Author Topic: Obama: Tax cuts Will Be Felt By April 1 (Read 5622 times)

Benny B · « **Reply #25 on:** February 22, 2009, 06:27:58 PM »

Quote from: George Whorewell on February 22, 2009, 06:01:08 PM

Benny...obviously knows a lot more than the rest of us.

Thanks!

tonymctones · « **Reply #26 on:** February 22, 2009, 06:59:13 PM »

ill send you my money benny if you pay taxes for the next 40 yrs to pay me back dumb ass

Dos Equis · « **Reply #27 on:** February 22, 2009, 08:40:53 PM »

Quote from: Hedgehog on February 22, 2009, 11:58:41 AM

Good point about cutting government spending.

However, during a recession, stimulating the economy is important. If you slow down the cash flow, you risk freezing down the economy even more.

But I still think Obama should look through the whole budget and try to slash spendings.

If anything, he could re-distribute valuable tax dollars to worthwhile things that could actually help the economy instead of spending it on bullshit.

He's actually vowed to do this, and I will be disappointed if he does not introduce a few savings in the budget pretty soon.

Hedge did your position on tax cuts change? I thought you were opposed?

Benny B · « **Reply #28 on:** February 22, 2009, 09:25:18 PM »

Quote from: shootfighter1 on February 22, 2009, 01:19:15 PM

Benny, you have apparently ignored the proven fact that cutting corporate taxes and capital gains taxes stimulates business. In the past, gov has even obtained more $ after cutting capital gains taxes because more people invest in the market and businesses. This isn't debateable. Your just a big government guy, we are much different.

Who the fuck has any capital gains ~~(besides me)~~ in this environment? That shit is irrelevant.

Quote

At least Iraq spending will decrease as the region is somewhat more stable. The issue is still overseas spending. We are pulling back funds and troops from Iraq but seem to be transferring them to Afghanastan. Overall spending abroad must decrease because of our financial situation.

How about you trust the president on this. His budget forecast is coming out this week, and trust me "shootfighter" when I tell you that President Obama is smarter than you. I've read your posts.

It is not an even switch from Iraq to Afghanistan in cost...we are getting out of Iraq and putting much fewer troops into Afghanistan. Combine that with the tax hike on those making over $250k, and the budget will get closure to being balanced, even with the spending on the important things the country needs like infrastructure, energy independence, education, universal healthcare, etc.

The president is about to do all the things he promised and STILL bring the deficit down to a level where it can be paid off during his second term. Just watch and weep Obama-Haters, Obama is going to make you the "Gang of No" while his accomplishments will say "Yes We Did!" You aren't winning except in the south and the rural west, because that's all the Repubes have left. A party out of touch and on the verge of becoming irrelevant.

MRDUMPLING · « **Reply #29 on:** February 23, 2009, 06:39:50 AM »

Then another party better step up to the plate if the repubs become obsolete. The last thing we need is just one party...

Hedgehog · « **Reply #30 on:** February 23, 2009, 06:45:31 AM »

Quote from: Beach Bum on February 22, 2009, 08:40:53 PM

Hedge did your position on tax cuts change? I thought you were opposed?

Not really.

But you remember correctly that before the economic crisis I was in favor of raising taxes in order to build budget surpluses and cool down the economy.

I am a firm believer in Keynesanism.

So I believe in tax cuts during recessions in order to get the economy running.

And tax raises during economic boom in order to cool the economy down, and to build a healthy budget surplus for bad times a head.

I see a lot of guys posting how USA shouldn't spend money right now.

But that would freeze up the economy totally.

The problem is that USA comes into this situation being already in debt, since Reagan every budget has been a deficit except for a few during Clinton.

Would USA's economy been like during Ike, or like it was in the 60's, a crisis like the current one could've been easily bridged over, because the resources were huge back then.

USA could've overspent for a few years, then gone back into running surplus budgets.

But it's not the same today due to irresponsibility by past presidents.

USA still needs to spend to get out of the crisis. But Obama needs to get rid of any unneccessary costs in his budget as well.

JMHO.

Soul Crusher · « **Reply #31 on:** February 23, 2009, 06:59:11 AM »

We are overtaxed as it is.

The govt has grown beyond the rate of inflation and raising taxes on people now is not a good solution.

They need to cut spending at least 10% across the board.

Hedgehog · « **Reply #32 on:** February 23, 2009, 07:03:36 AM »

Quote from: 333386 on February 23, 2009, 06:59:11 AM

We are overtaxed as it is.

The govt has grown beyond the rate of inflation and raising taxes on people now is not a good solution.

They need to cut spending at least 10% across the board.

No offence, but do you have a reading disability?

Where in my post did I write that I wanted to raise the taxes?

Soul Crusher · « **Reply #33 on:** February 23, 2009, 07:10:42 AM »

Quote from: Hedgehog on February 23, 2009, 07:03:36 AM

No offence, but do you have a reading disability?

Where in my post did I write that I wanted to raise the taxes?

I did not say you said that, but Obama is raising taxes on people by letting the Bush tax cuts expire.

Hedgehog · « **Reply #34 on:** February 23, 2009, 07:20:22 AM »

Quote from: 333386 on February 23, 2009, 07:10:42 AM

I did not say you said that, but Obama is raising taxes on people by letting the Bush tax cuts expire.

Good point.

However, do you think those tax cuts gives most bang for the buck?

Ie, what I really am asking is, if you just have a certain amount of money to put into tax cuts, where do you think those tax cuts should be done?

Soul Crusher · « **Reply #35 on:** February 23, 2009, 07:26:42 AM »

Quote from: Hedgehog on February 23, 2009, 07:20:22 AM

Good point.

However, do you think those tax cuts gives most bang for the buck?

Ie, what I really am asking is, if you just have a certain amount of money to put into tax cuts, where do you think those tax cuts should be done?

I am always in favor of letting people keep their own money as much as possible.

They worked for it and should be able to keep it.

Hedgehog · « **Reply #36 on:** February 23, 2009, 07:33:19 AM »

Quote from: 333386 on February 23, 2009, 07:26:42 AM

I am always in favor of letting people keep their own money as much as possible.

They worked for it and should be able to keep it.

I'm looking at it as a way to manage macro economics.

Tax cuts, even subsidies, could kickstart economies during recessions.

Tax raises can help prevent the economy from heating over during booms.

shootfighter1 · « **Reply #37 on:** February 23, 2009, 08:18:15 AM »

Benny, capital gains tax applies to anyone who has any investment in a business, so it directly applies. It also directly applies to the stock market so it overlaps with mutual funds, retirement funds, etc. How could you reason that it doesn't apply? We are talking about stimulating business. Business get capital from investors.

First, I don't claim to be smarter than Obama, but for your info I have a postgraduate degree and was valedictorian of my college. I'm happy you can judge my intellect from scattered internet posts. Nonetheless, the smartest people don't always have the best answers. Thats where experience, leadership and judgement comes in. Obama listens to many advisors. No one person can be an expert in so many areas. I believe he is choosing to listen to advisors who favor big government. Its not necessarily stupid or incorrect, its just a different philosophy. I hate big government control and interference, so I disagree with many of their recent ideas. There are plenty of smart people who have different philosophies.
The fact that you continually label others who don't agree with your philosophy stupid, questions your own intellect.

Benny B · « **Reply #38 on:** February 23, 2009, 08:32:34 AM »

Quote from: shootfighter1 on February 23, 2009, 08:18:15 AM

First, I don't claim to be smarter than Obama, but for your info I have a postgraduate degree and was valedictorian of my college.

Hedgehog · « **Reply #39 on:** February 23, 2009, 08:39:46 AM »

Quote from: shootfighter1 on February 23, 2009, 08:18:15 AM

Benny, capital gains tax applies to anyone who has any investment in a business, so it directly applies. It also directly applies to the stock market so it overlaps with mutual funds, retirement funds, etc. How could you reason that it doesn't apply? We are talking about stimulating business. Business get capital from investors.

First, I don't claim to be smarter than Obama, but for your info I have a postgraduate degree and was valedictorian of my college. I'm happy you can judge my intellect from scattered internet posts. Nonetheless, the smartest people don't always have the best answers. Thats where experience, leadership and judgement comes in. Obama listens to many advisors. No one person can be an expert in so many areas. I believe he is choosing to listen to advisors who favor big government. Its not necessarily stupid or incorrect, its just a different philosophy. I hate big government control and interference, so I disagree with many of their recent ideas. There are plenty of smart people who have different philosophies.
The fact that you continually label others who don't agree with your philosophy stupid, questions your own intellect.

Would you agree though that there is a Keynesianist revival throughout the world at the moment?

The 90's and 00's were IMO largely influenced by Friedman's and Fukujama's views.

Here's what Gordon Brown said today:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/02/22/germany.financial.summit/index.html

I'm interested in how you would like to fix the current economic crisis if not by using stimulus?

And also, I see what you're saying about not increasing the government.

But a universal healthcare would be only be funded through taxes.
The private hospitals will still be in the business of giving the healthcare.

ER care, which everyone is entitled to, is BTW the most expensive type of care. And with universal health care there might actually be some money saved in the end?

What are your thoughts on universal health care?

shootfighter1 · « **Reply #40 on:** February 23, 2009, 09:54:45 AM »

Because of time, answers here are always more brief than they should be, but here are some general thoughts:

I read the CNN article. The financial system has significant international ties and influence so discussing this with other countries is reasonable. One concern is that we must do what is best for us first. Dealing with these mutli-national groups, the US always seems to fund the bulk of the projects, helping less developed nations. That can't happen. Other superpowers must step up. Also, nationalization and gov control hasn't worked well in other nations so we must be careful about government control.
My general theory is that government should make sure private industry plays by equal rules. Free markets work when you apply rules equally and do not play favortism, as has been done. The gov, in general is very wasteful. Private industry gets things done faster and more efficiently. However, appropriate oversight is necessary IMO. As the gov is controling more bank interests, we must make sure it is a temporary situation with clear end objectives.

Hereford · « **Reply #41 on:** February 23, 2009, 10:01:11 AM »

Quote from: shootfighter1 on February 23, 2009, 08:18:15 AM

Benny, capital gains tax applies to anyone who has any investment in a business, so it directly applies. It also directly applies to the stock market so it overlaps with mutual funds, retirement funds, etc. How could you reason that it doesn't apply? We are talking about stimulating business. Business get capital from investors.

Capital gains taxes are government robbery.

So you've worked and built something (business), and the government has taxed you for everything all the way along (income, sales, payroll, etc). Now you want to sell what you have created, and the gvt thinks it is entitled to a cut (35%)?? WTF?!?

Funny how if you lose you ass, the gvt doesn't take a 35% cut of the loss... unless you are union auto industry or banking.

shootfighter1 · « **Reply #42 on:** February 23, 2009, 10:01:18 AM »

Universal healthcare...thats a beast.

I am not opposed to some kind of government intervention. The first thing that should happen is to allow insurance to be sold across state lines so there is more competition. The second thing is an end to coverage of end of life proceedures.
As 333386 suggested previously, I believe INS should be informed of all illegal immigrants who receive care at an ER. We don't deny them care but after their care, they can be tracked and deported (or made to apply for citizenship).
In my experience, the larger the medical institution, the worse the personal patient care. The VA hospital is the best example. I am also concerned with rationing of medical services and prolonged wait times for non-emergent surgery/care. This will happen under a gov system because we will be limited by tax funds. It was already mentioned in the stimulus plan. Yes, hospitals will direct care for patients but there will be a whole management tree created by the government to manage hospital administrations. You could have a huge overbearing system with too many rules, restrictions, and red tape.

Soul Crusher · « **Reply #43 on:** February 23, 2009, 10:03:48 AM »

SSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHH. You are going to destroy the dreams and delusions of the warm hearted socialists.

"The road to Hell is paved with good intentions."

shootfighter1 · « **Reply #44 on:** February 23, 2009, 10:03:59 AM »

Hereford, I have a small medical practice. It is amazing all the taxes we pay and all the regulatory fees. I had no idea it was this bad. Its very hard to stay in business. Thats why so many doctors give up and merge with hospitals.

shootfighter1 · « **Reply #45 on:** February 23, 2009, 10:06:42 AM »

Obama will announce raising capital gains taxes tomorrow to at least 20%. It will hurt businesses and investors but he comes from the camp that believes the gov should take more of the profit realized by investors and people who take risks to create things in this country.

Soul Crusher · « **Reply #46 on:** February 23, 2009, 10:12:03 AM »

Quote from: shootfighter1 on February 23, 2009, 10:03:59 AM

Hereford, I have a small medical practice. It is amazing all the taxes we pay and all the regulatory fees. I had no idea it was this bad. Its very hard to stay in business. Thats why so many doctors give up and merge with hospitals.

What about your E/O insurance caused by med mal lawsuits?

shootfighter1 · « **Reply #47 on:** February 23, 2009, 10:21:24 AM »

Malpractice insurance is very high. Approx $18,000 for a full time family physician here. Its way worse for other specialists....OB, surgeons, etc.
But if the practice only grosses $200,000 (before expenses), thats a significant number.
I never realized how costly employees are. I have to be an employee as well. The business pays half their payroll tax and then pays a percentage of total wages to various gov programs (BWC, health & family services, etc). Then after that they tax any profits. Then you pay your accountants thousands of dollars per year to adhere to all these f-cking IRS rules, quarterly tax payments, different financial sheets that always need to be filled out, payroll checks, etc. Its crazy.

Soul Crusher · « **Reply #48 on:** February 23, 2009, 10:26:08 AM »

Quote from: shootfighter1 on February 23, 2009, 10:21:24 AM

Malpractice insurance is very high. Approx $18,000 for a full time family physician here. Its way worse for other specialists....OB, surgeons, etc.
But if the practice only grosses $200,000 (before expenses), thats a significant number.
I never realized how costly employees are. I have to be an employee as well. The business pays half their payroll tax and then pays a percentage of total wages to various gov programs (BWC, health & family services, etc). Then after that they tax any profits. Then you pay your accountants thousands of dollars per year to adhere to all these f-cking IRS rules, quarterly tax payments, different financial sheets that always need to be filled out, payroll checks, etc. Its crazy.

Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

These fools on this board act like you and I dont know what is going on.

shootfighter1 · « **Reply #49 on:** February 23, 2009, 10:36:14 AM »

Well, I can explain the hardships of running a small business medical practice to anyone here with great detail.
I sacrificed so much in giving up a hospital position (I was the director of a hospital urgent care) to open this practice a bit over 2 yrs ago. I am so much happier here but its a real struggle. The way the nation is going, small businesses are closing everywhere because its too costly to do business.
Who rewards us for the financial sacrifices we make in creating a business and giving employees jobs...not the gov, they take double and Obama and his big gov friends want to take more because its not fair to poor people. Poor people don't put themselves at financial risk to create businesses and give others jobs.