Author Topic: The truth behind 9/11 - From the engineering viewpoint.  (Read 3113 times)

a_joker10

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Re: The truth behind 9/11 - From the engineering viewpoint.
« Reply #25 on: March 01, 2009, 07:09:50 PM »
no..both planes hit above 70 floors atleast ....

wtc was made to with-stand jet crashes exactly like what happened.

the base should not have crumbled under...if anything..and i mean anything...the damaged parts and the floors above it should have slid right off

thats plain logic.
The towers were not design to withstand the impact from 757 dreamliners full of fuel.

Gravity always pull down. The floors are flat and mass falls vertically.

Your logic is missing.

240 the melting point of steel is not in question it is at what temperature steel would lose enough strength to collapse the building.
Read the NIST reports the information is there.
Z

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Re: The truth behind 9/11 - From the engineering viewpoint.
« Reply #26 on: March 01, 2009, 08:06:51 PM »
The towers were not design to withstand the impact from 757 dreamliners full of fuel.

Gravity always pull down. The floors are flat and mass falls vertically.
Your logic is missing.

240 the melting point of steel is not in question it is at what temperature steel would lose enough strength to collapse the building.
Read the NIST reports the information is there.

Really? i thought gravity pulls up? the floors were flat? no way. We're not that sophisticated as a society to accomplish that buddy.

The explanation doesn't add up pal.

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Re: The truth behind 9/11 - From the engineering viewpoint.
« Reply #27 on: March 01, 2009, 08:09:28 PM »
The towers were not design to withstand the impact from 757 dreamliners full of fuel.

Are you basing this off your own logic?


Logic that implies "dude, there a shit load of fuel in that jet, no way that a quarter mile long building could with stand more than 45 minutes of burning"

The fucking egineers who designed the wtc....go read up on what they said dip shit.

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Re: The truth behind 9/11 - From the engineering viewpoint.
« Reply #28 on: March 01, 2009, 08:24:56 PM »
what's the point?  event is 8 years old, the majority of americans want a new investigation.  maybe we'll see one, who knows. 

OzmO

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Re: The truth behind 9/11 - From the engineering viewpoint.
« Reply #29 on: March 01, 2009, 08:43:29 PM »
So the WTC's were brought down purposely by the US government because they felt slamming planes into them wouldn't be enough to send America to war?


HAHAHAHAHAHAH



snore............

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Re: The truth behind 9/11 - From the engineering viewpoint.
« Reply #30 on: March 01, 2009, 09:07:35 PM »
So the WTC's were brought down purposely by the US government because they felt slamming planes into them wouldn't be enough to send America to war?


HAHAHAHAHAHAH



snore............


i'm thinking a massive pile of dust and smoking metal with thousands dead, coupled with the trauma of our countries most important buildings wiped off the map miiiiiight be a little more dramatic than 2 giant holes in wtc burning for a couple days and maybe a 2 or 3 hundred deaths.

the latter would be tradgic too don't get me wrong but would it flip that imperialistic "go get em" switch in the heads of many americans as well as the former?

na.

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Re: The truth behind 9/11 - From the engineering viewpoint.
« Reply #31 on: March 01, 2009, 09:30:51 PM »

i'm thinking a massive pile of dust and smoking metal with thousands dead, coupled with the trauma of our countries most important buildings wiped off the map miiiiiight be a little more dramatic than 2 giant holes in wtc burning for a couple days and maybe a 2 or 3 hundred deaths.

the latter would be tradgic too don't get me wrong but would it flip that imperialistic "go get em" switch in the heads of many americans as well as the former?

na.

It's overkill.  Think it through.

They have to wire the building with explosives in such a way that no one finds out?  Impossible on so many levels.


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Re: The truth behind 9/11 - From the engineering viewpoint.
« Reply #32 on: March 01, 2009, 09:34:10 PM »
So the WTC's were brought down purposely by the US government because they felt slamming planes into them wouldn't be enough to send America to war?


HAHAHAHAHAHAH



snore............

Well, a few weeks ago 240 was asserting the notion that the US government was somehow able to line a building that is open to thousands of people 24/7/365 with the thousands of pounds of explosives needed to bring it down without a single person noticing or commenting. Not only that, they were also able to make three planes, full of hundreds of people, disappear off the face of the earth!!!!!!!!

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Re: The truth behind 9/11 - From the engineering viewpoint.
« Reply #33 on: March 01, 2009, 10:59:42 PM »
Ok lets address the subjects that people have brought up:

1.WTC7 feel at free fall speed, well I used a little something called Newton kinematic equation and proved that statement wrong. 240 if you claim that the NIST say THAT than PLEASE give us a direct quote.

2.As Ozmo have said, our brilliant getbig team did a comprehensive structure analysis by using a 20 sec video of a building burning.....that should be enough to understand how deep they go in their investigations.

3.The purpose of this thread was to show some of the getbig experts the effects of heat on metal, according to the getbig experts the bronze and iron age shouldn't exist since they couldn't melt the metals .... yet.... I'm pretty sure they didn't fight with wooden swords.

4.Lining buildings those with explosive is impossible , they have tens of thousands of people in them daily...kind of hard to hide. Go watch a youtube video of how many wires and drilling is needed for such an operation.

5.If the WTC7 was just a government operation than why didn't they arrange it a better story? Maybe a plane or helicopter collide into it too? I mean you claim this was the most brilliant government inside job ever...yet...they forgot to make a cover story for this building  ::)

Did I miss any theory?

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Re: The truth behind 9/11 - From the engineering viewpoint.
« Reply #34 on: March 01, 2009, 11:02:53 PM »
It's overkill.  Think it through.

They have to wire the building with explosives in such a way that no one finds out?  Impossible on so many levels.



It's really not that hard to fathom men coming in wether in broad day or at night and doing such.


a_joker10

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Re: The truth behind 9/11 - From the engineering viewpoint.
« Reply #35 on: March 01, 2009, 11:35:24 PM »
Are you basing this off your own logic?


Logic that implies "dude, there a shit load of fuel in that jet, no way that a quarter mile long building could with stand more than 45 minutes of burning"

The fucking egineers who designed the wtc....go read up on what they said dip shit.

I have.
I also read the NIST report and FEMA report and what the ASCE had to say on the matter.
 Here is a little snippet from the NIST faqs.


http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm

1.  If the World Trade Center (WTC) towers were designed to withstand multiple impacts by Boeing 707 aircraft, why did the impact of individual 767s cause so much damage?

As stated in Section 5.3.2 of NIST NCSTAR 1, a document from the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey (PANYNJ) indicated that the impact of a [single, not multiple] Boeing 707 aircraft was analyzed during the design stage of the WTC towers. However, NIST investigators were unable to locate any documentation of the criteria and method used in the impact analysis and, therefore, were unable to verify the assertion that “… such collision would result in only local damage which could not cause collapse or substantial damage to the building.…”

The capability to conduct rigorous simulations of the aircraft impact, the growth and spread of the ensuing fires, and the effects of fires on the structure is a recent development. Since the approach to structural modeling was developed for the NIST WTC investigation, the technical capability available to the PANYNJ and its consultants and contactors to perform such analyses in the 1960s would have been quite limited in comparison to the capabilities brought to bear in the NIST investigation.

The damage from the impact of a Boeing 767 aircraft (which is about 20 percent bigger than a Boeing 707) into each tower is well documented in NCSTAR 1-2. The massive damage was caused by the large mass of the aircraft, their high speed and momentum, which severed the relatively light steel of the exterior columns on the impact floors. The results of the NIST impact analyses matched well with observations (from photos and videos and analysis of recovered WTC steel) of exterior damage and of the amount and location of debris exiting from the buildings. This agreement supports the premise that the structural damage to the towers was due to the aircraft impact and not to any alternative forces.

http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_12_2007.htm
 2.  Were the basic principles of conservation of momentum and energy satisfied in NIST’s analysis of the structural response of the towers to the aircraft impact and the fires?

Yes.  The basic principles of conservation of momentum and conservation of energy were satisfied in these analyses.   

In the case of the aircraft impact analyses, which involved a moving aircraft (velocity) and an initially stationary building, the analysis did, indeed, account for conservation of momentum and energy (kinetic energy, strain energy).

After each tower had finished oscillating from the aircraft impact, the subsequent degradation of the structure involved only minute (essentially zero) velocities.  Thus, a static analysis of the structural response and collapse initiation was appropriate.  Since the velocities were zero and since momentum is equal to mass times velocity, the momentum terms also equaled zero and therefore dropped out of the governing equations.  The analyses accounted for conservation of energy.


I could give a crap aout your CT angle.
Z

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Re: The truth behind 9/11 - From the engineering viewpoint.
« Reply #36 on: March 01, 2009, 11:52:43 PM »
Where was NORAD for 45mins while other planes were on target to pentagon and such.?   A dozen Ironies occured that day and before.

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Re: The truth behind 9/11 - From the engineering viewpoint.
« Reply #37 on: March 01, 2009, 11:53:36 PM »
I have.
I also read the NIST report and FEMA report and what the ASCE had to say on the matter.
 Here is a little snippet from the NIST faqs.


http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm

1.  If the World Trade Center (WTC) towers were designed to withstand multiple impacts by Boeing 707 aircraft, why did the impact of individual 767s cause so much damage?

As stated in Section 5.3.2 of NIST NCSTAR 1, a document from the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey (PANYNJ) indicated that the impact of a [single, not multiple] Boeing 707 aircraft was analyzed during the design stage of the WTC towers. However, NIST investigators were unable to locate any documentation of the criteria and method used in the impact analysis and, therefore, were unable to verify the assertion that “… such collision would result in only local damage which could not cause collapse or substantial damage to the building.…”

The capability to conduct rigorous simulations of the aircraft impact, the growth and spread of the ensuing fires, and the effects of fires on the structure is a recent development. Since the approach to structural modeling was developed for the NIST WTC investigation, the technical capability available to the PANYNJ and its consultants and contactors to perform such analyses in the 1960s would have been quite limited in comparison to the capabilities brought to bear in the NIST investigation.

The damage from the impact of a Boeing 767 aircraft (which is about 20 percent bigger than a Boeing 707) into each tower is well documented in NCSTAR 1-2. The massive damage was caused by the large mass of the aircraft, their high speed and momentum, which severed the relatively light steel of the exterior columns on the impact floors. The results of the NIST impact analyses matched well with observations (from photos and videos and analysis of recovered WTC steel) of exterior damage and of the amount and location of debris exiting from the buildings. This agreement supports the premise that the structural damage to the towers was due to the aircraft impact and not to any alternative forces.

http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_12_2007.htm
 2.  Were the basic principles of conservation of momentum and energy satisfied in NIST’s analysis of the structural response of the towers to the aircraft impact and the fires?

Yes.  The basic principles of conservation of momentum and conservation of energy were satisfied in these analyses.   

In the case of the aircraft impact analyses, which involved a moving aircraft (velocity) and an initially stationary building, the analysis did, indeed, account for conservation of momentum and energy (kinetic energy, strain energy).

After each tower had finished oscillating from the aircraft impact, the subsequent degradation of the structure involved only minute (essentially zero) velocities.  Thus, a static analysis of the structural response and collapse initiation was appropriate.  Since the velocities were zero and since momentum is equal to mass times velocity, the momentum terms also equaled zero and therefore dropped out of the governing equations.  The analyses accounted for conservation of energy.


I could give a crap aout your CT angle.


You and your loony science....just say that Bush did it and smile reveling a missing teeth like our getbig experts  ;D

Eisenherz

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Re: The truth behind 9/11 - From the engineering viewpoint.
« Reply #38 on: March 02, 2009, 01:04:44 AM »
9/11 was an inside job, now what you gana do about it ?

-Nothing, as always.

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Re: The truth behind 9/11 - From the engineering viewpoint.
« Reply #39 on: March 02, 2009, 05:11:21 AM »
According to 240 Hurricane Katrina and the Giants victory over the patriots in the super bowl two years ago was an inside job also. Apparently the Bush administration became so emboldened after 911, they figured it was time to really show the American people who was boss. Right now Bush's weather machine has the north east snowed in. He did it on purpose so all the stockbrokers on Wall Street miss work and the markets plummet further. Very unpatriotic- he should be trying to help the new administration.

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Re: The truth behind 9/11 - From the engineering viewpoint.
« Reply #40 on: March 02, 2009, 05:59:03 AM »
According to 240 Hurricane Katrina and the Giants victory over the patriots in the super bowl two years ago was an inside job also.


pathetic that you resort to making such shit up.

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Re: The truth behind 9/11 - From the engineering viewpoint.
« Reply #41 on: March 02, 2009, 06:27:22 AM »

pathetic that you resort to making such shit up.

240, do you still entertain the idea that the planes were a sophisticated hologram?
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Re: The truth behind 9/11 - From the engineering viewpoint.
« Reply #42 on: March 02, 2009, 06:50:04 AM »
240, do you still entertain the idea that the planes were a sophisticated hologram?

I entertain many ideas.   I like to think about what it would feel like to experience a few of the Victoria Secret girls holding a D s'ing contest, with me as the judge. 

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Re: The truth behind 9/11 - From the engineering viewpoint.
« Reply #43 on: March 02, 2009, 07:33:02 AM »


FF to 1:00 and see how easy it is to shape hot metal.

Now also keep in mind that the columns were hit by a freaking giant plane at almost Mach 1 & that they have 20-30 floors on top of them (I think they produce a little more pressure than a guy with a hammer).


Wow...that was hard....a whole 1 minute of trying to look into it by using metallurgical propertires instead of flip flopping crazy CT's and dreaming up aliens digging under the foundations.

Take care  ;)



MACH 1...um...Don't you think you are EXAGGERATING WAAAAAAY TOO MUCH?? Mach one is about 750+ MPH the plane was traveling at 450 according to the scientist and FAA. A far cry from MACH !. Nonetheless I will agree that a plane crashing into the building, which it was designed to handle multiple times over, will NOT cause it to fall down. And since plane fuel DOES NOT explode it would not have caused those fireballs. Also enough people rushing out of the building spoke of explosions happening all over the building...even the firemen spoke of avalanches of explosions racing through the building.
C

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Re: The truth behind 9/11 - From the engineering viewpoint.
« Reply #44 on: March 02, 2009, 08:51:30 AM »
MACH 1...um...Don't you think you are EXAGGERATING WAAAAAAY TOO MUCH?? Mach one is about 750+ MPH the plane was traveling at 450 according to the scientist and FAA. A far cry from MACH !. Nonetheless I will agree that a plane crashing into the building, which it was designed to handle multiple times over, will NOT cause it to fall down. And since plane fuel DOES NOT explode it would not have caused those fireballs. Also enough people rushing out of the building spoke of explosions happening all over the building...even the firemen spoke of avalanches of explosions racing through the building.

Cruise speed of a 757 is 530mile=0.8Mach, I assume it was going full throttle and diving into the building.
I don't know the exact speed it hit the building but I remember hearing close to Mach 1 for the one that hit the Pentagon.

SAMSON123

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Re: The truth behind 9/11 - From the engineering viewpoint.
« Reply #45 on: March 02, 2009, 08:56:21 AM »
Cruise speed of a 757 is 530mile=0.8Mach, I assume it was going full throttle and diving into the building.
I don't know the exact speed it hit the building but I remember hearing close to Mach 1 for the one that hit the Pentagon.

Don't you know a Patriot Missile hit the Pentagon

The 737 that hit the WTC was going 450 MPH according to the FAA and investigators

Mach is a term used to describe jet fighter speeds...NOT COMMERCIAL AIRLINERS which cruise in the 400 to 500 MPH range...again a far cry from the 750+ MPH needed for MACH !
C

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Re: The truth behind 9/11 - From the engineering viewpoint.
« Reply #46 on: March 02, 2009, 09:00:34 AM »
I don't know the exact speed it hit the building but I remember hearing close to Mach 1 for the one that hit the Pentagon.

It was down to 400 mph, having just done a 270 degree turn and descent and cruising less than 20 feet amove ground level.

Mach 1 at sea level = 761.2 mph


You're a physicist, huh?  ;)

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Re: The truth behind 9/11 - From the engineering viewpoint.
« Reply #47 on: March 02, 2009, 08:02:24 PM »
You guys are so looned up    lol

Patriot missiles hitting the pentagon?   HAHAHAHAHAAHAHA


What did you expect something like what a toy airplane looks like when you stick it half way in a cake?

Planes are basically like empty glass eggs filled with gas.  WTF you think will happen if you throw it at a wall and ignite it? 

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Re: The truth behind 9/11 - From the engineering viewpoint.
« Reply #48 on: March 02, 2009, 08:20:06 PM »
ozmo,

it wwill vaporize.  first time ever, sure. 

and that 911 commissioner who said 'the missile that hit the pentagon' in an interview, well, he must have been a lib.

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Re: The truth behind 9/11 - From the engineering viewpoint.
« Reply #49 on: March 02, 2009, 08:28:44 PM »
ozmo,

it wwill vaporize.  first time ever, sure. 

and that 911 commissioner who said 'the missile that hit the pentagon' in an interview, well, he must have been a lib.
can you find that clip 240 if im not mistaken he was referring to the plane being a missle not literally saying a missle hit the pentagon.