Arthritis in Dogs

[Tapeworm]

My dog Finnigan is about 9 years old and is beginning to limp badly if he overexercises.  He doesn't have any pain when running around but when we get home and he lies down for awhile, he'll be uncomfortable when he gets back up.  If he only goes for walks, and doesn't run, there's no signs of pain at all after the walk.

The vet says it's arthritis.  He's on fish oil and "Glyde" powder by Parnell (Chondroitin Sulfate, Glucosamine Hydrochloride, and Green Lipped Mussel Powder), and he just had his first NSAID pill this evening (Deramax 12.5mg).  I'm uncomfortable with long term use of NSAIDs and am researching an injectable called Zydax (Pentosan polysulfate sodium).  Does anyone have any views on this product?

I think he's got some german sheppard in him, but the problem is his knee as well as his hip.  He has also lost some muscle size in his hind legs, so I'm wondering what percentage of the problem is arthritis and what might be DOMS, or if a lack of muscle is contributing to joint instability.  I realize this sounds like a meathead thing to say, but his hind legs really are a lot skinnier than they used to be so I want to be thorough and investigate a possible correlation.  I asked the vet about the possible benefits of steroids (he's castrated btw), citing the positive effects of nandrolone on human joints, but she just wanted to push the pentosan injections. (I read an interesting paper which suggested the use of IGF1 in conjunction with pentosan for the treatment of arthritis, btw.  Also saw something that ~flower~ posted about stem cell therapy, which I'll be asking the vet about too.),

Obviously, I'm taking care not to run him too much but his exercise tolerance seems to be falling fast over the last few months.  The vet told me to run him as much as I felt was possible though so that he didn't lose muscle (which led me to ask about juicing him up), besides which this dog loves to run.  He absolutely lives for chasing this buoyant ring toy of his in the waves at the beach, and an aerobie at the sports fields, and he is hating me for making him wait longer between throws these days.

If anyone has any thoughts on the pentosan, joint beneficial AAS, or other avenues I should consider please let me know.  Mr. Fin says thanks. 

[Butterbean]

Flower or VEt would be much better ones to comment but we gave our old dog Ascriptin which was an over the counter buffered pain reliever I believe until I felt like she was uncomfortable eating/swallowing the pills because they were large.  Then we switched her to rimadyl because they were so small.

But I learned on here that rimadyl is not the best thing to give your dog.  
  I think Flower gives her dogs "Joint Max."  


www.jointmax.com

[Tapeworm]

Hi Stella.  Looks pretty similar to the Glyde that he gets at the moment.  I wish I had been giving him something for years... an ounce of prevention.


I've heard mixed reviews of Rimadyl and other COX-2 type NSAIDs.  I'm a little concerned with my vet since they didn't seem concerned about getting a baseline or checking for preexisting renal or hepatic problems, which seems logical to me, but I admit I'm paranoid when it comes to the dog.  The little I've read online so far says that the percentage of dogs who have to stop Rimadyl because of sides is pretty low, but I'd still be worried about the added stress that the drug puts on the kidneys (as well as other organs), since a helluva lot of dogs die from kidney failure.

Also a little concerned about the manufacturer Parnell since my research indicates that concurrent use of pentosan injections with NSAIDs could have a real risk of overthinning the blood, yet their approach recommends using both.  As a pain in the ass paranoid dog owner, I've contacted the company in Sydney and asked them about their clinical trials, manufacturing, and their data collection since bringing the drug to market (time on the market, scope of its use, % of allergic reactions, statistically significant differences in diseases from non users, etc) and a bunch of other questions.  So far, the people who can answer these questions are traveling outside the country, so it seems a little mom & pop scale to me, but we'll see.  Maybe it'll turn out that they don't manufacture but are just importing and repackaging, or they're an Aussie sales office of a non Australian company.  If they're out of China, forget it.

At any rate, pentosan sounds like an ok approach from what I've read on the net and the vet says she uses it as a preventative in her nonarthritc dog.  I just want to find out some more about the drug's track record and its maker.  We're going to scale it back some more this week, I think - more walking and sniffing, much less toy chasing.

[~flower~]

I've never heard of pentosan so I did quick search on it:

http://www.wedgewoodpharmacy.com/monographs/pentosan-polysulfate.asp

It seems to be similar in action to Adequan.  I have known people to get good results with Adequan, maybe vet has some info on pentosan and can compare it to Adequan?

Rimadyl and Deramaxx have both caused deaths.  I would only use them short term or as a last resort or if the animal was terminal. 

Asprin shouldn't be used long term either but it could be helpful on a particularly painful day.

 Fish oil I would give 1 capsule (1000mg) per 10pounds of weight or even a little more.  You can split up the daily dose, my guys will eat them like treats. What is even better is salmon oil if you can get it, but regular fish oil is fine if given in the right amount (I think most people give too little fish oil).

Joint sups - a lot of them do have the same ingredients.  You can do a loading dose for 8 weeks and then go to maintenance dose.  I'm not sure if you are in the US but a very good joint sup is Flexile Plus from www.b-naturals.com.   That has manganese in it which helps the other ingredients.  I have never been able to find manganese in a health food store to add it to another joint sup.  Bromelain is also in that which is good for inflammation.  You should be able to find that by itself.  It works better on inflammation if it is given away from a meal but it still helps if given with a meal.

Something else that I used with good results both before and after Emmett's (RIP big boy) tendon surgery was yucca intensive.   That can also be gotten at b-naturals.   That MUST be given with food, it can cause a stomach upset.  Emmett never had a problem but some dogs do.  It really did seem to help his recovery after surgery.  From b-naturals"

  "Yucca Intensive is a liquid form of yucca that contains saponins, which are a precursor for steroids."

If he likes swimming and you have access to a pool or water that is great no impact exercise.   Reading your first post I see you take him to the beach, so try and get him to actually swim in the water which might make him happy with less jumping and running. 

And lastly- diet.  Grains can contribute to inflammation so finding a low or no grain kibble might help.  If you switch kibbles do it slowly mixing the two to lessen the chance of stomach upsets.  Or go to raw!     (c'mon I had to get that in there!)

I hope this info helps. If you go to www.b-naturals.com click on Newsletters, there are a few that related to joint health and one on Flexile plus. They also mention some other vitamins etc that are good for joint health.

[Vet]

My dog Finnigan is about 9 years old and is beginning to limp badly if he overexercises.  He doesn't have any pain when running around but when we get home and he lies down for awhile, he'll be uncomfortable when he gets back up.  If he only goes for walks, and doesn't run, there's no signs of pain at all after the walk.

A 9 year old dog is a "middle aged" to "old" dog no matter what the breed.  Depending on what the dog has done, the combination of genetics, diet, and prior activity levels often starts to catch up with dogs at around this age   Arthritis detection isn't about the perception of pain as much as its changes in the dogs gait that may only be detected by a trained eye.  You will see an older dog walking differently long before they start showing outward signs of pain, unfortunately this often times takes either very careful observation and/or a trained eye.  A hallmark sign of arthritis is a dog is able to "walk out of it".   This is the old dog that is very stiff, appears sore, and moves slowly when they first get up, but after a few minutes of a little walking, they may appear completely normal.   

The vet says it's arthritis.  He's on fish oil and "Glyde" powder by Parnell (Chondroitin Sulfate, Glucosamine Hydrochloride, and Green Lipped Mussel Powder), and he just had his first NSAID pill this evening (Deramax 12.5mg).  I'm uncomfortable with long term use of NSAIDs and am researching an injectable called Zydax (Pentosan polysulfate sodium).  Does anyone have any views on this product?

I'm not familiar with the product itself.   Adequan has set the gold standard through the years.  I'm not aware of anything working better than adequan in combination with something containing MSM and fish oil.  That said there are other products on the market that mimick Adequan, there are a ton of MSM and fish oil products out there.  Make sure the fish oil has a high concentraiton of Omega 3's.  That is the fatty acid that specifically has antiinflammatory effects (proven in both human and veterinary literature) Omega 6's and 9's have more of an effect on hair and skin. 

I also agree---I dont think daily NSAIDS are the best way to deal with a chronic disease like this.  Unfortunately NSAIDS in dogs are often like NSAIDS in humans---it may take a couple of trials tofind the one that works best for that dog.  My preferred drug is metacam (meloxicam) because it seems to have clinical effects across multiple species, it seems to work when other drugs dont,  and I personally have seen few side effects with its use in multiple species. 

I think he's got some german sheppard in him, but the problem is his knee as well as his hip.  He has also lost some muscle size in his hind legs, so I'm wondering what percentage of the problem is arthritis and what might be DOMS, or if a lack of muscle is contributing to joint instability.  I realize this sounds like a meathead thing to say, but his hind legs really are a lot skinnier than they used to be so I want to be thorough and investigate a possible correlation.  I asked the vet about the possible benefits of steroids (he's castrated btw), citing the positive effects of nandrolone on human joints, but she just wanted to push the pentosan injections. (I read an interesting paper which suggested the use of IGF1 in conjunction with pentosan for the treatment of arthritis, btw.  Also saw something that ~flower~ posted about stem cell therapy, which I'll be asking the vet about too.),

He's lost muscle mass secondarily to disuse of the joint because of pain and discomfort, not the other way around.  This occurs in all species that are prone to degenerative hips/knees.  Initally you see subtle gait changes, loss of range of motion of the joint progressing to lameness with eventual concurrent muscle atrophy.  Finally you see difficulty rising and eventually loss of function of the limb.   This is not a good thing at all.  One of the key treatments of arthritic joints in both humans and dogs is to maintain the muscle mass around that joint to assist in supporting the weight of the affected joint.   

Dogs definately get DOMS.  Dogs with muscle atrophy secondary to arthritis will be more likely to show signs of DOMS after activity, unfortunately its often in combination with joint pain.  I have seen dogs with moderately severely atrophied pelvic limbs have knee surgery to stabilize an ACL tear or a total hip replacement for hip dysplasia build back significant muscle mass that was previously lost.   If your dog was a patient of mine, I'd really stress an awake gait analysis to try to identify affected joits, then palpation of all joints of the pelvic limbs from the toes up (this may need to be done with some light sedation/pain medication).  palpation isn't just to feel for joint discomfort but also to assess range of motion and any joint instability or new bone formation secondary to joint instability. Based on what joints looked to be affected either when walking and or that showed any clinical signs during palpation, I'd strongly recommend radiographs to establish baseline levels.  Unfortunately radiographs don't always tell you how uncomfortable a dog is.  Dogs may be very painful with minimal radiographic signs or they may act like everything is fine with radiographically terrible joints.   The thing is they give a definitive measure for initial evaluation and a standard to compare with for future assessment. 

Obviously, I'm taking care not to run him too much but his exercise tolerance seems to be falling fast over the last few months.  The vet told me to run him as much as I felt was possible though so that he didn't lose muscle (which led me to ask about juicing him up), besides which this dog loves to run.  He absolutely lives for chasing this buoyant ring toy of his in the waves at the beach, and an aerobie at the sports fields, and he is hating me for making him wait longer between throws these days.

Exercise is an absolute must do with a dog with arthritis.  The thing is you need to find the balance that keeps the dog lean and active, but doesn't overstress the joints.  Unfortunately in an older dog with deteriorating joints this may be something that changes frequently.  Weight loss and maintaining a lean bodycondition is a key component.  i've seen dogs who could hardly move when they were heavy who lost weight and had significant improvements in mobility secondary to their new body conditon.   Keep your dog lean and if he isn't lean, get him lean. 

If anyone has any thoughts on the pentosan, joint beneficial AAS, or other avenues I should consider please let me know.  Mr. Fin says thanks. 

   The problem with anabolic steroids is that they don't do much to actually heal the joints.  Veterinary medicine outside of Equine performance has taken a turn away from those drugs for maintenance of arthritic dogs.  The problem is the drugs aren't used correctly.  For example, equipoise stimulate the appetite.  Many times owners don't exercise their dogs enough as it is and then they get a drug like that, they just feed the dogs more becuase the dogs are "hungry".  So what ends up happening is a fat dog that should be exercising to loose weight and build muscle is fed more and ends up getting fatter making the arthritis worse.   I am aware of these drugs being used in certian "working" dogs but its not that common and you are going to have to look for the veterinarians who do it. 

My basic recommendations are:
1) get rid of any excess weight as needed
2) get your dog active to maintain muscle mass, but be reasonable.  Don't push a severely lame old dog, you are only going to make things worse
3) use nutritional support as indicated by response: ie fish oil, MSM, etc
4) Massage, accupuncture, and range of motion therapy have their benefits if the dog will tolerate them and you live in an area with someone who knows what they are doing.   Make sure the person doing that knows what they are doing or else someone could get bit or the dog could end up hurting worse. 
5) use NSAIDS as indicated for severe pain and limited management during times of extreme exercise or other stress (ie really cold nights for some dogs).
6) DO NOT LET THE VETERINARIAN INJECT ANY CORTICOSTEROIDS, INCLUDING DEPOMEDROL without testing to indicate these are medically indicated!.    "Depo" shots are an old knee jerk response to arthritic dogs.  The dog will feel better from corticosteroid euphoria, but the corticosteroids will increase joint cartilage breakdown.     

[Vet]

I've never heard of pentosan so I did quick search on it:

http://www.wedgewoodpharmacy.com/monographs/pentosan-polysulfate.asp

It seems to be similar in action to Adequan.  I have known people to get good results with Adequan, maybe vet has some info on pentosan and can compare it to Adequan?

Rimadyl and Deramaxx have both caused deaths.  I would only use them short term or as a last resort or if the animal was terminal. 

Asprin shouldn't be used long term either but it could be helpful on a particularly painful day.

 Fish oil I would give 1 capsule (1000mg) per 10pounds of weight or even a little more.  You can split up the daily dose, my guys will eat them like treats. What is even better is salmon oil if you can get it, but regular fish oil is fine if given in the right amount (I think most people give too little fish oil).

Joint sups - a lot of them do have the same ingredients.  You can do a loading dose for 8 weeks and then go to maintenance dose.  I'm not sure if you are in the US but a very good joint sup is Flexile Plus from www.b-naturals.com.   That has manganese in it which helps the other ingredients.  I have never been able to find manganese in a health food store to add it to another joint sup.  Bromelain is also in that which is good for inflammation.  You should be able to find that by itself.  It works better on inflammation if it is given away from a meal but it still helps if given with a meal.

Something else that I used with good results both before and after Emmett's (RIP big boy) tendon surgery was yucca intensive.   That can also be gotten at b-naturals.   That MUST be given with food, it can cause a stomach upset.  Emmett never had a problem but some dogs do.  It really did seem to help his recovery after surgery.  From b-naturals"

  "Yucca Intensive is a liquid form of yucca that contains saponins, which are a precursor for steroids."

If he likes swimming and you have access to a pool or water that is great no impact exercise.   Reading your first post I see you take him to the beach, so try and get him to actually swim in the water which might make him happy with less jumping and running. 

And lastly- diet.  Grains can contribute to inflammation so finding a low or no grain kibble might help.  If you switch kibbles do it slowly mixing the two to lessen the chance of stomach upsets.  Or go to raw!     (c'mon I had to get that in there!)

I hope this info helps. If you go to www.b-naturals.com click on Newsletters, there are a few that related to joint health and one on Flexile plus. They also mention some other vitamins etc that are good for joint health.

I pretty much agree with Flower with this post too.....  except for the saponin part which is typical phytonutrient bullshit. Saponins are not a distinct chemical compound they are a generic class of compounds, the majority of which are found in plant species.   Saponins are not as a group necessarily safe substances to be randomly administering to your pet.  One of the often omitted components to those advocatng Saponins as a group is that Saponins are chemicals of defense of plants.  Different chemicals can cause individualized reactions and in select cases can be very toxic to the organism ingesting them.   They arent' something to be taken lightly and randomly administered to your dog unless you know exactly what you are administering.    Unless I'm not mistaken (I may be wrong here, so please don't quote me, I'm going by memory with this one and its been a long time), the particular saponin in Yucca is Solanine, which while it has a steroid ring sructurally, it isn't a precursor, its a naturally occuring highly toxic glycoalkaloid poison.  Solanine intoxication causes GI upset, vomiting, diarrhea, and neurologic signs.   

I also sorta disagree with the grain reasoning, considering dogs are omnivores, the thing is high grain foods are also increased body fat promoting foods.   A fat dog is much more likely to develop degenerative joints secondary to the obesity.   Keep your dog lean, they will be less likely to get arthritis and if they do, they'll be able to deal with it easier than a super fat dog. 

[Tapeworm]

Thank you very much for the comprehensive responses. 

Stella - I'm probably going to haunt the vet in the same way for awhile, and am going to be fairly insistant (tempered with appreciativeness) when it comes to getting baseline data where it's prudent to do so and ensuring he doesn't have any at risk systems that might collapse under one drug or another.  I'm going to get multiple opinions too, since the course of treatment recommended by the vet down the road was pretty one dimensional and you could really sense the influence of Parnell in there, since no other company's products were available - no dietary supps or injectables made by others were represented.  That being said, the vets there seem like good folks, knowledgeable, and very willing to take the time to answer questions.

~flower~ - That's the first I've heard to Adequan.  I'll definitely be looking into that.  With what Vet said, it sounds like it has been around a lot longer than the pentosan, and I definitely prefer to take a conservative approach and use a drug with a longer market history.

Sounds like I may be ODing the dog on fish oil a bit.  He's about 40 lbs and gets approximately 10g a day.  I use the liquid (no way this spoiled mutt would eat the pills) and swig from the same bottle myself.  I have a digital kitchen scale that I used awhile back to get a sense of g/volume, and I just eyeball it when I pour it into his bowl (along with the supp powder and some milk so he'll eat it).

Thanks for the link to b-naturals.  I'll be doing some reading there this evening.  The current supp has no manganese or bromelain as far as I know (unless it's hidden in the other ingredients and I don't know it).  I've added that to the 'vet question list' along with the yucca.

His diet is semi raw.  I get 'pet mince' from the butcher, which is quite a high fat (by the feel of it) mix of bits 'n pieces.  Then I grind up veggies (carrots, broccoli, celery, cauliflower) in the cuisinart, mix up a big batch at about 40% veg to 60% meat by volume, and freeze it in sandwich bags.  I've been adding liver to the mix on and off too.  He eats this 4-5 nights a week and gets "Advance" kibble the other few nights.  It's not an ultra-expensive kibble (I've seen some that are more expensive than feeding him good cuts of steak!  swear!), but it's pretty high quality... I guess.  I got it at the vet, and the first ingredient listed is chicken and chicken meal, although the next 3 are rice, sorghum, and corn. 

Fin won't swim more than a few strokes at the beach, even if I'm out there.  I think the waves and undertow just freak him too much.  As soon as the paws lose contact with the sand he heads straight for land again.  He swims no problem in lakes and ponds tho, so after this post I'm taking him up to the park where there's a big pond.  He loves swimming out after a ball, stick, whatever, and he's still convinced that he's going to be able to catch a duck one day.  Sometimes you get to just sit back and watch him swim around and around after 'em.  I'd never let him catch one, if there was a lame one out there or whatever, but it's just hilarious to watch.  He really thinks he'll get there one day. 

Vet - Yep, I'm definitely looking for a long term treatment other than NSAIDs.  I'll ask the vet here about meloxicam though, since I predict he'll be getting a pill just occasionally if he overdoes it.  His worst night was about a month ago (after a long walk on the beach with another dog), and he couldn't stand up at all.  He was trying, and wound up dragging his back legs along the floor until I told him to stay and just picked him up wherever he needed to go for the night.  It really hammered home how serious this was getting.  Of course, 48 hours later you couldn't believe it was the same dog, jumping around and full of beans again, without any limping at all.

I had an xray done on him (he was really stoned afterwards and probably not too happy with me).  The vet said it basically just confirmed that the problem was arthritis, but I'm glad we've got it for future reference.  Of course, I didn't know how to interpret them, but the vet said his left hip and knee were the problem.  She said that an ACL tear was a big concern and to avoid activities that require a quick change in direction.  That's why I thought toys at the beach were a good idea (in the shallow surf), but I'm second guessing that now because maybe the 'bounding' required in shallow water (and on sand) is putting more stress on the joint than normal running.

He's not too overweight (although he has been in past years when I was living with my x) but the vet wanted him to lose about 3 or 4 lbs.  He had a waistline but no real ribs basically.  He's lost about 1.5 by now I'd say. 

No sweat about the corticosteroids - there's no way in hell.  I was thinking more of joint lubing stuff like deca or collagen synthesis promoting compounds like oxandrolone or gh, but Adequan and nutritional supps sound like a much better approach.  I assume the MSM is 'Methylsulfonylmethane?'  Massage, acupuncture, and ROM therapy are things I hadn't yet considered, so I'll ask each of the vets I see if they do it or have a rock solid recommendation they can give.

Just saw your second post re: yucca and saponins.  I'll do my reading but will probably stick with low risk and proven treatments.  My worst fear at the moment is giving him something that hurts or kills him.  Back in '03 or '04 he had a 'hot spot' and the vet (a different one than present) gave him a cortisone shot which caused a near fatal flair up of pancreatitis.  If they hadn't rehydrated him intraveniously he would have been dead within a day (that was on Christmas day of all days).  So I'm glad they saved him, but I was ready to kill them when a vet there let it slip (props for honesty in hindsight, I guess) that it was the cortisone shot that caused the problem.    So I'm left with a sort of paranoia when it comes to 'lets give the dog this drug' situations.

Thanks again!  We're off to the park! 

[Vet]

I apologize if I scared you with the Saponin post.  I wasn't trying to scare anyone or to overly criticize Flower---although in rereading the post I have wonder if it can't be taken that way.  What I'm trying to say is make damned sure that you know what it is you are giving your dog.  Theres alot of things out there (in human vitamins too) that are randomly marketed with absolutely no proof what so ever they maybe helpful to the individual taking them (I my mind, this might include some psychotropic drugs too). 


Anyway, the ACL tear is much worse than hip dysplasia.  Was it diagnosed as a complete or partial tear?  Plapation was done under sedation?  Was surgery mentioned?  Unfortunately braces and supportive wear that can allow humans to get by (I've had partial ACL tears and torn menisci in both my knees  through the years) don't work on dogs because of the structure of their legs.   Luckily your dog is under 50 lbs, so thats much different than a 95 lb rottie.   The reason I ask about palpation while sedated is that some dogs have enough leg musculature to resist the palpation and mask the torn meniscus.  My old female pitbull has had 2 knee surgeries---she tore both ACLand CCL, completely destabilizing her knee.  Even then, you could barely get a drawer sign from her unless she was heavily sedated.   When she was sedated her knee flopped all over the place.   She has a partial tear of the other cruciate (unfortunately, in dogs if there is one ACL tear, there is something like a 75-85% chance tha the other pelvic limb will develop a tear) that cannot be palpated without sedation at all.   

I personally think surgery to stabilize the knee is important to consider for dogs because it significantly decreases pain and discomfort.  The dog will never be 100% again, but they can return to 80 - 90% of normal function.  I'm not sold on TPLO surgeries because they are invasive, they don't replace the torn ligament, and there is association with development of long term complications, but a lateral suture or something similar will help to stabilize the knee.   Its something to think about.  Just make sure the veterinarian doing the proceedure knows what the hell they are doing.  Opening the joint IS NOT always indicated, even though some veterinary surgeons will try to tell you it is.   The thing is that you want to do surgery soon, before significant changes in the joint occurs, but you have to assess the point where the dog is uncomfortable enough to need the surgery.  It varies from dog to dog and again, a 40 lb dog is right on the cusp.   I probably wouldn't recommend the surgery on a dog under 35 lbs unless they are very uncomfortable.  Larger dogs are different. 

[Tapeworm]

Damn, sorry Vet!  I think I was unclear above.  My dog doesn't have an ACL tear at the moment.  The vet just said that would be something that could happen in the future and that I should make sure he avoids quick changes of direction when running and other things that would overstress the joint.

In rereading what I posted, I did make it sound like there was an ACL tear on the xray, but I just meant that she said it could be a concern in the future because it's a common injury for dogs with OA.  Sorry bro.  Thanks for the response tho.  It may come in handy in the future, although I hope it doesn't have to.  It's good to know that opening up the joint is always the only option.

[Vet]

Damn, sorry Vet!  I think I was unclear above.  My dog doesn't have an ACL tear at the moment.  The vet just said that would be something that could happen in the future and that I should make sure he avoids quick changes of direction when running and other things that would overstress the joint.

In rereading what I posted, I did make it sound like there was an ACL tear on the xray, but I just meant that she said it could be a concern in the future because it's a common injury for dogs with OA.  Sorry bro.  Thanks for the response tho.  It may come in handy in the future, although I hope it doesn't have to.  It's good to know that opening up the joint is always the only option.

Yeah, I misunderstood what you wrote to say your dog has an ACL tear with hip dysplasia.   I'm seriously coffee defficient this morning...  anyway, if its just arthritis, controlled exercise and weight management with nutritional support and NSAIDS as indicated.    The sand of a beach or waves may be too much.  Your dog will tell you.  Listen to what he has to say, but keep him active. 

[Tapeworm]

Yeah, I misunderstood what you wrote to say your dog has an ACL tear with hip dysplasia.   I'm seriously coffee defficient this morning...  anyway, if its just arthritis, controlled exercise and weight management with nutritional support and NSAIDS as indicated.    The sand of a beach or waves may be too much.  Your dog will tell you.  Listen to what he has to say, but keep him active. 

No worries there.  He comes to work every day with me and gets a walk every afternoon.  Definitely not a back yard dog by any means.

Had a good swim in a pond today, about 30 minutes or so going after a ball.  No pain this evening. 

[biceps]

My dog Finnigan is about 9 years old and is beginning to limp badly if he overexercises.  He doesn't have any pain when running around but when we get home and he lies down for awhile, he'll be uncomfortable when he gets back up.  If he only goes for walks, and doesn't run, there's no signs of pain at all after the walk.

The vet says it's arthritis.  He's on fish oil and "Glyde" powder by Parnell (Chondroitin Sulfate, Glucosamine Hydrochloride, and Green Lipped Mussel Powder), and he just had his first NSAID pill this evening (Deramax 12.5mg).  I'm uncomfortable with long term use of NSAIDs and am researching an injectable called Zydax (Pentosan polysulfate sodium).  Does anyone have any views on this product?

I think he's got some german sheppard in him, but the problem is his knee as well as his hip.  He has also lost some muscle size in his hind legs, so I'm wondering what percentage of the problem is arthritis and what might be DOMS, or if a lack of muscle is contributing to joint instability.  I realize this sounds like a meathead thing to say, but his hind legs really are a lot skinnier than they used to be so I want to be thorough and investigate a possible correlation.  I asked the vet about the possible benefits of steroids (he's castrated btw), citing the positive effects of nandrolone on human joints, but she just wanted to push the pentosan injections. (I read an interesting paper which suggested the use of IGF1 in conjunction with pentosan for the treatment of arthritis, btw.  Also saw something that ~flower~ posted about stem cell therapy, which I'll be asking the vet about too.),

Obviously, I'm taking care not to run him too much but his exercise tolerance seems to be falling fast over the last few months.  The vet told me to run him as much as I felt was possible though so that he didn't lose muscle (which led me to ask about juicing him up), besides which this dog loves to run.  He absolutely lives for chasing this buoyant ring toy of his in the waves at the beach, and an aerobie at the sports fields, and he is hating me for making him wait longer between throws these days.

If anyone has any thoughts on the pentosan, joint beneficial AAS, or other avenues I should consider please let me know.  Mr. Fin says thanks. 

If you are in the USA I will help you pet, (no charge) you can contact me by going to my website www.agentk9.com or www.petequinox.com

[Tapeworm]

If you are in the USA I will help you pet, (no charge) you can contact me by going to my website www.agentk9.com or www.petequinox.com

Thank you for the offer biceps but I live in Australia.

The 'ol mutt is now in week 3 of a 4 week pentosan cycle.  Frankly, I haven't noticed any improvement.  He is still stiff and limps after lying down.  Of course, so does his owner. 

[biceps]

Thank you for the offer biceps but I live in Australia.

The 'ol mutt is now in week 3 of a 4 week pentosan cycle.  Frankly, I haven't noticed any improvement.  He is still stiff and limps after lying down.  Of course, so does his owner. 

Australia is OK, it would be available in 3 weeks in Australia, and (no charge) for your pet, just go to www.petequinox.com.au and contact Peter. In return just give us a testimonial and if is possible a video before and after.

[Tapeworm]

Australia is OK, it would be available in 3 weeks in Australia, and (no charge) for your pet, just go to www.petequinox.com.au and contact Peter. In return just give us a testimonial and if is possible a video before and after.

Thanks mate, I'll look into it.  I take a very conservative approach (bordering on paranoid), so I'll do some research on the product and get back to you. 

Thank you again for your generosity.

[biceps]

Thanks mate, I'll look into it.  I take a very conservative approach (bordering on paranoid), so I'll do some research on the product and get back to you. 

Thank you again for your generosity.

You can see the study conducted by Dr Gipper from Hungary,(on the website).

[TrapsMcLats]

Injectible adequin helped my dog a lot.  He also takes previcox and gabapentin (gabapentin: this would most likely not be necessary for most dogs, mine is an extreme special case).  We're also on the road to stem cell work for his arthritis.  Stem cells are the wave of the future for animal arthritis.