammate, Kelly, knew that I was a lesbian, but she never preached to me. She just cared for me and prayed for me. I became interested in spiritual things and asked Kelly to help me study the Bible. She agreed, and we met weekly to study the book of John.

One Sunday night in October, 1989, Kelly led me in the prayer of salvation as I knelt beside my bed in my dorm room. When I stood up, I knew that deep down something had changed. I knew that I wanted God more than my homosexuality. But becoming a Christian was only the beginning of my journey. It didn't instantly resolve my homosexual feelings. I broke up with my partner, but I continued to struggle with unwanted same-sex attractions.

Thankfully, I found out about a ministry that helps people overcome their homosexuality, and I began to attend a local support group. There, I discovered the root causes of my homosexual desires, including sexual abuse, gender confusion, a breakdown in the relationship with my same-sex parent, an abusive father and peer rejection.

I met strong, godly women in church who helped me to see that being feminine didn't mean being weak. I met men who treated me with dignity and respect. This freed me to embrace my gender and to stop rejecting God's design. I even started using my full name, Christine, because I no longer wanted to hide being a girl. My ideas about men and women were changed. I learned that being female is not a liability. And I began to identify outwardly with women, experimenting with wearing makeup and different clothes and using purses. I became different from the inside out.

Others noticed my progress and encouraged me. I'll never forget when Robert approached me in church and said, smiling, "Christine, this is the first time you don't look like a boy in a dress." Though his statement hadn't come out right, I knew that he had meant well, and it let me know I was making progress. The key to my healing was developing healthy same-sex friendships. As I did this, my sexual attractions for women naturally diminished because I found what I was looking for all along -- real love and connections with others.

With God's help and the support of caring people, I now walk in freedom from lesbianism. I know that a changed life is possible because I am a changed person.



www.bpnews.net/BPFirstPerson.asp?ID=28789

[liberalismo]

Homosexuality is GENETIC. You can't overcome it. Ask Ted Haggard.


Bagemihl, Bruce. 1998. Biological Exuberance: Animal Homosexuality and Natural Diversity. New York: St. Martin Press.

Kendler, K. S., L. M. Thornton, S. E. Gilman and R. C. Kessler, 2000. Sexual orientation in a U.S. national sample of twin and nontwin sibling pairs. American Journal of Psychiatry 157(11): 1843-1846.

http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20060701/fob1.asp

[MCWAY]

Homosexuality is GENETIC. You can't overcome it. Ask Ted Haggard.


Bagemihl, Bruce. 1998. Biological Exuberance: Animal Homosexuality and Natural Diversity. New York: St. Martin Press.

Kendler, K. S., L. M. Thornton, S. E. Gilman and R. C. Kessler, 2000. Sexual orientation in a U.S. national sample of twin and nontwin sibling pairs. American Journal of Psychiatry 157(11): 1843-1846.

http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20060701/fob1.asp

As the old saying goes, When the facts don't match the theory, change the facts. Ms. Sneeringer apparently missed this little study.    Of course, the root of her lesbianism had been identified: Lack of bonding with her mom, distrust of men (due to her witnessing her father's abuse), her being molested by her cousin.

But, again, why let facts get in the way of a good theory?

But, since you're such a big science buff.....

"Can You Change Your Sexual Orientation?" by Dr. N.E Whitehead, Ph.D.

http://www.mygenes.co.nz/Ch12.pdf

[MCWAY]

Beach Bum,

I don't know if you've ever heard of Pastor Stephen Bennett. But, he may be a great resource for your friend.


Stephen Bennett Ministries, Inc. (SBM) began back in 2000, simply as a Christian on-line support ministry to help men and women struggling with unwanted homosexuality (same-sex attraction). A national Christian organization interviewed Stephen and the Bennett's phone rang non-stop for almost three weeks after. Stephen and Irene saw the need for support for the men and women calling and the ministry of SBM began. SBM also provides biblical and practical support for parents, family members, friends, pastors, churches and entire denominations -- who have a loved one or more who identify as "gay" or lesbian.
 
Over the past eight years, as homosexuality has moved to the forefront of society as one of the most controversial moral issues of our day, SBM has grown into a full-time, worldwide evangelistic organization -- teaching, preaching and reaching millions with the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Founder and executive director Stephen Bennett, a former homosexual man now happily married to his wife Irene for over 15 years and the father of the couple's two precious children, has traveled the world sharing the Lord's story of love, hope, life and true change.

His ministry has a support group for parents with children in the same situation as your friend's son (www.TheParentsGroup.com)




Here's Bennett's testimony (from his site):

the fall of 1981, as an 18 year old aspiring artist with a dream, and a freshman at one of New York’s art schools, I reached one of the darkest periods in my life.  On a cold rainy night, far away from home I acted out on feelings I had throughout my entire childhood and teen years - I had my first homosexual encounter with another student.  After drinking alcohol at a school party and getting drunk for the first time ever, something I swore I never would do because of my family’s past, my life literally changed in one night.  I was plummeted into my deep dark world of homosexuality.  After only a few short months in art school, I suffered from a very severe depression, and dropped out of school and returned home to my family in Connecticut.


I found many of my old high schools friends had also “come out” as homosexuals and I became very active in the homosexual bar scene.  I lived for the night - my drinking became worse, I started using cocaine to help alleviate my mental turmoil, and found much love and acceptance by other men.  I had many numerous one night stands.  I felt I was finally “me”.  However, my drug addiction got worse to the point where I became a cocaine dealer just to support my habit - I lost my art business to drugs, as well as my dignity to a life based upon my perverse, sensual and decrepit lifestyle I couldn’t break free from. It was at this point many of my friends and one night encounters were getting “sick” and starting to die, and no one knew why.  This sickness was the beginning of the AIDS epidemic.

Things only grew worse and for a period of six years I declined morally, mentally and physically.  It was in the winter of 1987 after a 3 day cocaine and alcohol binge I cried out for help.  After being up all night and running out of cocaine, I looked in the mirror and was shocked at the reflection.  Due to my cocaine abuse, as well as years of bulimia, at almost six feet tall, I saw a 135 lb. living skeleton staring back at me and I just cried.  I ran down to a pay phone on the street corner and called for help. I admitted myself into a drug rehabilitation program, and began my recovery as an impatient for three months at a nearby facility.  It was at this point I began to see God working in my life.

Within a few short months I was alcohol and drug free, as well as free from my bulimia.  I had gained about 25 lbs. and was feeling great.  However, I still had a deep dark secret past hidden inside of me.  What was I to do with my homosexuality?  Deep down inside I knew it was wrong, yet I was just suppressing it.  After dating a few girls, I found myself one night back again at a local gay bar.  I didn’t drink or do drugs - but that night I met a man that I fell in love with, and began a three year live in relationship with him.  I seemed I had it all - my homosexual lifestyle and love, without the drugs, alcohol and bulimia, a great job, beautiful home, and great homosexual friends.  I attended an unsaved church faithfully every week - and felt I had it all.  But God wasn’t done with me yet - in fact, He had just started.

 My doorbell rang, and it was my friend Kathy, a friend for years who had seen me through the good and bad times of my life - and she had a Bible in her hand, and asked if she could come in.  She had told me she left her religious background and became a Christian.  She told me how Jesus changed her life, and how according to the Bible homosexuality was wrong - it was a sin and an abomination in God’s eyes - how according to the Bible I was not “born that way”, how it was circumstances, events and broken relationships from as early on as childhood, that led me down the homosexual path, and that Jesus Christ was offering me deliverance, restoration and most importantly, salvation - today.  I listened intently, and something inside of me told me she was right.  I told her I would take the Bible and she left.  That day, the Word of God cut right through me - I saw my homosexuality for the first time as God saw it - as sin.  Over the next year and a half, anytime something would happen between my partner and I sexually, I found myself praying for forgiveness to God I didn’t know, on my bathroom floor.  God was tugging at my heart strings and I knew it.......

Within three months after accepting Jesus Christ as my Savior, the homosexual behavior stopped, but not the same-sex attractions. Why? I prayed the prayer, I did everything, I left the man that I loved. What more could I do? Why wasn’t I “set free?”

I knew deep down I had to deal with a very painful issue I didn’t even want to go near – yet one I knew I had to confront in order to move on with my new life in Christ. For me, it was a very damaged, broken relationship with my father. 

For years, I only desired one thing:  my father's love.  I knew as Jesus had forgiven me for all of my sins - past, present and future – I now needed to extend that unconditional forgiveness to a man I deeply hated, yet one I truly loved.  After confronting him one day, pouring out my heart and really talking for the very first time in 28 years -- our broken relationship was incredibly reconciled.  Forgiveness was extended that day and the chains that bound me for so many years were unshackled. When my father and I hugged in his kitchen, and he told me that he loved me, I was finally set free.

Ever since that day, my father and I had a wonderful relationship.  I loved my dad and I know he loved me.  Those memories and years of hurt and inner pain were replaced by a real father and son love. We saw each other often, called each other on the phone and the Lord restored alI of the lost years.

On November 13, 2008, my father and I said our final goodbyes as he died from lung cancer. He was truly a wonderful man.

I realized for my entire life, I was vainly looking for the love, attention and affection of my father in the arms of other men.  Today, the search is over:  I had received the real thing: the love of my dad.

I must say, it is incredible how my journey has been.  Within that first year, never having been with a woman before, I was engaged to a beautiful Christian woman, Irene, who knew me as a homosexual, and was praying for me for years.  We were married on June 13, 1993. Never having been with a woman before, all I can say is our wedding night was one of the most beautiful, pure experiences I ever had.

Today, almost 16 years later -- and very happily married -- God has blessed us with two other miracles - my beautiful daughter Chloe Catherine, born July 23, 1998, and my son Blake Stephen, born on Chloe's birthday, July 23, 2000.  Chloe's middle name is in dedication to my friend Kathy who never gave up on me - a vessel of God, who He used to change my destiny forever.

Today life is wonderful - I am free, and it is all because of Jesus Christ and His love for me.  Jesus is the answer for all of our needs, no matter what they are.  You may be, know or live with a homosexual, a drug addict, or an alcoholic.  Understand - God loves the sinner - He just hates the sin. Christ is there to truly heal, to forgive, to restore and to make whole.

Remember, with God, nothing is impossible - believe me, I know.  I do believe in miracles - I believe in miracles, for I've seen a soul set free... for that lost soul was me.

http://www.igroops.com/igroops/sbm+webpages+5

[loco]

Beach Bum, STella, MCWAY, please correct me if I'm wrong.

The Bible does not say that being attracted to somebody of the same gender is a sin.  It only says that having sex with somebody of the same gender is a sin. 

If you applied Christ's teachings on adultery to this, then you could stretch this to saying that according to the Bible, looking at somebody of the same gender with lust is a sin in your heart.

If this is true, then it does not matter whether or not being attracted to somebody of the same gender is genetic.  It is not a sin.  It is a sin only if you look at somebody of the same gender with lust or if you have sex with somebody of the same gender.

You might ask why would God create people with a desire for somebody of the same gender when it is forbidden for them to have sex with somebody of the same gender? 

To that I would say that God created me with a desire to lust after and to have sex with most of the hot women I see, married or single.  But God forbids me to look at them with lust or to have sex with them.  Even though I have this desire to have sex with them, and even though I may have the opportunity to do so, I don't.  I don't because I call myself a Christian and I claim to believe that the Bible is the Word of God and I want to obey it, and because the Holy Spirit gives me both the desire and the power to obey, though I also have the choice to disobey.

You might say that at least I'm allowed by God to marry the woman I choose to and to have sex with her after I marry her, while homosexuals are not allowed by God to marry who they want to marry, another homosexual. 

To that I would say that married heterosexual couples don't have sex anyway...just kidding.  But seriously, most married men I know, and many women too, are not happy with their sex life.  Some of them wish they can divorce so that they can have all the casual sex they want to, but most of them are moral people and only contemplate it, but would never do that. 

So I'd say heterosexual Christians face similar, if not the same struggles and temptations as Christians who may be attracted to people of the same gender.

Anyway, those are my thoughts on homosexuality.  It's not much different than adultery, fornication, etc.

Please discuss.  I'd really like to know other Christians opinions on what I just wrote.  Thank you!

[Nordic Superman]

Homosexuality is heavily influenced by genetics. I'm sorry to say that one possible exception to the rule doesn't make the rule. Time to start dealing with facts!

[MCWAY]

Beach Bum, STella, MCWAY, please correct me if I'm wrong.

The Bible does not say that being attracted to somebody of the same gender is a sin.  It only says that having sex with somebody of the same gender is a sin. 

I don't think that's the case. Check Romans 1:26-28
For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
 
And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

And even as they did not like to retain God in [their] knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
 

If you applied Christ's teachings on adultery to this, then you could stretch this to saying that according to the Bible, looking at somebody of the same gender with lust is a sin in your heart.

If this is true, then it does not matter whether or not being attracted to somebody of the same gender is genetic.  It is not a sin.  It is a sin only if you look at somebody of the same gender with lust or if you have sex with somebody of the same gender.

You might ask why would God create people with a desire for somebody of the same gender when it is forbidden for them to have sex with somebody of the same gender? 

To that I would say that God created me with a desire to lust after and to have sex with most of the hot women I see, married or single.  But God forbids me to look at them with lust or to have sex with them.  Even though I have this desire to have sex with them, and even though I may have the opportunity to do so, I don't.  I don't because I call myself a Christian and I claim to believe that the Bible is the Word of God and I want to obey it, and because the Holy Spirit gives me both the desire and the power to obey, though I also have the choice to disobey.

You might say that at least I'm allowed by God to marry the woman I choose to and to have sex with her after I marry her, while homosexuals are not allowed by God to marry who they want to marry, another homosexual. 

To that I would say that married heterosexual couples don't have sex anyway...just kidding.  But seriously, most married men I know, and many women too, are not happy with their sex life.  Some of them wish they can divorce so that they can have all the casual sex they want to, but most of them are moral people and only contemplate it, but would never do that. 

So I'd say heterosexual Christians face similar, if not the same struggles and temptations as Christians who may be attracted to people of the same gender.

Anyway, those are my thoughts on homosexuality.  It's not much different than adultery, fornication, etc.

A passage often touted to make the case against homosexuality is 1. Cor 6:9-10. But, people often forget verse 11, which pretty much covers this last statement of yours.

And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God

[loco]

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 (New International Version)
 9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.


Thanks MCWAY!  I agree, but what exactly is a homosexual by Biblical definition?  I don't know.  Is it only a man who lusts after or has sex with another man? 

Is a man who is attracted to other men, yet no longer looks at men with lust or has sex with them considered a homosexual, by Biblical definition?  I really don't know.

I am attracted to all women, well most women, but that alone does not make me an adulterer or fornicator.

[MCWAY]

Homosexuality is heavily influenced by genetics. I'm sorry to say that one possible exception to the rule doesn't make the rule. Time to start dealing with facts!

We are dealing with facts, which is why that statement of yours is questionable, to say the least

Furthermore, there are far more than “one possible exception”, when it comes to this issue. Isn’t it funny that no one can seem to find these genetic causes to homosexuality, BEFORE the people involved start engaging in homosexual conduct?

What we have witnessed about it is the recurring pattern, involving ENVIRONMENT, as it relates to this issue. What’s so “genetic” about being molested by a family member, or having a strained relationship with a same-sex parent, or being scarred by watching your dad beat up your mom?


And, those who have left homosexuality once thought that they were born this way and could do nothing about it, as did Stephen Bennett, Christine Sneeringer, etc. Of course, they pleasantly found such not to be the case. In the latter’s case, as she began to form healthy bonds with women, her lesbian desires went bye-bye.

In the former’s case, a kind person sharing the Gospel with him, even as he lived with his gay lover, led to his redemption. He later patched up his relationship with his father, which (BIG SURPRISE) was at the root of his homosexuality. Now, with a wife of 15 years and two kids, he’s good to go.

Of course, someone will make a note to tell these people (and others like them) that they’re still gay, because of this “rule”.

[Nordic Superman]

No, they were never gay in the first place.

[MCWAY]

No, they were never gay in the first place.

I’m sorry!!! Did the definition of “gay” just change over the last 2 hours?

Bennett was doing the homo thing for at least six years and was LIVING WITH HIS MALE LOVER, when his friend, Kathy, started coming to his house to have Bible study with him.

Add to that, Bennett had never been romantically (or sexually) involved with a woman, until he met the one, who is now his wife.

must say, it is incredible how my journey has been. Within that first year, never having been with a woman before, I was engaged to a beautiful Christian woman, Irene, who knew me as a homosexual, and was praying for me for years.  We were married on June 13, 1993. Never having been with a woman before, all I can say is our wedding night was one of the most beautiful, pure experiences I ever had.


Then, there’s Ms. Sneeringer. Wasn’t she in a lesbian relationship for a number of YEARS, when her softball teammate (who knew she was gay), started to witness to her as well?

One teammate, Kelly, knew that I was a lesbian, but she never preached to me. She just cared for me and prayed for me. I became interested in spiritual things and asked Kelly to help me study the Bible. She agreed, and we met weekly to study the book of John.

One Sunday night in October, 1989, Kelly led me in the prayer of salvation as I knelt beside my bed in my dorm room. When I stood up, I knew that deep down something had changed. I knew that I wanted God more than my homosexuality. But becoming a Christian was only the beginning of my journey. It didn't instantly resolve my homosexual feelings. I broke up with my partner, but I continued to struggle with unwanted same-sex attractions.

Thankfully, I found out about a ministry that helps people overcome their homosexuality, and I began to attend a local support group. There, I discovered the root causes of my homosexual desires, including sexual abuse, gender confusion, a breakdown in the relationship with my same-sex parent, an abusive father and peer rejection.


It appears you’ve developed this floating definition of “gay”, in order to make your feeble claim stick. Last time I checked, if you’re a guy who’s spent several years doing the Brokeback with another guy, you’re gay. Same goes for ladies doing that L-word thing with other ladies.

They "came out" and said they were gay, and their actions mirror that statement. So, what was that new definition of "gay" again?

[liberalismo]

As the old saying goes, When the facts don't match the theory, change the facts. Ms. Sneeringer apparently missed this little study.    Of course, the root of her lesbianism had been identified: Lack of bonding with her mom, distrust of men (due to her witnessing her father's abuse), her being molested by her cousin.

But, again, why let facts get in the way of a good theory?

But, since you're such a big science buff.....

"Can You Change Your Sexual Orientation?" by Dr. N.E Whitehead, Ph.D.

http://www.mygenes.co.nz/Ch12.pdf

You're citing an entire book here. I can't even find any information on Dr. N.E Whitehead on google.


Also, You're confusing cause and effect here. It's a post hoc fallacy to assume that just because certain incidents occurred when the woman was a child, those incidents MUST have had an effect on her sexuality. Is there proof of this? No. Can studies be done showing that she has certain biological differences from most heterosexual women? Yes.

[liberalismo]

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 (New International Version)
 9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.


Thanks MCWAY!  I agree, but what exactly is a homosexual by Biblical definition?  I don't know.  Is it only a man who lusts after or has sex with another man? 

Is a man who is attracted to other men, yet no longer looks at men with lust or has sex with them considered a homosexual, by Biblical definition?  I really don't know.

I am attracted to all women, well most women, but that alone does not make me an adulterer or fornicator.

THe word "homosexual" doesn't appear in the original versions. These are added and interpreted translations.

[liberalismo]

We are dealing with facts, which is why that statement of yours is questionable, to say the least

Furthermore, there are far more than “one possible exception”, when it comes to this issue. Isn’t it funny that no one can seem to find these genetic causes to homosexuality, BEFORE the people involved start engaging in homosexual conduct?

What we have witnessed about it is the recurring pattern, involving ENVIRONMENT, as it relates to this issue. What’s so “genetic” about being molested by a family member, or having a strained relationship with a same-sex parent, or being scarred by watching your dad beat up your mom?


And, those who have left homosexuality once thought that they were born this way and could do nothing about it, as did Stephen Bennett, Christine Sneeringer, etc. Of course, they pleasantly found such not to be the case. In the latter’s case, as she began to form healthy bonds with women, her lesbian desires went bye-bye.

In the former’s case, a kind person sharing the Gospel with him, even as he lived with his gay lover, led to his redemption. He later patched up his relationship with his father, which (BIG SURPRISE) was at the root of his homosexuality. Now, with a wife of 15 years and two kids, he’s good to go.

Of course, someone will make a note to tell these people (and others like them) that they’re still gay, because of this “rule”.

Let's look at it like this: Do all people who are molested when they are kids become homosexuals?
Do all people with bad relationships with one parent become homosexuals?
Do all people with dysfunctional families become homosexuals?


I've known a lot of homosexuals in my life and if you ask them if they "choose" to be gay over straight, ALL of them would say it was NOT a choice.

Most gays know that they are gay from the time they hit puberty! When most others are attracted to the opposite sex, they are automatically attracted to the same sex. NO CHOICE is involved in these automatic feelings.



The ONLY reason people claim that homosexuality is not genetic or that it is a choice is because it would mean that their GOD made them that way, and God made people into sinners and freewill had nothing to do with it.

[loco]

THe word "homosexual" doesn't appear in the original versions. These are added and interpreted translations.

"homosexual" is an English word.  The original version was in Greek.

[MCWAY]

Let's look at it like this: Do all people who are molested when they are kids become homosexuals?
Do all people with bad relationships with one parent become homosexuals?
Do all people with dysfunctional families become homosexuals?

Nope!! Of course, nobody claimed that such was the case. But, in the examples I mentioned, these issues played a major role in those people becoming homosexuals. Once those issues were addressed and the wounds healed, the homosexual desires disappeared, as stated by the men and women, who went through this life journey.

I've known a lot of homosexuals in my life and if you ask them if they "choose" to be gay over straight, ALL of them would say it was NOT a choice.

Bennett and Sneeringer said the same thing. But that didn't stop them from leaving homosexuality.

Most gays know that they are gay from the time they hit puberty! When most others are attracted to the opposite sex, they are automatically attracted to the same sex. NO CHOICE is involved in these automatic feelings.

Again, the same thing happened with Bennett and Sneeringer. Nothing indicates that such was genetic. As mentioned earlier, there was phyiscal/emotional trauma involved. In Stephen Bennett's case, it was the estranged relationship with his father. In Christine's case, it was watching her father abuse her mother, the subsequent divorce of her parents, and her being molested by her male cousin.

The ONLY reason people claim that homosexuality is not genetic or that it is a choice is because it would mean that their GOD made them that way, and God made people into sinners and freewill had nothing to do with it.

I beg to differ! People claim that homosexuality is not genetic is because no genetic cause has been found to be the driving force behind it. Otherwise, it would be detected before these folks "came out", not after. It's another "chicken vs. egg" argument. Do the genetic factors cause the homosexuality or does the homosexuality cause the genetic factors? (It'swell-documented that sexual contact can alter brain patterns, which would explain why a number of homosexuals became such after being molested as kids.

"homosexual" is an English word.  The original version was in Greek.

The KJV uses the terms "effiminate" and "abusers of themselves with mankind", the context of which clearly points to homosexual behavior, as heterosexual misconduct (adultery and fornication) is clearly spelled out in that text.

Another common pattern is that, of those who left the homosexual lifestyle due in part to their faith in God, most (if not all) claim they did so, because someone befriended them and shared with them the love of Jesus Christ. And, while their Christian friends loved and cared for them, they made it abundantly clear to folks like Bennett and Sneeringer that they DID NOT condone their homosexual lifestyle, nor see it in any other vein than being sinful.

But, it goes back to 1 Cor. 6:11, And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. (NIV, just for you, Loco  )

[liberalismo]

"homosexual" is an English word.  The original version was in Greek.

In the NT. Hebrew in the old. But the greek or Hebrew words for "homosexual" don't appear either. The English one's aren't even used in the KJV.


In the NLT the only place it appears is in Lev. In the NIV the only place it appears is Cor.


In 1Corinthians 6:9 it implies "catamites" which means a pederastic relationship between two males (one much younger, one much older) This was common in Greek times among Greeks.

Leviticus 20:13 says "Don't lie with a man as one would lie with a woman" and this is odd since it doesn't include lesbianism.

[loco]

In the NT. Hebrew in the old. But the greek or Hebrew words for "homosexual" don't appear either. The English one's aren't even used in the KJV.

Right, but the verse that MCWAY and I are talking about is in the NT.

In the NLT the only place it appears is in Lev. In the NIV the only place it appears is Cor.


In 1Corinthians 6:9 it implies "catamites" which means a pederastic relationship between two males (one much younger, one much older) This was common in Greek times among Greeks.

Leviticus 20:13 says "Don't lie with a man as one would lie with a woman" and this is odd since it doesn't include lesbianism.

Not sure what your point is.  The fact is that

1. The Bible clearly condemns homosexuality, both in the OT and the NT, which is important to those to believe that the Bible is the Word of God.

2. There is yet no proof that homosexuality is genetic.  But as of right now, I don't see how this makes any difference to Christians.  See my long post above.