Author Topic: Ark. pastors debate merits of allowing hidden guns  (Read 846 times)

Dos Equis

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Ark. pastors debate merits of allowing hidden guns
« on: February 14, 2009, 06:30:15 PM »
I don't know why I thought this was funny.  Sounds a little crazy. 

Ark. pastors debate merits of allowing hidden guns

By DANIEL SHEA – 14 hours ago

LITTLE ROCK, Ark. (AP) — Arkansas pastors may soon have to worry about more than their flocks' spiritual battles. After a number of shootings in churches nationwide, should congregants be allowed to bring concealed weapons into their sanctuaries?

Under current Arkansas law, holders of concealed weapons permits can take their guns anywhere they want except bars and houses of worship. A bill in the state Senate would let churches decide for themselves whether weapons should be allowed.

"I believe it would disturb the sanctity and tranquility of church" said Pastor John Phillips, a bill opponent who was shot twice in the back as he finished a service 23 years ago. If a church opts out, "Do you want ushers to stop you at the door and frisk you?"

The bill's supporters say the issue isn't gun rights but a constitutionally protected right for churches to set their own rules. Opponents say worshippers should be allowed to pray without worrying whether the person next to them is armed.

Nathan Petty, a pastor at Beech Grove Baptist Church in Fordyce, has presented to legislators a petition from 40 preachers who support the bill.

"It's not about gun rights, it's about church rights," Petty said. "Is it right for the state to make that decision for the church?"

Phillips said there could have been carnage at his Ward Chapel Church in Little Rock if someone else had been armed when he was attacked by a parishioner's relative for a still-unknown reason.

"People are not going to react the way they think they're going to react in the heat of the moment. It was utter chaos when I was shot," said Phillips, who still carries one of the bullets in his body.

The bill, by Republican Rep. Beverly Pyle, passed the House on Wednesday and is pending before a Senate committee.

Grant Exton, the executive director of the Arkansas Concealed Carry Association, said allowing concealed weapons would not make churches more likely to have volatile situations — but adds that that is not his point.

"It's a problem of (the government) telling churches what to do in an area of moral issue, where that should be none of their business," Exton said. Of 48 states that allow concealed carry, 42 let churches make the decision, Exton said.

"We have the government in an area that it shouldn't be," he said.

If the current law is not changed, it is subject to a challenge on constitutional grounds, said John DiPippa, the interim dean at the University of Arkansas at Little Rock School of Law.

A law prohibiting guns from places of worship is similar to a law requiring that churches permit guns, because the government is forcing a decision on a religious institution based on moral grounds, he said. "On the religious argument, you could make the same claim in both directions."

Religious leaders have a responsibility to protect their congregations both spiritually and physically, said Mark DeYmaz, a pastor at Mosaic Church in Little Rock. He opposes allowing guns in churches but said each religious establishment must decide for itself.

"A good shepherd would not allow a wolf near his flock," said DeYmaz, whose church is located in one of the city's tougher areas.

After a man in Colorado went on a shooting spree at two religious facilities in 2007, DeYmaz' community established "the Mosaic Watchmen," a group of ushers trained in security measures but designed to uphold the church's image as a sacred place — not an armed church.

"We're there to be a light in the community, and we don't like the image that would give us," DeYmaz said.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5igRWLptkNySQGAD8CdTWHsndg7AgD96BAO1O0

tonymctones

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Re: Ark. pastors debate merits of allowing hidden guns
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2009, 06:32:19 PM »
I havent heard of any church shootings ???


Dos Equis

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Re: Ark. pastors debate merits of allowing hidden guns
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2009, 06:43:48 PM »
I doubt there are enough to warrant any kind of legislative efforts, but I can see letting the churches decide for themselves. 

But still, who the heck brings a gun to church?? 

Straw Man

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Re: Ark. pastors debate merits of allowing hidden guns
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2009, 08:03:28 PM »
I thought there were a few church shootings in the last couple of years

does it really matter if you're at a church or a mall or a car wash?


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Re: Ark. pastors debate merits of allowing hidden guns
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2009, 11:58:54 PM »
everyone carries to church around here.  You want to leave it in your truck?

Dos Equis

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Re: Ark. pastors debate merits of allowing hidden guns
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2009, 11:21:24 AM »
In what kind of whacked community does "everyone" bring a gun to church?  I've heard of intense church board meetings and uncomfortable sermons, but a church full of gun-toting members?  ???  Are the Sunday School teachers packing too?

Dos Equis

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Re: Ark. pastors debate merits of allowing hidden guns
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2009, 12:16:05 PM »
Speaking of guns in church. . . .  Sad story.

Suspect charged in pastor's shooting death
     
(CNN) -- A 27-year-old man has been charged with first-degree murder in the shooting of a pastor at a church in Maryville, Illinois, authorities said Monday.

Terry J. Sedlacek was charged with fatally shooting Fred Winters, the pastor of First Baptist Church. Winters was shot during Sunday morning services.

Prosecutors also charged Sedlacek with two counts of aggravated battery for the alleged stabbings of parishioners Terry Bullard and Keith Melton. The injuries are not life-threatening, said Illinois state police spokesman Ralph Timmins.

The gunman was also seriously wounded, Timmins said.

The church, meanwhile, urged its members to remember Winter's family, the wounded parishioners and the assailant and his family.

"Please pray for Dr. Winter's family, our two brave members who were injured when they stopped the assailant, for the assailant himself and his family, and for our church members as they deal with this tragic loss," the church said in a statement on its Web site.

Winters and the gunman apparently exchanged words before the 27-year-old man fired four shots, hitting the pastor's Bible and then the pastor, said Illinois State Police Director Larry Trent.

"The only thing we know is that the suspect said something to the pastor and the pastor said something back to him. We don't know what that was," Trent told reporters Sunday afternoon. "It was almost as if the pastor may have recognized him, but we're not sure about that at all."

The gunman's .45-caliber pistol jammed after he shot Winters, Trent said. The man then pulled out a knife before being tackled by some of the approximately 150 worshippers attending the service in southern Illinois, near St. Louis, Missouri. 

Earlier reports from authorities said the man may have turned the knife on himself, but Trent said that was not confirmed.

"When he was tackled by two of the members, we don't know whether he fell on the knife, injuring himself at the time, or whether [his injury] was self-inflicted during the struggle," Trent said.

Two of those who went after the attacker suffered non-life-threatening injuries, while the suspect's injuries are "very serious," Illinois state police spokesman Ralph Timmins said.  Watch police describe "heroic action" of parishioners »

Witness Claudia Bohley told CNN affiliate KSDK she was in the church's foyer waiting for the service to begin when she heard "pop, pop, pop. ... We just couldn't imagine what had happened."

She said she ran into the sanctuary and saw what looked like paper scattered on the pulpit. She said she was later told that a bullet hit Winters' Bible.

"It was like confetti. It went everywhere," she said. "People were down on their knees and on the floor, screaming and praying."

She described Winters -- who is pictured on the church's Web site along with his wife and two children -- as "such a pleasant pastor."

Trent said police were still trying to determine a motive in the shooting, and that church members did not recognize the gunman.

St. Louis University Hospital spokeswoman Laura Keller told CNN three males, including the suspect, were brought to the hospital. One was dead on arrival, she said. She said the second was in an operating room and the third was the suspect, whose condition was not immediately available.

Trent said one of two wounded parishioners was treated and released.

Trent called the actions of the two wounded parishioners "heroic," saying they took quick action when others "were understandably stuck to their seats."

A posting on the church's Web site said a prayer vigil would be held at 6 p.m. at Metro Community Church in Edwardsville, Illinois, about six miles north of Maryville.

First Baptist Church has about 1,000 members, KSDK reported. The church holds four Sunday services.

Timmins said many of the people attending the service remained for hours afterward, as police were conducting interviews.

The Illinois shooting is believed to be the nation's first in a church since July, when a 58-year-old man opened fire in a Knoxville, Tennessee, church during a children's play. Two people were killed and six wounded in that shooting at Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church.

In the Tennessee case, Jim Adkisson told police he targeted the church because of its "liberal teachings," according to court papers. Adkisson pleaded guilty last month in a deal that allowed him to avoid the death penalty and will face life in prison without parole, court officials said.

Police said the Maryville congregation had a plan in place, including a protocol for lockdown, in the event of an incident such as Sunday's attack.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/03/09/church.shooting/index.html

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Re: Ark. pastors debate merits of allowing hidden guns
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2009, 12:35:07 PM »
In what kind of whacked community does "everyone" bring a gun to church? 

*raises hand*

Dos Equis

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Re: Ark. pastors debate merits of allowing hidden guns
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2010, 12:42:14 PM »
Crazy. 

Jindal Agrees to Allow Concealed Guns in Church
Thursday, 08 Jul 2010     

BATON ROUGE, La. - Gov. Bobby Jindal has agreed to allow concealed handguns inside Louisiana's churches.

Churches, synagogues and mosques choosing to allow concealed carry will have to inform their congregations of the decision. Anyone wishing to carry a concealed weapon in a church will have to take an extra eight hours of tactical training each year.

Jindal signed the bill by Republican Rep. Henry Burns on Tuesday.

The new law does not apply to churches on school property.

Supporters of the measure said it can be a deterrent against criminal activity in church and will give an option to ministers and pastors to incorporate concealed handguns into their security plans.

Opponents argued it's inappropriate to have concealed handguns in church.

http://www.newsmax.com/Politics/Bobby-Jindal-concealed-handguns/2010/07/08/id/364117

loco

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Re: Ark. pastors debate merits of allowing hidden guns
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2010, 12:48:50 PM »
 :)

Dos Equis

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