Author Topic: chimp attack-chimp killed-im sickened  (Read 9402 times)

NaturalWonder83

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chimp attack-chimp killed-im sickened
« on: February 17, 2009, 05:44:12 AM »
Nothing sickens me more than animal cruelty-literally brings tears to my eyes
Today I read about the chimp that was killed in my city

Could there not have been a better way of subduing him? Or am I being ignorant?

http://news.aol.com/article/pet-chimp-shot-after-mauling-woman/345410

Sandra Herold, the owner of the 15-year-old chimp named Travis, wrestled with the animal after it inexplicably attacked her friend Monday when the visitor got out of her car in front of Herold's home.

She retrieved a large butcher knife and stabbed her longtime pet numerous times in an effort to save her friend, who was really being brutally attacked," said Stamford police Capt. Richard Conklin.
The injured woman suffered facial injuries and blood loss. She was hospitalized late Monday in very serious condition at Stamford Hospital, police said. Her identity was not immediately released.
"There was no provocation that we know of. One thing that we're looking into is that we understand the chimpanzee has Lyme disease and has been ill from that, so maybe from the medications he was out of sorts. We really don't know," Conklin said.
After the initial attack, Travis ran away and started roaming Herold's property until police arrived, setting up security so medics could reach the critically injured woman, Conklin said.
But the chimpanzee returned and went after several of the officers, who retreated into their cars, Conklin said. Travis knocked the mirror off a cruiser before opening its door and starting to get in, trapping the officer

That officer shot the chimpanzee several times, Conklin said.
The wounded chimpanzee fled the scene, but Conklin said police were able to follow the trail of his blood: down the driveway, into the open door of the home, through the house and to his living quarters, where he had retreated and died of his wounds.
Herold and two officers also received minor injuries, police said.
A message seeking comment was left Monday night at Herold's home.
The chimpanzee was well-known around Stamford because he rode around in trucks belonging to the towing company operated by his owners.
Police have dealt with him in the past, including an incident in 2003 when he escaped from his owners' vehicle in downtown Stamford for two hours. Officers used cookies, macadamia treats and ice cream in an attempt to lure him, but subdued him only after he became too tired to resist.
At the time of the 2003 incident, police said the Herolds told them the chimpanzee was toilet trained, dressed himself, took his own bath, ate at the table and drank wine from a stemmed glass. He also brushed his teeth using a Water Pik, logged onto the computer to look at pictures, and watched television using the remote control, police said.
When he was younger, Travis appeared on TV commercials for Old Navy and Coca-Cola, made an appearance on the "Maury Povich Show" and took part in a television pilot, according to a 2003 story in The Advocate newspaper of Stamford.
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Vet

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Re: chimp attack-chimp killed-im sickened
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2009, 10:44:59 AM »
Honestly, this entire story reeks of hyperbole.   

First off, if thats the chimp in the picture, he's morbidly obese----like the equivilant of a 800 lb person or more.  From his appearance, lyme disease may have been the least of his concerns health wise. 

That said, I've faced chimps trying to attack.  They can hands down be one of the most brutal, aggressive, damaging animals I've ever encountered in captivity.   The amount of damage they will dish out to each other and the amount they can take is absolutely mind boggling.   If you cannot immobilize them with drugs, killing them may be the only alternative in an out of control situation.   The knife probably didn't do anything but make the attack worse by pissing him off.   Blunt trauma or water from a hose may have been more effective.   So at this point, you have a rampaging, injured, chimp.  Again, shooting him may have been the only alternative.

This was a matureing male (yes, 15 for a chimp is still quite young--they can and most definately will act like teenagers).  The attack itself isn't a surprise.  Chimps go for 3 targets when they attack---the face (particularly the lips and the eyes), the fingers (I've seen a mature male with all of his fingers on one hand chewed off by a group of females) and the genitalia (I've watched a mature male drag an immature male who was acting up around the yard by his scrotum, then turn him over, anally rape him, and drag him around some more while beating the crap out of him the entire time).   This isn't unusual behavior at all for that species.   The typical person off the street is spoiled with chimps because of the media image that is catered with them as our "closest relatives".  They are very intelligent animals who are just as brutal as humans are---they deserve to be respected, not allowed free reign like this one apparently was. 

The ChemistV2

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Re: chimp attack-chimp killed-im sickened
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2009, 12:28:58 PM »
Honestly, this entire story reeks of hyperbole.   

First off, if thats the chimp in the picture, he's morbidly obese----like the equivilant of a 800 lb person or more.  From his appearance, lyme disease may have been the least of his concerns health wise. 

That said, I've faced chimps trying to attack.  They can hands down be one of the most brutal, aggressive, damaging animals I've ever encountered in captivity.   The amount of damage they will dish out to each other and the amount they can take is absolutely mind boggling.   If you cannot immobilize them with drugs, killing them may be the only alternative in an out of control situation.   The knife probably didn't do anything but make the attack worse by pissing him off.   Blunt trauma or water from a hose may have been more effective.   So at this point, you have a rampaging, injured, chimp.  Again, shooting him may have been the only alternative.

This was a matureing male (yes, 15 for a chimp is still quite young--they can and most definately will act like teenagers).  The attack itself isn't a surprise.  Chimps go for 3 targets when they attack---the face (particularly the lips and the eyes), the fingers (I've seen a mature male with all of his fingers on one hand chewed off by a group of females) and the genitalia (I've watched a mature male drag an immature male who was acting up around the yard by his scrotum, then turn him over, anally rape him, and drag him around some more while beating the crap out of him the entire time).   This isn't unusual behavior at all for that species.   The typical person off the street is spoiled with chimps because of the media image that is catered with them as our "closest relatives".  They are very intelligent animals who are just as brutal as humans are---they deserve to be respected, not allowed free reign like this one apparently was. 
You're right, of course. The details from the attack said the chimp tore out her eyes, tore off her nose and pulled her jaw off. The 911 call is frightening. But for years the chimp seemed pretty docile except where he bit some guy on the hand several years back. Apparently this woman took baths with the chimp, slept with it, gave it wine.

Vet

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Re: chimp attack-chimp killed-im sickened
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2009, 07:58:35 PM »
You're right, of course. The details from the attack said the chimp tore out her eyes, tore off her nose and pulled her jaw off. The 911 call is frightening. But for years the chimp seemed pretty docile except where he bit some guy on the hand several years back. Apparently this woman took baths with the chimp, slept with it, gave it wine.

Honestly, the more that I hear about what this woman did with this chimp, the more I think she should not only be brought up on charges for the attack, she should be brought up on animal cruelty charges for the physical conditions that she allowed that chimp to live in.  She didn't "love" him, she was trying to kill him.   

NaturalWonder83

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Re: chimp attack-chimp killed-im sickened
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2009, 08:04:46 PM »
thanks for the good posts vet

what do u mean she was trying to kill him?
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smoothasf

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Re: chimp attack-chimp killed-im sickened
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2009, 01:49:44 AM »
id have cut his throat within the first 8 seconds of the attack, 3 times stronger than a man

newmom

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Re: chimp attack-chimp killed-im sickened
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2009, 04:59:36 AM »
seeing how this story is in Connecticut..its all over the news here. Now attorney general Richard Blumenthal wants to ban all exotic animals, it is now but you can get a permit. Now my questions is, there are dog attacks all the time and noone bans them..the whole time this woman had this chimp, no reports of any similar incidents. On the other hand, not sure if I would want a chimp that big or at all living next door to me.

newmom

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Re: chimp attack-chimp killed-im sickened
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2009, 05:01:29 AM »
I believe I heard that the owner did give the chimp vicoden..but again I believe that is what I heard

Princess L

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Re: chimp attack-chimp killed-im sickened
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2009, 10:51:12 AM »
Honestly, the more that I hear about what this woman did with this chimp, the more I think she should not only be brought up on charges for the attack, she should be brought up on animal cruelty charges for the physical conditions that she allowed that chimp to live in.  She didn't "love" him, she was trying to kill him.   

Vet, can you elaborate?  What do you mean "She didn't "love" him, she was trying to kill him."?


I believe I heard that the owner did give the chimp vicoden..but again I believe that is what I heard

I heard it was Xanax  ??? and based on the human model, the chimps reaction was not that out of the ordinary  ???
:

Princess L

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Re: chimp attack-chimp killed-im sickened
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2009, 07:33:58 AM »
Quote

I heard it was Xanax  ??? and based on the human model, the chimps reaction was not that out of the ordinary  ???


I just saw a video of the owner stating she NEVER gave him anything  :-\
:

Vet

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Re: chimp attack-chimp killed-im sickened
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2009, 12:06:37 PM »
Banning exotic pets will not work.  I've worked with too many of the breeders.... they will just go underground.   And I will say as an exotic pet owner, there is no way in hell you are taking my animals away.  I'd fight that kind of a state wide ban tooth and nail.   Politicians are absolutely stupid if they think banning something like that will work.  What they'll do is create a drain on the states resources by overtaxing animal control officers (this has happened in numerous cities that have banned exotic pets).  How do you define exotic pets?  Hamsters and mice which are in all essence domesticated?  Reptiles?  Birds that were hand raised and imprinted on humans so that they will never be a true bird? llamas and camels which are work animals in other countries?  Its a stupid, stupid move to try to do something like that.     


As far as my comments above go.... look at the pictures of that chimpanzee.  He was morbidly obese.  He had visible skin problems what appears to be thinning hair as a teenager.  Somewhere someone put it in that owners head that Xanax was something that could be given to a chimp (if its a veterinarian, I hope their license goes under review by the state board).  The severe degree of obesity alone would result in any AZA accredited zoo in this country coming under the microscope with allagations of "abuse" for an animal that age, yet this woman did it in the name of love?  Give me a break.  She was your stereotypical psychoasajunebugfemaleno numanprimate owner.  I apologize to the women on this board who fit this stereotype, but the reality of it is that many veterinarians who used to see nonhumanprimates will no longer provide care to those animals because the owners are crazy as hell---I'm one of those veterinarians.  She didn't want a "pet" she was trying to replace her lost child with this animal.  The sad part is she got by with it, with little regard for the chimpanzees health.  I find it very hard to believe that this was the animals "first" incident too.  He was a chimpanzee.  I'm willing to bet he misbehaved at times.  Why else would he be getting Xanax (no matter how stupid it was)?  It wouldn't surprise me that it finally comes out she kept him gorked out of his mind on various drugs to manage him.   

Eyeball Chambers

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Re: chimp attack-chimp killed-im sickened
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2009, 09:23:13 PM »
(I've watched a mature male drag an immature male who was acting up around the yard by his scrotum, then turn him over, anally rape him, and drag him around some more while beating the crap out of him the entire time)

 :o

You've got to be kidding?
S

Butterbean

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Re: chimp attack-chimp killed-im sickened
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2009, 06:11:36 AM »
Some Injuries Traumatize Doctors Too

AOL
(Feb. 24) - The injuries to the woman mauled by a chimpanzee earlier this month were so horrific that the doctors who treated her are now being offered counseling by their hospital, ABC News reported.

The case of Charla Nash, 55, of Stamford, Conn., is just the most recent, and one of the most public, examples of how treating traumatic injuries can stagger veteran professionals.




Dr. Vanessa Brown, one of the physicians who treated Nash at the Stamford Hospital's emergency room, told ABC News that it's difficult to describe what the scene was like to people who weren't in the room that day. She was one of those who accepted the hospital's offer of counseling.

"For me, you think if you see and see it, it gets easier," Brown told the network, of the case she described as one of the worst in her career. "But it's just hard. It's always hard. It's hard to see somebody that's that sick."

One doctor likened emergency rooms to battlefield hospitals.

"At a trauma center like mine, we've seen just about anything," Dr. Alex Rosenau, of the Lehigh Valley Health Network in Allentown, Pa., told ABC. "But, just like soldiers on the battlefield, emergency staff is sometimes exposed to things even beyond what they normally see."

Nash was mauled by a chimpanzee owned by a close friend, Sandra Herold. Herold stabbed her beloved pet with a butcher knife to try and save her friend. Police eventually shot and killed the animal. On Herold's 911 call, she said she though the chimpanzee had killed Nash, reported the Associated Press.
Nash lived, but suffered what doctors called "life-changing" injuries
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Migs

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Re: chimp attack-chimp killed-im sickened
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2009, 07:04:44 PM »
I agree with what the officer did.

BigMenace

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Re: chimp attack-chimp killed-im sickened
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2009, 03:54:38 PM »
The report said the women let the Chimp Drink Wine. Should a chimp be giving alcohol? Especially one that is on medications? I mean come on there livers aren't made to filter that shit. Adult human males go into Liver failure with alcohol so why would anyone giv eit to an animal?

Vet

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Re: chimp attack-chimp killed-im sickened
« Reply #15 on: March 07, 2009, 02:47:51 AM »
The report said the women let the Chimp Drink Wine. Should a chimp be giving alcohol? Especially one that is on medications? I mean come on there livers aren't made to filter that shit. Adult human males go into Liver failure with alcohol so why would anyone giv eit to an animal?

Its another reason that owner should be charged with animal abuse for what she did to that chimp-----alcohol has long been used as a "laymans" means of controlling nonhuman primates.  They will metabolize ethanol the same way a human will-----they'll get drunk, then they'll pass out.   Liver effects will be essentially the same as a humans. 

MuscleMcMannus

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Re: chimp attack-chimp killed-im sickened
« Reply #16 on: March 07, 2009, 03:18:22 AM »
How do you guys know the extent of this lady's injuries?  None of the repots I came across divulged any of the details?  the thing ripped her eyes out?   :o  Fuck that's insane. 

Also I'd like to know when the hell you (vet) ever saw footage or real life witnessing of another chimp being pulled around by his scrotum and anally raped by another chimp.  As crazy as these chimps are this just sounds like more urban legend. 

Butterbean

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Re: chimp attack-chimp killed-im sickened
« Reply #17 on: March 07, 2009, 09:04:37 AM »
How do you guys know the extent of this lady's injuries?  None of the repots I came across divulged any of the details?  the thing ripped her eyes out?   :o  Fuck that's insane. 


:(

Woman attacked by chimp medical update
WJW-TV
CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The Connecticut woman attacked by a 200 pound chimp last month is still listed in critical condition at the Cleveland Clinic.

Wednesday, the clinic released a statement from Nash's family thanking the public for its support and outlining the woman's injuries.

"Ms. Charla Nash remains in critical condition at the Cleveland Clinic. The family and hospital are grateful to those across the nation who have been concerned about her recovery. The family wishes to maintain her privacy, but in light of the level of public support and concern, also want to convey the extent of her injuries."

Nash suffered extensive soft tissue injuries to her face. In the attack, she lost her nose, upper and lower lips, eyelids and the bony structures in her mid-face. She also lost both of her hands. While these wounds have been stabilized, critical issues still remain related to a significant traumatic brain injury and injuries to her eyes that threaten her vision." a press release from the Cleveland Clinic said.


Nash was attacked by a chimp named "Travis" in February. She went to a friend's home to help coax the domesticated primate back into the house when the attack happened.

Opthalmologists and neurosurgeons are managing Nash's injuries, but the statement points out that consideration of any reconstruction options is premature at this time.

Doctor Bram Kaufman at MetroHealth Medical Center said reconstruction is carefully planned in a case like this. Kaufman, a plastic surgeon, said the brain and eye injuries are the most critical.

If reconstruction is an option, Kaufman predicts the recovery process will take some time.

"The wounds will heal quickly once they're reconstructed, but the rehabilitation and the recovery and revision surgeries, if necessary, can last easily two years or more," Kaufman said.

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knny187

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Re: chimp attack-chimp killed-im sickened
« Reply #18 on: March 07, 2009, 10:00:33 AM »
sounds bad to me

Vet

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Re: chimp attack-chimp killed-im sickened
« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2009, 10:20:26 AM »
How do you guys know the extent of this lady's injuries?  None of the repots I came across divulged any of the details?  the thing ripped her eyes out?   :o  Fuck that's insane. 

Also I'd like to know when the hell you (vet) ever saw footage or real life witnessing of another chimp being pulled around by his scrotum and anally raped by another chimp.  As crazy as these chimps are this just sounds like more urban legend. 

Yes, she was severely mauled--face, arms, fingers.  Like I said, chimps have three targets--the face, the fingers, and the genitalia.   He probably beat her on the head as he was ripping her face off too.    

I've done alot of things through the years involving exotic animals and wildlife.  From working as an exotic pet breeder/supplier/dealer consultant to working as a consultant for small roadside zoos and exotic animal dealers (I don't do that much anymore) to working as a private practitioner in practices where the general rule was if the owner paid the bill, the animal got veterinary care, it didn't matter what it was.   I've also worked with chimps in both research situations and with those kept by zoos.   I've worked with them (and several other "dangerous" wild animals) for the last several years.  The more time you spend with the animals, the more you are likely to see.  

Its not urban legend.  They are very, very dangerous animals.  The amount of damage a healthy male chimp is capable of delivering or recieving is nothing short of amazing.  The problem with chimps is they aren't necessarily going to kill you like a tiger or an elephant.  They are going to maim you and leave you to die.  To me that makes things even worse.  

Vet

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Re: chimp attack-chimp killed-im sickened
« Reply #20 on: March 07, 2009, 10:34:22 AM »
Heres the question thats come up over and over again at work----is it right to save a person who's been mauled like that (Not necessarily an animal attack especially considering that the doctors knew when she came in that her face was cheese grated and her fingers were missing, what about a horse stomping a person or even a dog attack)?   

If it was me, if I ever regained conscious thought, I'd be furious at the doctors for not just letting me die.   Her life will never be the same, that is IF she ever recovers enough to leave the hospital. 


Its something to think about. 

Butterbean

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Re: chimp attack-chimp killed-im sickened
« Reply #21 on: March 07, 2009, 10:39:14 AM »
Heres the question thats come up over and over again at work----is it right to save a person who's been mauled like that (Not necessarily an animal attack especially considering that the doctors knew when she came in that her face was cheese grated and her fingers were missing, what about a horse stomping a person or even a dog attack)?   

If it was me, if I ever regained conscious thought, I'd be furious at the doctors for not just letting me die.   Her life will never be the same, that is IF she ever recovers enough to leave the hospital. 


Its something to think about. 

I think by law they are supposed to try to save the person's life.  Not sure though.

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freespirit

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Re: chimp attack-chimp killed-im sickened
« Reply #22 on: March 07, 2009, 10:42:28 AM »
Heres the question thats come up over and over again at work----is it right to save a person who's been mauled like that (Not necessarily an animal attack especially considering that the doctors knew when she came in that her face was cheese grated and her fingers were missing, what about a horse stomping a person or even a dog attack)?   

If it was me, if I ever regained conscious thought, I'd be furious at the doctors for not just letting me die.   Her life will never be the same, that is IF she ever recovers enough to leave the hospital. 


Its something to think about. 

This woman is better of dead. There's no reason to live for her anymore. Those so called doctors, all they think of is their own "success" as a doctor. It's all ego, they don't give a shit about her quality of living.

Vet

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Re: chimp attack-chimp killed-im sickened
« Reply #23 on: March 07, 2009, 10:59:08 AM »
I think by law they are supposed to try to save the person's life.  Not sure though.



They are.......   Again, its something to think about, thats all. 

MuscleMcMannus

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Re: chimp attack-chimp killed-im sickened
« Reply #24 on: March 07, 2009, 05:26:16 PM »
They are.......   Again, its something to think about, thats all. 

Vet you of all people should realize we treat animals more humanely than we do our own.  I mean we put sick dogs down who are in pain, terminal or whatever.  Nope, we think we are being moral/ethical when we sit there and let human beings die in pain, suffering and loss of dignity.  Sorry but if I'm a fucking 85 year old guy who is shitting himself and doesn't recognize my family I don't want to live.  We are disgusting sometimes as human beings.